megan_

Third clean run order has been delivered. I was at work yesterday so I need to pick it up. It arrived 2 days after the second order, even though there was a week inbetween.

I got the silver mesh too- it is huge! Do you think I could put it over the dog's crates to keep them cool at training and trials?

The second order arrived yesterday. When I went to pick it up the lady suggested I bring my car around to the loading bay! The weavers are great. I think they might be a bit short if you had a tall dog, but mine are shorties so we'll be fine.

yip, a few of those ads make my skin crawl.

IMO dogs anywhere near an unfenced road should never be off leash. I prefer unfenced parks (as they attract less idiots) and that means unfenced parks near roads as I'm in the 'burbs. However my boy has an excellent recall. Look at getting the Really Reliable Recall DVD, well worth the money. It could save your dogs life. IMO, most obedience classes don't give people the skills to get a fantastic recall (ie recall from chasing a bunny etc). Some basics: i) Always reward your dog when they recall. Always. With something they enjoy (eg roast chicken). I still do this with my 4 year old dog. ii) Before you let your dog off its leash, get his/her attention. I always play a game with my boy when I unclip the leash. This meant that, whenever I unclip it, it looks to me first. This reduces the chance of him just running off as soon as the leash comes off. iii) At home, get some really nice treats and stand next to your dog. Say "come" and shove a treat into their mouth - they don't have to do anything. Repeat 20+ times over a few days. Then, a few meters away, say come. If they come running, treat, treat treat. Repeat, repeat, repeat. If not, go back to step 1. Then try it in another room and do the same. Then in the garden etc. You should be practicing this hundreds of hundreds of times (not all at the same time! Just once or twice a session). This is called classical condition and your dog will become conditioned to come = I come straight away, without even thinking. iv) When you treat your dog for coming, sometimes give one treat, sometimes give a few (first in rapid succession, then more slowly). This means that, once he comes, he won't run off. Rather, he'll hang around for a bit which is handy if you're recalling him in an emergency. Work on being interesting to your dog so he doesn't see the need to run off to find fun. Do you play tug with him? Goof around with him? Basically, don't be worried about embarrassing yourself in public, run around, play with him, act like an idiot and he'll think you're the bees knees and see no need to find fun with other people.

Why didn't you take her to the pound and put your name on her so she didn't get PTS? not having a go, I'm trying to understand

LOL. Of course heaven forbid teaching the dog to act responsibility. Being responsible means making the right choice even if you might at the moment prefer to do something else. If you never allow that choice, you may well train behavior, but you haven't trained responsibility. Have you even looked into motivation based methods? They are all about choice and getting the dog to choose the right one. Google "It's yer choice" game. Warning: Your dog may have fun playing it.

Steve's methodology is teach the behavior, train the behavior, proof the behavior. It's the same basic methodology that Koehler uses. So you shouldn't have any problem then. I can't speak for Steve but I have consulted him to deal with my DA dog (before you say "hazaaaa, positive methods produce dangerous dogs" she is a puppy farm rescue and has spent most of her life relegated to a small cage, never walked, no name etc). His advice seems very different to what you've been espousing. Most of it is about me, not the dog. It is about building focus and engagement. About giving her predictability. Never once was a correction mentioned. Huski - since you're the only K9Pro person here, let me know if I've broken any rules about talking about our consult!

The dog in the above video did win the trial lol. Perhaps all the other dogs were trained with clickers? Very much doubt it, you'd be hard pressed to find a club that trains the level of fun and engagement that is being talked about here.

whaaaat? It stands to reason that if a dog has fun then it is more likely to want to train and be compliant (because compliance = I get to have fun). Engagement is about a lot more than just looking up at you (reminds me of the people who hold food to their face to teach watch and are convinced their dog is watching them). As the Michael Ellis video explains it is about teaching your dog how you will communicate with him/her and building focus. The rest is just tricks IMO. No one is saying that the dog has fun to the exclusion of everything else. I have a very well mannered boy who is a great family pet and does agility and yes, we have fun together. I have never had to use corrections with him (he is a soft boy and would shut down). He is very focused on me and would be a wreck if I ignored him for a whole week. The Koehler method seems to imply I should do this anyway, regardless of his temperament? II've recently started showing him his tug before an agility run and say "you want this, you gotta work for it" and he's like a jack-in-the-box. Not crazy mal style (I don't have the skills or fitness level to handle one) but he's enthusiastic and focused. One of the reasons I have avoided doing any formal obedience is that the vast majority of clubs are very traditional and most people look like they're at a funeral when they're at a trial. I really don't see the point. FWIW, my dog heels with a lot more enthusiasm and focus that the videos you posted and I trained him heel by accident. I can break into a full sprint and go at a snails pace and he never lags or moves ahead and never loses focus. I don't really see the point of having a dog if you aren't both enjoying the experience? But all of this is way OT, the OP wants to raise a dog that isn't aggressive and, if aggression does get displayed, they want to work with a trainer/behaviourist that has a full bag of tools to help them. They're talking to Steve so they'll get this. I would be very suprised if his program was "ignore the dog, yank, yank, yank"

the operative word is "at times" and of course why the dog is getting the corrections. All corrections aren't equal.

was it cleanrun.com or clickertraining.com/store?

Uta bindel (fci world champ in Obedience) says she *might* give a correction once a month, and that is after the dog has been proofed.

I hope for my financial future they don't. I've placed three orders - each one bugger than the other! I even considered buying stuff for a puppy I hope to get in a year's time, but I've managed to hold off.

fortunately when I was robbed they were decent enough to close the gate behind them.

Agree with BiteMe - there are a fair few stafford breeders that look pretty dodgy to me - it isn't particularly hard to become a registered breeder. Why not pop into the stafford sub-forum and ask for a recommendation there?

It is important to remember that your new dog isn't your old dog. Your old dog had aggression issues and aggression is very complex. Aggression can't be solved via trainers and training methods - you need careful management and behavioural advice. It is a shame that the last person couldn't offer you a solution. Bear in mind though that some dogs just aren't stable (bad breeding, bad luck) and there is nothing that can cure them - they require life long management or PTS. The best way to counter aggression is to: i) Buy a well bred dog ii) Controlled socialisation when it is a pup (lots of positive, happy experiences). There are many of us on this forum that have happy, healthy, well adjusted dogs and we don't have to constantly dish out punishment to get them that way. If you constantly have to correct your dog then rather than dishing out more punishment I'd be asking myself whether I had actually trained the dog properly in a way that *they* understand. Dogs aren't good generalisers and I flinch when people say their dog doesnt' listen to them when they're in a different environment and "ZING" dog is punished. How about teaching the dog in different environments in the first place. When you add aggression into the mix it gets even more complicated. Dog hates kids. Dog reacts at kids. Dog gets correction - that hurts. Dog realises that kids = bad things happen to me = dog hates kids more. That, or in the more dangerous scenario, dog still hates kids but learns not to give a warning bark. Owner thinks dog is cured, dogs stays silent while kids approach. With no warning, dog bites kid. I understand that you want a balanced trainer but Koehler isn't really considered balanced? Even the trainers that I know who use ecollars, check chains etc say that if you aren't rewarding and praising 99% of the time then you need to rethink your strategy.

Thanks BB. Sadly I have over $100 sitting in the cart just to get the little cups. Do we know for sure that the littlies are the right size?

I'm cross about the cups because the poles are meant to be 1"? Given my order has already shipped I'll need to place another order.

I am single, live on my own, work long(ish) hours (I'm away for about 12 hours a day) and I plan on getting a third. Given the breed and breeder that I want, this would most probably be in about a year's time, all going well. I think it is doable, but I strongly believe that it is important to spend at least a few times per week doing things with each dog individually. This not only helps stengthen the bond with you, but it helps develop independant dogs. You never know what the future may hold and I'd hate my dogs to fret if something happened to me and they had to be split up. Remember that the puppy won't be up for the same kind of exercise as the others for a while, so you'll need to be doing extra walks for a while yet. Also, I have one dog with issues so I'd never walk the puppy with her because I wouldn't want the pup to learn bad habits. My next breed will be significantly larger than my current two so I'll need to be able to give them time apart too.

They are what prompted my second order as I only stumbled across them after the first order was placed. Like sheena said, buy some jump cups and you've got budget jumps too (I bought the pvc poles to go across them).

Sometimes dogs don't get along and sometimes a management plan can't work practically. My dogs are my family but if I had to permanently separate them it wouldn't work. I simply wouldn't be able to spend enough time with each and give them the life that I believe a dog deserves. Others are different and deal with the separation, but it isn't for me. Maybe seek a second opinion and then have a good, honest think about whether you can execute a management plan for the rest of their lives. Often things are good for a month or two because we're extra careful then let our guard down then BAM! If you get to the point of rehoming one of your dogs - and sometimes it is easily forgotten that there isn't anything wrong with responsibly rehoming a dog as long as everyone's interests are catered for - you'd need to think about: * who would be a better rehoming prospect (personally, I'd be very wary of rehoming a mastiff x that had been in a number of fights because I'd imagine a lot of undesirables would see this as appealing). * what kind of home would best meet their needs, and vice versa * what kind of home you can provide the dog that stays (ie what is best for their needs too). Good luck. You are in an unenviable situation. I hope they are being kept separated until the situation is resolved?

When I opened my first package is seemed so small. Both the first and second orders are filled with practical things - weavers, jump cups, PVC poles for jumps, puppy shades, water bowls etc. I've now spotted a DVD about dealing with dogs that are fearful of people (I have such a dog...). It has gotten rave reviews and is $75. I could throw in a couple of toys so easily... *reminds self that I want to pay for new fencing too*

huh? If you don't reply to a thread in an hour or two you're a troll??

I think the OP's intentions were good, the execution was lousy. I'd rather focus on how they can execute their aim better. Negative, preachy messages turn people off. Positive ones are far more engaging. Firstly, you have to give a bit of info about yourself and why you're doing this. Then you need to give people some simple, positive instructions on what they can do to help. For example, what about advocating a toy exchange (ie you get one new toy for your dog, donate one old one to a shelter). This is what I do and it leads to a win-win. What about a "donate the toys that you bought that your dog ignores" drive too. All these things still allow people to spoil their pets, but a pet in need gets the benefit of the stuff that is no longer required.