yarracully

different in each state. Not an issue in SA You will get in trouble in Vic if you send your dog to SA and get it de-barked there. I am not sure what happens if you purchase an already de-barked dog and then take it to Vic. No issue providing the dog is debarked in accordance with the law of the state it came from and the dog has never lived in Vic prior to procedure. If however its a dog that has lived in Vic and moved to another state then debarked and moved back then there is a problem. Becomes a concern for those that move around the country due to work transfers etc.

Personally, I think they need to do more dog activities in areas the public go to. In some states (Vic and NSW, don't know about the others) most shows are held at specific venues that the public just don't know about, and have no reason to go to. Big Day Out for Dogs, for example, is held at KCC Park......if they want the general public to be interested, why not hold it in the city or in a suburban park where non-dog people or pet owners go. Cos they don't go to KCC Park. I also think that the ANKC needs to employ a media person with a high profile and get them talking on TV and radio about the benefits of buying pedigree dogs. Get out and flog it, talk about good breeds for families, good breeds for working people, good breeds for sports enthusiasts, good breeds for first time owners, good breeds for agility, obedience, herding, lure coursing and any other dog activity that involves pedigree dogs. Good breeds for first time show people. And how shows work. How they are used to keep the breeds pure and honest and looking like they are supposed to. They need to do the same as what the designer dog voices did for mongrels...they need to make pedigree dogs the preferred option. Perhaps some of this can be done at a more local level. I have often thought that perhaps a board could be set up at shows that explains how a show works. Different groups, order of judging, Age classes etc. This may take some of the confusion out of showing. The ANKC already has a reasonably good explanation on its web site. We just need to put that in front of the public when they do attend shows. I know my father always wondered what people would think when they saw some of the group judgings. For example when a member of Joe Public sees group 4 specials with a Dachsaund lined up along with a wolfhound. if there were some form of information board present it could go a long way to help people understand what is going on. People often show a dislike for things they cannot comprehend. So we need to help them understand. I do agree with using the media the way the designer dog groups do.

Sorry but I just don't agree with your idea of cutting back the number of shows. At least not as it stands. Perhaps with some more thought but as you have already mentioned it I don't see it working in fact I only see it making the decline greater. I don't agree with you at all, but I guess we'll just agree to disagree. Shows, especially in smaller and regional areas are already failing to attract sufficient numbers to make them financially viable which means that club members either have to chip in personally or if they're lucky enough secure some sponsorship (difficult) - those people who are burning themselves out are providing the extra entries after show secretaries literally beg people to enter because they are facing a massive loss (eg Caboolture show in this Show section seeking entries and it's in a metropolitan area where it's a 50k drive for Brisbane people - only 150 by the original advertised date). Declining entries are here already with out system of a multitude of shows and at a point where it's really only the committed people showing anyway. Think of it this way - there are so many shows on throughout the year (yes my minimum travel out of my local area is mostly 300k minimum too), where CH points are available. If the number where the CH points were limited it would not only place more value on the CH title but would increase entries at these eligible shows. It's a juggling act - is it better to have 3 shows or one show with 3 times the entry? It depends on perspective - yours is that you'd rather have the 3 shows, the alternative is greater participation and less expense (time and money) having one show. Since the question was about the declining numbers at shows, the latter is the perspective I have taken. Sorry but you're making an assumption that the decision you'd make in that situation is what everyone else would do. There are lots of people who don't show now because they don't see any value in the CH title because anyone can pretty much get one by going to shows all over if they have to - maybe a lot of those people would join the show scene again if there was a little prestige attached to it. That would be an assumption and not a fact, but every bit as valid as your assumption. Too much of something makes people complacent, reduce supply and it makes it desirable (for most anyway). And another reason many are no longer showing is because they have found other interests that they can participate in on a regular basis. Such that where they may have had three shows per year they now have only one (using your example) in the meantime they have moved to other interests and so no longer show. Once someone turns away from the showring it is almost impossible to get them to come back. Hence my reason for my perspective. If you cut the number of shows there is more reason for people to move onto other interests and therefore leave the ring and not return. I know of a few in my area that used to show when we used to have four shows a year. They still have their dogs. But when there are no shows they got involved in other interests and now their dogs spend all their time on the couch. WHen asked why they don't show they have said they couldn't be bothered only showing a few times a year. They rather do their other interest which they can do every weekend or whatever it is. You may think of it as an assumption. My view point is based on what I have seen in other sports. There are many instances where participation has dropped (Not just in showing) and its because of lack of interest. And this is created from lack of opportunity. Its the same pattern. Locally a womens softball comp here is under threat as they can't get enough teams. They are struggling to get two teams together. WHen you speak to some of the former players its the same story. During the break many got involved in other things and now they are no longer interested in going back. Cutting the number of shows would create the same problem. If Caboolture is struggling to get entries within Brisbane this tells me there could be another reason why people are not entering. What other shows are on at the same time and how close are they. Could it be that people are too busy? I'll give you a reason why some people may not have entered Caboolture. I don't know if QLD has a heat policy. Most other states do. At our recent show many people did not enter as they didn't want to take a chance on the weather being too hot and the heat policy invoked. This would have meant that they would lose their entry money and travelled here for nothing. More expense many can't afford to lose. Might seem ridiculous but can you afford to travel 500 or 600 k's and then have a show canceled and you lose your entry fee as well as what it cost to get there. The day before our show our temp was 1 degree off the point at which the hot weather policy kicks in. On the actual show day it was much cooler. But we had a number of people that had entered ring up on the friday and withdraw their dogs as they were not going to travel here with hot temps around. Cutting the number of shows isn't going to prevent that. Since this topic has started I have contacted many I know that are not on this list and mostly they all come back with costs being a deciding factor in when and where they show. Its the same with me, closely followed by the time of year. I still feel that reducing the number of shows isn't the answer. We have already had a few clubs fold and shows have been lost as a result but the numbers are still declining. If reducing the number of shows is to work then the folding of the clubs and reductions of shows we have already had over the last ten years should have had an affect on the decline. Yet the decline continues. So we need to look elsewhere

Sorry but I just don't agree with your idea of cutting back the number of shows. At least not as it stands. Perhaps with some more thought but as you have already mentioned it I don't see it working in fact I only see it making the decline greater.

Why have less shows. This would only cause more people to turn away from showing altogether. If there are less shows in your area would you honestly keep showing or would you look for something else to do as a hobby. We only have three shows a year here. At that rate it is hard to even justify doing these shows. In order to stay interested we travel away a bit for shows. If we didn't travel then I wouldn't even bother with showing at all. Local shows simply arent enough to justify. Now while that may not be the situation in other areas that is how it is here. If people are feeling "burnt out" then they should simply give themselves a break. Why do we have to lose a few shows simply because some people cant be responsible and miss a few shows of their own accord. I see no reason why a local show should be cancelled because some one else is burnt out. No one holds a gun to their head and forces them to enter every show thats on. They choose to enter the show. If they want a break they can have one, but not at the expense of others that want to show.

We have found that there are quite a few judges that simply refuse to travel to country areas to judge. On the other side of the coin there are some judges that will travel and judge and do it for next to nothing. We have been lucky recently in that one judge paid their own travel costs and then donated their judging fee back to the club. Must add this is a small country club that struggles to break even at nearly every show it has

I agree with Steve on this. Actually it goes a long way as to why there are so many dogs in shelters etc. The people get the dog then as soon as circumstances change (As they do in everyones life) simply offload the dog. I once sold a pup to some people that lived nearby. A few months later I saw a pup of one of my breeds advertised as a purebreed in a local garage sale.It was the one that I bred. The reason for selling it -"it gets out of the yard through a hole in the fence" so rather than fix the hole it was easier to get rid of the dog. These people have since gotten another dog anyway. I really think that within modern society there are many that don't seem to understand the meaning of responsibility. I work on the theory that when you get a dog you are responsibile for it for life- not just until it becomes too difficult. To the extent that I have refused a transfer and promotion at work simply because I wouldn't be able to relocate with all my dogs- I could only take a few and I would have been over the council limit by two dogs within the council area I was to move too. Because of those extra two dogs I didn't take the promo. I decision I have not once regretted. Although there are many breeders that will take a pup back or assist with rehoming there is no obligation. Breeders have lives too and are not here to clean up after everyone elses situations and whims. Its the dog owners that have changed circumstance not the breeders, therefore its the owners problem not the breeders. The owners circumstances changed its up to them to make the arrangements. Flame me if you like but as far as I'm concerned its about time some people grew up and were accountable for their actions. I agree with what you say. Everyone should be held accountable for their responsiblities. However that said, as a Cavalier Breeder myself it would have been nice if the breeder of these dogs had a least directed the owner who needed to surrender her dogs to "Cavalier Rescue" via the Cavalier King Charles Spaniel Club of Victoria. That's not going to be too much of an ask is it? Maybe it isn't too much too ask. For all we know it may be a backyard breeder that doesn't know of the existence of the CKCSC of Vic. Or perhaps this was suggested to the owners but not mentioned as it doesn't suit them as an alternative. In my previous post I mentioned a pup I bred. I went to look at getting this pup back but the people wanted more than they paid for it. Instead I sent someone around that was interested and they got it for a lot less. These people thought that they would get extra money from me simply because I originally bred the dog. I had advised them when they got it that if they couldn't keep it i would take it back but I am not going to allow someone to profit from stupidity. Maybe that is why the breeder of these cavs is not able to help. However I still feel that if people accepted responsibility for their actions there would be no need for any breed rescue organisations. Or at least not as much is there currently seems to be. Perhaps there is some merit in the concept of testing people before they get a pup and having a licence to own a dog. I don't really agree with the extra laws and crap but it might go a way to preventing these situations. Further it gets me that this thread has turned into a "Bash The Breeder" when the reality is none of this is the breeders fault and no-one has heard the "Breeders" side or circumstance. Either way I still feel this is not the breeders fault and so the blame should not be directed back to them.

I agree with Steve on this. Actually it goes a long way as to why there are so many dogs in shelters etc. The people get the dog then as soon as circumstances change (As they do in everyones life) simply offload the dog. I once sold a pup to some people that lived nearby. A few months later I saw a pup of one of my breeds advertised as a purebreed in a local garage sale.It was the one that I bred. The reason for selling it -"it gets out of the yard through a hole in the fence" so rather than fix the hole it was easier to get rid of the dog. These people have since gotten another dog anyway. I really think that within modern society there are many that don't seem to understand the meaning of responsibility. I work on the theory that when you get a dog you are responsibile for it for life- not just until it becomes too difficult. To the extent that I have refused a transfer and promotion at work simply because I wouldn't be able to relocate with all my dogs- I could only take a few and I would have been over the council limit by two dogs within the council area I was to move too. Because of those extra two dogs I didn't take the promo. I decision I have not once regretted. Although there are many breeders that will take a pup back or assist with rehoming there is no obligation. Breeders have lives too and are not here to clean up after everyone elses situations and whims. Its the dog owners that have changed circumstance not the breeders, therefore its the owners problem not the breeders. The owners circumstances changed its up to them to make the arrangements. Flame me if you like but as far as I'm concerned its about time some people grew up and were accountable for their actions.

It is quite easy to see why the dog world can never be united in any subject other than ones' own self interest when comments are made that show an obvious disregard for fellow exhibitors. I can only begin to imagine the uproar if I took my full in season bitch onto a ground being used for obedience etc.Apart from the obvious problems caused by both actions I would like to think that we would all show some consideration to fellow dog people. Then maybe Ive' been bought up wrong. Yes but Obedience schedules and rules all state that a bitch in Oestrus can not be present. No such ruling for conformation shows. At the shows I go to there is. The obedience is around 20 metres from the show rings. While they ask people not to take their bitches into the areas roped off, they can and do walk all around the area toileting dogs. They are male and female and I am quite sure there could be bitches in seaon amongst them. All the obedience schedules I have seen have said no bitches in oestrus. Even had vets check them at one weekend in SA. But never seen the rule on a confirmation schedule and never seen a dog vet checked at a confirmation show. We have a show weekend coming up soon with three shows. At the same weekend the local obedience club is also having a three trial weekend at another oval. We were looking at combining the two clubs for the one weekend as it could benefit both events but for this very reason we didn't

It is quite easy to see why the dog world can never be united in any subject other than ones' own self interest when comments are made that show an obvious disregard for fellow exhibitors. I can only begin to imagine the uproar if I took my full in season bitch onto a ground being used for obedience etc.Apart from the obvious problems caused by both actions I would like to think that we would all show some consideration to fellow dog people. Then maybe Ive' been bought up wrong. Yes but Obedience schedules and rules all state that a bitch in Oestrus can not be present. No such ruling for conformation shows. Another thing is many of the shows in our area are usually held on public ovals where general public quite often let their dogs run offlead. Even while a show is in progress. As such its impossible to stop bitches in season being on the grounds either during or before a show. I have travelled with upto thirteen dogs in a trailer last weekend- 4 are entire males. There were two bitches in season also in the trailer and each night there was not a peep out of any of them. It was not by choice but it was the only option available under the circumstances. But then I do use certain additions to their food which helps mask the scent of a bitch in season

Never had a problem. We had two come from the same breeder but different litters. They came down by air from QLD in the same crate at 9 weeks old and have never really been out of each others sight since but never a problem mating them.

On your first point we have once had a judge halt judging and make the ring wait while the went away and read the standard for our breed before returning to actually judge. Most of the others waiting got a bit vocal but personally I am glad they did it as it meant we knew our dogs were being judged correctly. As for distance we only have 3 shows locally each year. As such we regularly have to travel between 3 to 4.5 hours for a show. Occassionaly we even travel upto 13 hours one way for a show. However I expect the judge to not be aware of where I have travelled from. The only way a judge would be aware how far an exhibitor has travelled is if the exhibitor actually told the judge. This is more a fault of the exhibitor not the judge.

I'm no judge but we do quite often come under judges that were given their licence before our breed was recognised. As such we quite often get judges asking us what they should put up or even admitting they don't know what to look for. Although this does not apply to only new breeds. There are a few breeds where the standards have been changed over the years and many judges still judging to the original standard and not the correct one. A bit like the royal adelaide show 2 years ago where entire breeds were refused challenges because the judge was judging to the standard of his country and not the Australian standard

Once a dog acheives its Aust Ch title many think there is no point going on. This gets worse if you live in an area where councils limit the number of dogs someone can have. I know of some that have titled their dog and are not able to get another dog until the ones they have have passed away. This can put some out for many years. Cost; many exhibitors are on a pension or low income and traveling to shows gets very expensive especially with fuel and accomodation costs. I also think that the lack of judging accountability causes a few people to lose interest. I personally would like to see a system where a dog is judged against a points sheet. And then this sheet could be made available so the exhibitor could see why their dog didn't get put up. This would also go a long way towards eliminating the face judging or payback judging. There are many other competitions where each individual entry is judged against a set sheet of points. While on the matter of judges. We are one of the last (more often the last) breed in our group. I really get annoyed when a judge calls a class winner or even group winner when not all dogs have entered the ring. I have seen this occur to my neice once about 5 years ago. I bought a dog for her to show and at her first show she only took one step into the ring and the judge called his winner. The judge didn't even look around at her dog or wait for her to join the lineup. My neice has not shown since. She was shattered by this one lack of consideration. THis has happened to me a few times but when it does I speak up about it. Another thing to consider is the way some are treated at the shows and not just by other exhibitors. An example is a few years back we travelled for six hours to a show being held in January (Hot weather- very hot in our area) When we arrived we were not allowed to start setting up even though others were already doing so, and we were not allowed to get our dogs out to cool off. The attitude of the show secretary (who obviously enjoyed the power of the position) was very abrupt and rude. As a result I stated then and there I would not go back and I haven't. I think its time showing used an analogy that gets used in small business. If you want to survive you look after your customers. If you do them wrong you can't complain when they won't support you

So get rid of the 25 point BOB at All breed shows but accept 25 point BIS at Specialties Then you get back to the issue of "What about breeds that don't have a specialty" which you raised the issue of in a previous post

If you remove the 25 point breed challenge you automatically remove the specialty shows. A win at a specialty show is equal to a breed challenge. So that if you win a specialty show with 100 entries as far as the requirements are concerned that is the same as a 25 point breed challenge. A win at a specialty show does not equal a win at an all breeds show. (As it currently stands)

This was raised in other areas before when the rule was changed and as it was pointed out there are some breeds that do not have a specialty. If that was the reason it was not included is something I am not aware of.But it is something to consider. Furthermore you have the problem of a breed where there is no specialist judge so therefore a breed specialty doesn't carry the same prestige as it could or should.

Problem is Poodlefan, as both you and I know, the system is supposed to be about what dog matches a predefined standard. At no point is it possible to use a dog show as a measure of a dogs reproductive ability. There are many dogs running around the show ring that can not produce good specimans of the breed. There are also equally many dogs that do not do well in the ring but can throw excellant progeny. I have a few of each example here. Furthermore there are many cases where a person may have an excellant example of a breed but may not be able to breed from that dog for reasons not related to teh actual dog. (Council limits on number of dogs etc.) Personally, and I know I have said it before, I would prefer to return to the system where points awarded were breed based and not group or in show based. Its all about improving the chosen breed. Comparing them to other breeds should not be involved.

Hi Missymoo and thanks for asking. She seems to be holding her own. She has been to the vets. I dug her out of her hidey hole yesterday after work and gave her a quick bath before taking her out. As such we had to wait for here to dry as the vet wouldn't give her an injection unless she was dry. She had an AB injection yesterday. Another again this morning and is about to go out for another this afternoon. She does seem a bit more herself. She still hasn't eaten yet but she is drinking and keeping the water down and is more alert than she was yesterday morning when she seemed to vomit as soon as she drank. Vet says its a form of Gastro going around in the area. Apprently there have been a few here with it lately. For now she is confined to the laundry away from the other dogs and seems to be settling down.

Would be a bit hard for the person on the bike to claim the dog lashed out it him if the handler of the dog as any form of injury to backup that the rider it the handler. Scrap-cuts-bruising etc. WHat the drunk on the bike has done is a hit and run. SAme as in a motor vehicle if an accident has occured and any injuries sustained then details must be exchanged and it must be reported. Now if the drunk on the bike did not provide details then they have committed a hit and run. (Actually its called leaving the scene of an accident) A person in charge of any form of vehicle is subject to the same ruling of blood alcohol. Thats regardless of a car, motorcycle, bicycle, scooter, or even a horse and cart. Furthermore unless the person holding the dog was standing on a roadway then its quite possible the bike rider may have also been riding on an illegal thoroughfare. Also was the rider wearing a helmet. Its quite likely that they will be in breach of more laws than they may be aware of. I wouldn't be too worried about it. If the idiot was to report it I would insist on it being properly investigated by the police as the rider may well find himself in quite a lot of trouble. Reality is that by the time they sobered up they probably wouldn't remember anything anyway. Chances are if the rider is known to others in the area to ride around drunk etc. then chances are police probably already know about them too. As for dog snapping that should be seen as a provoked attack. Now not sure about laws in your state but here if a dog is provoked into attacking that does not mean the dog is declared dangerous. If the dog had just attacked as he was riding sensibly by that would be another matter. However the dog in this instance is reacting to what it sees as an attack and as such is defending itself and its pack leader (you)

Just wondering if anyone can help. I have a four and a half month old pup who yesterday and today refuses to eat. Now my thoughts were that she is just teething. she is about that age and still has her pup teeth so this is disticntly possible. But I am a bit concerned. In the past with all my others they don't go off of their food as much as this one has. Has anyone else had this occur? I have tried soft food to tempt her and have even tried mashed sardines. but not interested. She does growl at the others if they come near the food but just isn't eating it herself? Any thoughts welcomed. Also those that have had this before any idea on how long this is likely to occur?

Hint - only water a cactus once a month. Yarracully - I beleive you've responded to a nasty work of fiction. Probably right. But I was just curious how theyed respond if at all.

So are you saying that you are a breeder? Are you registered with your state canine council? If the answer to these are yes on both counts then surely you must realise the postion the breeder of your dog is in and why they have such a clause in their agreement I have such a clause in our contracts but I put it there to help protect any pups I breed from ending up in the hands of people similar to the OP

I must be doing something wrong. Of all the judges I know that I have entered under not one has ever put one of my dogs up. I do better under judges I don't know than under the ones I do.

Just thought I would let you know of my experience with ASAP labs. I am quite pleased with them. I sent a buccal swab off to them a week and a half ago (22/8/2011) by express post. They emailed to me that they had recieved it on the 1/9/2011. Today the emailed me (5/9/2011) The results of the test. Now the delay in arriving at their lab is probably Aust Post. I have known entries to take 10 days to go to a Post Box 300 k's away. But to recieve and test and email results in two-three working days to me is great. I was getting a bt worried as it was only after I sent the swab that I found this topic and so I was starting to think I might get caught as some others have claimed. But I am more than happy with the speed of their results.