megan_

I sell don't understand if it OS just a tickle why do they stop? Why do the collars have higher settings then? I'm genuinely interested. Cos - you see a lot of clients. How many do you think have timing skill? for those that use or sell them, do you think they should be freely available, or should people have to do a course first? They key phrase that crops up is "if used correctly" but you can buy them on the Internet, whack it on the highest setting to " shut that bloody dog up".

LMSW's perspective: 3 days of hell with a huge bill to pay at the end. Roscoe & Riddick's perspective: We had a nice holiday with the vet nurses. Little B#$T%^#$!. They add years to our lives and then take them away with these shenanigans!

I've used Cosmolo's dogs for that purpose Snook - pity you're in Adelaide. She now stays over at their house when I have visitors stay over (fear aggressive and territorial aren't a good mix when my niece and nephews come to stay) and is happy and comfortable there. Cosmolo's dogs are a dream team when it comes to teaching other dogs. They are all well trained and stable, which makes all the difference. It has helped build confidence in both of us - she gets to see that not all dogs want to jump on her head, and I get to see that she can greet a dog appropriately. I've also attended their basic obedience classes even though Lucy is way beyond that level. This way, she gets to work around me with naughty, distracting dogs and puppies who are safely on leash. Cosmolo ran a practical workshop on dog interactions that I took Lucy to. Even though I consider myself well-versed in dog body-language, I found it informative. Lucy worked really well and when overwhelmed deferred to me (which is a good thing, but I need to build on her "I can look at other dogs and everything will be okay" skills too). I even took her to an agility foundation class try-out in a small enclosed horse arena with 35+ dogs and she worked really, really well for almost 2 hours! Her tail wagged in a nice relaxed manner, she focused and even did off leash stays right next to strangers. The place was very noisy and busy with people walking around all the time. This simply wouldn't have happened 6 months ago - she would have shut down. While she didn't make the cut (they only select 10) she passed my test with flying colours. ETA: Given the results we've had, I'm going to step things up and I've enrolled her at a school that has lots and lots of dogs (Croydon Obedience). It's not that I want her to learn lots of obedience, but it will do her good to work around so many dogs and strange people. I took her for a little look-see on Sunday and she walked around nicely, not the least bit fussed by all the people and noise. I also need to work on the territorial thing. It has gotten much worse since my sister stayed with us for 3 months. They had to be physically separated otherwise Lucy would go on the attack. It hasn't been something that I've focused on because my priority has been being able to take her out in the community safely (happy with this now, has to be managed but we'll keep on trucking) and I just crate her when I get visitors.

Yipee! Maybe doa triple search of the house and yard to make sure the tablets aren't hidden somewhere? That is, actually move furniture around. I always pick up lego after my nephews have visited, but months afterwards I find bits in strange places...

When will owners learn? "Dogs have never left the yard". Could have seen this coming miles away.....

I haven't done recallers. I had to chose between Derret's Ultimate Agility and Recallers and chose the former. I really wish I had done it though. I've got Rough Love so I'll have a look tonight.

There are a few threads in the training thread that explain it well. Some people teach it with a clicker, but I find it too much to click when out-and-about etc. So here's my (most probably incorrect) explanation: Desired End Result: Your dog sees something that excites/arouses/scares him, you say "Look at That" (or whatever you want to say) in a happy calm voice, he looks at you, stays nice and calm and then you give him a treat. In effect you're teaching your dog that looking at exciting/scary this is okay, and if they focus back on you and remain calm then they get a reward. How to teach it: 1. Start off in a low stimulation environment. Home works well. Stand right by them. Wait for them to look at something - anything - and say "Look at that" (in a calm but happy tone, it is meant to be a game) and shove a treat in their mouth straight away. Don't wait for them to look at you, that will come later. Repeat lots and lots (try dozens of times). The key is that they look away then you say it. 2. Test if they get it. Repeat step 1, but wait a second or two until you give them the treat. What happens? Do they look at you? This means they understand the process. If not, go back to step 1. 3. Start to slowly ramp it up. Take it outside and go through step 1 again. Slowly increase the stimulus and make sure you set your dog up for success. IF you are patient this method works really well. I have a FA dog who hasn't reacted for a long time when out-and-about by simply playing this game with her.

Hi All, I'm wanting to add to the games that I play with the dogs, especially ones that help develop control, focus and drive. I'm not talking about trick training, but actual games. Our current list includes: - It's Yer Choice (SG control game) - Finding a hidden target in the house (drive ahead to the target and work independently of me) - Hide and seek (name recognition) - Wrestling (just for fun) Does anyone have any other suggestions?

"Look at That" could be a good game to play with her too.

But surely it is more than "whatever gets results". I know someone who toilet trained their dog by smacking and yelling at them every time the pup made a mistake. It got results, so is it okay?

Well done. I've heard great things about GiDay, the silver poodles are gorgeous.

I'm not a spokesperson in any way, but Delta have always made it very clear that they offer a course to teach people how to be pet dog trainers and run a business servicing that area. They never purport to be able to train service dogs, or serious sporting dogs or law enforcement dogs. Unfortunately many many people choose to enter both the Cert IV and the NDTF Cert III having had no experience with dogs whatsoever. So, ethically, Delta recommends that if you have little experience in applying punishers or little experience with aggression in dogs you should refer the dog on - both for the dog's sake and for the legal implications that we all face these days. It would be irresponsible in the extreme (and potentially very dangerous) to teach trainers how to use punishers through a textbook, or a week long intensive. It takes a genuine feel to know how much force to apply and when - for a good result. They may not practically teach all four quadrants but they definitely cover it - I did the assignment. Of course they are method pushers - as are all dog trainers! :laugh: Everyone pushes the method they feel most comfortable with and gains results for the dogs (and handlers) they teach. They teach a method that is safe, humane, acceptable to many dog owners, and fits the majority of pet dogs living a suburban lifestyle. They have never promised to fix all dogs and all problems. :) Great post tollersowned. I don't necessarily have a problem with people using compulsion where appropriate, however I doubt any training course can teach people how to use it and train others to use it effectively given the time taken to do the course. If someone wants to rehabilitate genuinely aggressive dogs, they're going to require a lot more than the Delta or NDFT course.

For the see saw, the bang game is a really good way of creating value for the bang

Fingers crossed here too.

you can report them to the police - it is a serious criminal offence

DOL does not sell dogs on the internet - ads are placed on the internet. Buying via the internet means you click a button, enter in your credit card and the pup is yours. There is NOTHING wrong with advertising on the internet and it is very different from selling dogs direct via the internet.

LOL check the header - Dogzonline Australia's pure breed dog community Plently of people here have cross breeds and unpapered dogs! You're just not meant to promote cross breeds

No one has EVER said that all breeders are god-like and many people here don't give a hoot about show results - I certainly don't. These ethical pet shop breeders that you talk about, do they health test (not vet check, I mean genetic test) their breeding stock for heritable diseases? Are the dogs hip and elbow scored? Do they know the lines that their animals come from and their pedigree? Do they offer to take the dogs back, even if they are returned years later? If so, I can't see how it would be anything but a loss making business?

Where about is she based? I'd recommend a behaviourist over a trainer. Contact Steve from k9pro about getting the right muzzle - safer for everyone Eta: just saw the location. Contact Steve from k9pro and discuss options

It does when done properly - that is the key. Just razzing the dog up doesn't.

IF a dog attacks when under the control of an adult, that adult is legally accountable, not the owner. If the dog is under the control of a child, then the legal guardian of the dog is held accountable, not the owner. So if a kid walks dogs for $10/hr, a dog runs off and causes an accident, their parents will be held responsible, not the owner of the dog.

It is your dog so he should follow your rules, that said, I wrestle with my two all the time. It has taught them great bite inhibition. I put my fingers in their mouths, make my hands look like prey etc and they have never bitten me. It also gives me a great way to rev them up when we're doing agility or training and I don't have a toy. I literally get them on the floor and we wrestle - a few top competitors that I have spoken too do this with their dogs. That said, the rules are very clear. I start and finish the game (start witha song, finish with "finish"). They have never mouthed anyone else and have never tried to wrestle them?

Or he just might not have ever seen a remote before and was scared of it. My dog used to be scared of most things - spoons, tiny sticks crunching on the ground, vacuum, broom, her bed....because she was kept outside and caged 24/7 for the first few years of her life. I'm pretty sure she was never attacked by a spoon.

I'm with schanuzer on this one. My girl was used for breeding pups at a well known pet shop. She didn't have a name, was never groomed (she is a mini schnauzer so was a ball of knots), was never, ever walked or positively interacted with. She never saw a vet and had ear and eye infections when rescued. She has been out of there for 3 years and still bears the scars. She will most probably never be a normal dog. I'm sure her puppies are wonderful (well, not so sure, she is fear aggressive and they lived in terrible conditions for the first 8 weeks, so who knows?), however, the price that my Lucy paid to give people their cute puppies was FAR too high. You can get a great dog from a petshop or puppy farm - I got my boy from Freedom Kennels before I knew what they were like and he is an amazing dog - however, no ethical breeder would outsource the sale of their pups to a pet shop. No ethical breeder wants their dogs to be living in a glass cage 24/7 having strangers poke and prod at them. No ethical breeder would be happy with the sales process being "you have the money, you get the dog". They want to meet the buyer, find out about them, tell them about the breed, get a "feel" for them etc. They tell buyers that, if things go wrong, they can always return the pup.

TOTW gives mine the most horrific gas / the smell when I came home from work almost made me throw up! Earthborn holistic is much more expensive, but they thrive on it.