SpikesPuppy

We are Eagle Pack fans here- specifically the Natural (purple bag), was great for all the dogs I've fed it too- Dobe X, Newfoundland, Greyhound foster, Kelpie X, Border Terriers, Smooth Collie, Shih Tzu X. We currently use it for our Border Terriers & Collie Smooth it keeps them in beautiful condition. We also add things like Nature's Gift tinned food, sardines, raw egg (whole with the shell crushed), natural yoghurt, scraps etc. Sometimes they just have it plain and they are okay with that (probably because they know if they don't eat it, they miss out ). However I would recommend one of the Holistic varieties if you only have the one dog to feed (i used it when I just had my 2 terriers but it's a bit too pricey with the amount the collie eats!!). For supermarket foods, if we've run out or can't get to the stock feed store or just want a small bag for some reason, I would use either Optimum or Purina ONE. I would also rather use the Coles brand over Pedigree or Supercoat. Like Ellz, I used to feed Supercoat and was very happy with it until the formula changed I've only fed Advance once when we won a small bag, and had no complaints, I just prefer Eagle Pack as a brand ;) At the end of the day, though- what works for one dog may not work for another. It also depends on what is available to you and what your budget is.

I've always kept my dogs leaner rather than heavy. Though at the moment Caber is looking a bit round Still in great, fit condition but his ribs/pin bones are not as easily felt as I would like them to be (and this is my fault- with Ziva getting extra food atm I feel guilty and slip him a little extra :embarrass: I can still feel his ribs though, but for my preference he needs to lose a little hehe. And compared to many Borders (show & pet) he is definitely not fat

I do the same as SBT123 (table my pups and get them used to handling), as well as the no-nonsense approach. I like to chat to my dog in a happy voice "We're gonna see the vet! Yes!" (okay, I'm a looney ), and if the pup shows any signs of discomfort I reassure it with a calm voice "Don't be silly, the vet wont hurt you" etc. I also like to massage my dog's ears when they are up on the table (always have.... even with those who are perfectly comfortable at the vet), and offer them treats sporadically.

as this would never happen with my chosen breed I think I can safely say I don't have a problem with this in theroy, but not sure what I would think if greyhound pups suddenly had masses of people wanting one. Question for me then would be, am I prepared to risk my pet bitches life to provide these people with a nice, quality pup? The bitch that sleeps on the pillow next to me every night. I am prepared to take the risk to get a pup, for me, to continue on with but for others, not so sure. This is something that I thought of too, and a major reason why I would be reluctant to do it personally (my girl is one up on yours though- she sleeps on my head :rolleyes: ), but I know not every ethical breeder is as emotionally attached to their breeding bitches (ie: some I have spoken to love all their dogs, and often have a couple of heart dogs but their brood bitches they seem to keep a bit of emotional distance from (not at all neglected), maybe because they know the risk to her? I dunno. I cry when my pet fish die!!!). IF puppy farms & large scale breeders were put out of business by laws, what do people think would happen to dog ownership?

Our old house had the backyard parallel to the house (was on 2 blocks- supposed to be 2 units but the owner of the blocks decided to build 1 unit and leave the other block for the backyard)... how does that work??? I will take a photo of our current house/front yard tomorrow, if I owned this place, I would be building a solid fence to enclose the bulk of the yard (but would be leaving the driveway/front door unfenced, and would leave a gap of about 2 metres between the solid fence & the front fence so the meter was still accessible (though one of our meters is in the backyard anyway :rolleyes: ). I would then replace the side fence with a gate, so my dogs could have access to both 'yards' or I could separate them if I chose to. I agree with not leaving dogs in 'regular' front yards unsupervised (low or flimsy fences, unlocked gates etc), and by law there has to be access to your front door anyway But I do think this is overkill. Jessca- Wyndham is Werribee/Hoppers Crossing area which has some very large blocks, some 1/4 acre or more in size. Friends used to have 1 acre 15 minute walk from the train station.

In most cases there is no such thing as 'never'. You may find however that they are very 'selective' about where their bloodlines are used (even if it is only with one or two other breeders)....and they sell the rest of their hard work as quality pets! A few breeders here have posted that their dogs and bloodlines will die with them because they breed purely for themselves and themselves only. Yes, if demand is there you could breed more puppies, but breeding quality is in itself self limiting to an extent as you have to pick and choose what you breed and to whom. To increase supply you need to increase the number of dogs you are breeding from. When selecting these dogs, in order to get more breeding stock, is there enough of the quality you need out there to do this, or do you accept less in the way of quality to get the numbers you need? Does increase in breeding mean a decrease in the overall quality of the population (or a widening of the middle of the quality bell curve as more dogs in the curve are bred)? :D I never said it would be easy I don't mean suddenly increase to a dozen litters a year, I just mean breeders who usually only breed once every 3-4 years to keep a puppy for themselves maybe breeding a quality litter or two purely to go as pets (say, if you have a waiting list or 'return buyers' ) in between their "own" litter Of course, Mother Nature is not always predictable but if you hit on a 'winning combination' of high quality, typey puppies form a particular pairing, is it so bad to try and replicate that for pet purposes? Or breeders who breed their bitch once, then retire her and only breed again when that bitch's daughter is old enough for her own litter etc. Why not, if the quality and the demand for pets is there (responsible homes), breed another litter from the original bitch?

I see what you are saying- but aren't Wheatens popular puppy farm dogs in the USA now? Wouldn't it be better if those who knew what they were doing and were prepared to take lifetime responsibility for the dogs they breed supplied these puppies? I guess though, the good ones will tell unsuitable people exactly that and if someone wants to pup regardless of their suitability they will source one. But look at, for example, the extremely high number of poor quality popular breeds such as Labs, Staffords & Goldens..... if more quality breeders with quality dogs supplied puppies, the general overall quality would rise. Educating people about where to buy a puppy still has a LONG way to go and people genuinely don't know they are doing the wrong thing. I would also imagine that being such an unknown breed here in Australia, the people after Wheatens or Kerries who are also suitable owners are well aware of the lack of availability & are prepared to wait. Yes, they are but we're talking here in Oz. The problem, I suppose with any breed, is quality breeders. Who decides who a quality breeder is? We know but according to Kate Schoeffel, she's a quality breeder. Which is why the ANKC and state CCs need to step up to the plate and show the public why someone who deliberately breeds mongrels is NOT a quality breeder. Some organisation with authority & funding NEEDS to have some examples of what makes a great breeder and the value of socialisation etc. I have seen commercials on the TV for certain puppy farms, rolling meadows, happy fluffy puppies etc. WHY has the ANKC not done something similar??? More breeder/exhibitor vets need to step up and promote their chosen dogs!! IMO there needs to be advertising campaigns giving examples of where to buy a happy, healthy pedigree puppy and maybe a checklist of what to look for when meeting a breeder. There doesn't have to be any comparison to puppy farms, just a simple checklist of things that no dodgy breeder can provide (original copy of health certificates, meeting the parent/s as well as siblings if possible, simple things to be aware of (such as avoiding or making excuses why a dog cannot be viewed, reluctance to discuss the breed/uninterested in the puppy buyer's home etc, neglecting to take the dog back if circumstances change and so on).

How very cool How is Pagan coping with them?

Unless the pup and bloodlines were spectacular, that is too close for me personally. BUT are the brothers full brothers or half-brothers?

I could totally take the Toy Group 2nd place (Peke) home

The professional is the one saying to leave the dog alone until he's finished, that's the problem, and they cost so much to get out in the first instance for other issues as well as this that she cannot afford someone else and is too scared to try anything on her own due to his attitude as she is afraid he may bite. Does she have to give him bones? Is it possible that she give him chicken frames or 'faster' bones in the future?

A water-pistol can actually aggravate a dog further... If it was my dog I would probably just stop giving it bones altogether Mine are all trained from a very young age to drop/hand over anything they have without any aggression (I start by holding the bone as they eat it and offering a treat in exhange), but with an adult dog- especially one you are afraid of, it is IMO a huge risk and without assistance from an experienced person, I would not risk it.

I think this is where the purebred community loses most people. It sounds like you are saying pets are somewhat inferior. When in actual fact making sure there are other motives for breeding ('improving' the breed/maintaining or improving the health of the breed/ensuring the longevity and viability of the genepool well into the future etc etc) is making sure that the pets being produced are a 'superior product' now and into the future. There is a big difference between churning out pets for the pet market with the dogs you have now with that as the only aim, and working with one eye on the future to produce well put together and heathy companions through considered matings not just now but well into the future (whether it is you breeding them or someone else using the results of your work in 10, 20, 50 years time). A breeder doesnt have to show to do this and the ANKC does not demand that a breeder show at all, even though it and other activities such as obedience/agility etc is encouraged (showing a dog(s) can perhaps be seen to have its place in the education of a breeder - but that is for a totally separate discussion. Note that not everyone is out there every weekend showing their dogs! For some being involved in this aspect is cyclical thoughout their life as a breeder). But what of those breeders who never allow their dogs to be used at stud or never sell pups to outside sources on main Register? Are they breaking the CoE by not actually doing anything to improve the breed as a whole, only in their own backyard? I understand this, and in the case of the less common breeds, waiting lists seem to be more easily accepted by someone wanting a family companion puppy. BUT as I posted to Sheridan above- what of the breeds where demand outweighs supply?? Is it such a bad thing to produce quality puppies for these people with no intention of any of them ever impacting the future gene pool or show ring? My breed is gaining popularity and is generally, a fairly easy dog to get along with (although you need to accept it's terrier personality), and I have had to turn down several puppy enquiries because I don't have enough to go around (and some I know are excellent homes because they already own one or I know them personally or through a friend etc). Unfortunately, with them recently becoming the 10th most popular pedigree dog in the UK, the quality has also declined significantly because the quality breeders were/are unable to keep up with the demand. Physical quality and health have both suffered in the breed in recent years in it's country of origin because of those out to make a quick buck & ignorant owners who want one of these fantastic little dogs. Even here, the number of 'hobby' breeders breeding from lesser quality animals has grown significantly in the short time I have been involved with the breed.

hehe - slightly OT - with Poodles it's 3 weeks! After this, they were moved to the laundry hehe - slightly OT - with Poodles it's 3 weeks! After this, they were moved to the laundry :D Here are mine (there is usually a dog bed (bottom of a PP40 crate) for them to sleep in but I was sitting there lol so took it out) With SOME puppies (espcially Dylan) even the laundry is not "escape-proof" what a cheeky boy

I guess it is how one defines the terminology used... I also think that to combat puppy farms/compete with them, we need more availability of pedigree animals. Not in pet shops or 'on demand' but sometimes I think waiting lists of 2 or more years is bordering on ridiculous unless you really want a specific colour/markings or have plans for breeding etc. I honestly don't know where I will be in 2 years time, or what I'll be doing and if all I wanted was a sound & healthy predictable animal for the kids to grow up with and keep me company while they are at school (hypothetical me :D ), I sure as heck don't want to wait more than a few months!! But with some breeds you have to wait simply because they're not popular breeds. I had to wait only a few months for my previous wheaten but that was because a mating had just been done and I managed to scoot to the top of the waiting list. Others might have to wait longer than that. But the thing is, I don't want wheatens or kerries to be as popular as labs or staffies and I'd rather wait than have that happen. I see what you are saying- but aren't Wheatens popular puppy farm dogs in the USA now? Wouldn't it be better if those who knew what they were doing and were prepared to take lifetime responsibility for the dogs they breed supplied these puppies? I guess though, the good ones will tell unsuitable people exactly that and if someone wants to pup regardless of their suitability they will source one. But look at, for example, the extremely high number of poor quality popular breeds such as Labs, Staffords & Goldens..... if more quality breeders with quality dogs supplied puppies, the general overall quality would rise. Educating people about where to buy a puppy still has a LONG way to go and people genuinely don't know they are doing the wrong thing. I would also imagine that being such an unknown breed here in Australia, the people after Wheatens or Kerries who are also suitable owners are well aware of the lack of availability & are prepared to wait.

He is beautiful, Lolap. I hope he is everything you want. So sorry to hear about the other I too was reading your post.

I guess it is how one defines the terminology used... I also think that to combat puppy farms/compete with them, we need more availability of pedigree animals. Not in pet shops or 'on demand' but sometimes I think waiting lists of 2 or more years is bordering on ridiculous unless you really want a specific colour/markings or have plans for breeding etc. I honestly don't know where I will be in 2 years time, or what I'll be doing and if all I wanted was a sound & healthy predictable animal for the kids to grow up with and keep me company while they are at school (hypothetical me :D ), I sure as heck don't want to wait more than a few months!!

LOVE the vetbed SO EASY to wash. We don't have a dryer, so if the weather is too bad to hang it out on the line (preferred as it gets the sunshine on it to kill any bugs), I just put it on a spin cycle after it's been washed and then hang it over the shower frame. It's dry in about 10 minutes after that I will be purchasing more soon as I would now like to use it in the dog's PP40s and home crates etc. Excellent product :D

Ahhhhhhhh I didn't think of that! It's possible (now, where's that winning lotto ticket!!). The fact that I have accom. in NYC makes it that much cheaper & easier. there would certainly be plenty of BTs for you to watch! Indeed I think I would have a BT overload

This is what I don't understand. Why?? If the pups are all well conformed, have typical breed temperaments & good health- what does it matter if they enter a show ring or not? (no, I don't want to do this myself FTR, and I have seen some dreadful results from 'pet only' matings, but this is because the person breeding them is motivated by greed and nothing else). Say you have one litter, you keep a pup to go on with but then repeat that (breed-standard successful) mating every second season or so (pending bitch health & condition, your time to socialise pups etc) a further 2 or 3 times, with no intention of selling anything other than pets to the many excellent homes out their wanting top notch examples of your breed?

I think that should start with shattering the fallacy that breeding to improve the standard and to provide the next generation of the breed is somehow incompatible with breeding family companions. If you want a scientific basis for that then the UNQ study is the place to start. Most of the breeding dogs I know are family companions too. The same cannot be said for those dogs unfortunate enough to be owned by "commercial breeders". If your breeding dogs spend their lives in sheds and paddocks, how would you know what their temperament is really like anyway? I agree!! Sorry, I didn't realise that sounded as if I thought the two were incompatible- I purely meant that people should be able to breed a litter without any intention of retaining a puppy for themselves or to go to a show home if they wish to do so carefully & responsibly.

That sucks, Sheridan!! I'm sure it would get a great turnout! I'm so disappointed now, and none of the club committee can attend so there probably wont be any BTs there now Funny how we found out though- was discussing our club's stand at the event when my mum turned up to the committee meeting and mentioned the change of venue. So another member whipped our her phone and googled to get the exact address (as mum could not remember), and that's when we learnt that the date had changed as well!! I am so bummed as I have never been, but mum went last year and told me how awesome it was & it was to be Ziva's first show after her litter

Rebanne & Poodlefan- I agree with everything you both said. I've been on the committee of the BT club for the past 5 years so I know exactly how difficult it is etc. But I guess, it saddens me to think that *any* breed club will stigmatise a proud dog owner (who, let's face it- if they have taken the time to seek out and contact the breed club they can't be that bad??) just because of where they got their dog from (like I said, I've been on the receiving end of this). I certainly don't agree with non-members getting the benefits that members do, but I guess I see it from both sides- if the club is not offering something to you, as a pet owner, why would you spend that money? I also agree with pet owners joining the committee but I imagine in a larger club (such as the Collie Club), there would be a bit of a tussle for spots on the general committee, and a pet owner, especially a novice pet owner, may not be voted in or accepted onto the committee. We have one pet member on our committee this year The rest are breeders/exhibitors or sports members. I personally have found the Collie club to be excellent and very welcoming and they put on a great deal of events for everybody throughout the year (including members' & breed comps, the Fun Days as well as running breed stands and having the rescue section), but they have the numbers to do so. The Border club tries and mostly do a good job but we just don't have enough resources to do more, and yes, it is frustrating. As for puppy farms, I've said it before but I still believe we, as pedigree dog fanciers, need to focus solely on our own dogs and promoting & improving them & their image without worrying about what the unethical folk are doing. Yes, it sucks & it hurts but the ONLY WAY we will win and keep our pedigree animals will be if we can show the public exactly why they are better. I got a great puppy enquiry the other day- when discussing why they wanted a BT (after their beloved x breed rescue dog passed away), they cited predictable temperament (having young children), predictable size & coat type and the HEALTH predictability. I had to supress a squeal of excitement- all is not lost The one and only reason I can see for Designer Dogs and puppy farms success is the publicity they have gotten and the misinformation given out about them (hybrid vigour, low or no shedding, perfect combination with all the good points and no negatives about either breed etc). But we have one up on these folk- we are able to sell our dogs by telling the TRUTH and being HONEST about their traits, coat type and to a large degree, health!! And within our own community, we need to IMO remove the stigma attached to breeding for the companion market. Some will disagree and at the end of the day, it's what you want to do with your own dogs but as long as it's done within health and CoE guidelines and the homes are THERE I think more breeders need to be able to breed a litter of quality pets if they feel they can/want to. I know some breeders already do this, but they are often looked down upon as wannabe puppy farmers or inferior breeders. But why??? What is so wrong about providing responsible people with quality, true to the standard & healthy, happy well socialised pets????? I know technically it's against the CoE (breeding only to improve the breed etc), but I don't believe it should be.

Ahhhhhhhh I didn't think of that! It's possible (now, where's that winning lotto ticket!!). The fact that I have accom. in NYC makes it that much cheaper & easier.

It's amazing how different some of the breeds look (as well as the names and the fact that some breeds are split by colour etc amuses :D ), and the grooming of some of them- whoa!! Great to see the Aussie dogs up there though Can't wait to see the BT BOB. Thinking about heading over next year, have accomodation in NYC, I just worry I'd bore my friend to death