megan_

Mine don't do a lot of bitey face. Fergus likes a good old-fashioned game of chasey and Lucy only rarely breaks out into full-on play mode. Fergus does wrestle a lot with me though and mouths my hands (only when I've started the game). He has fantastic inhibition and even play bows when we start! I get on the floor with my face right in his but he never tries bitey face with me. I've noticed the bull breeds seem to do bitey face a lot.

I think the only way to really say one way or the other would be to get hold of some decent surrender data (intakes aren't just "found" dogs, but also surrenders and dogs dumped in holding pens). I know that down here, a major reason for surrendering pets is lack of money to feed them. Another reason (for the SWFs) is that the dogs become matted and the owners can't afford to have them clipped on a regular basis. Needing to eat and have hair clipped aren't faults with the dog. Another common reason is moving house- again, nothing wrong with the dogs. The other obvious question is.. if other open admission shelters/pounds can rehome unclaimed dogs at a much higher rate (while still temp and health testing), what are the RSPCA doing differently to have such a considerable difference in figures? Thanks TSD for the correction. I used second hand info to make my point and it has bitten me in the behind! I'm glad they're incorporating some sensible design and hope the dogs in the holding area get some breathing space too. HA - While I see your point, and I'm playing devil's advocate here, I don't hold much stock in the reasons why people say they are rehoming their dogs. In the circles I run, most people say "I don't have time". They might spend a few hours watching TV, reading etc every night so they do have time. They pick a sociably acceptable reason for dumping their pet (we're all so busy and important these days), they don't list the real reason (eg dog pulls like a steam train so I can't take it on walks, so it has developed bad behaviours etc). Now these aren't the dog's fault - even aggression isn't a dog's fault - but when a dog has developed behaviours like jumping, escaping, mouthing etc and they have been reinforced over many years those behaviours are hard to correct. They take a lot of time and effort. For example, if a dog has got its kicks out of jumping on people for 2 years, a few "ah ah"'s and praise aren't going to change the behaviour. It will take a sustained effort with many, many repetitions for the dog to realise that the pay-off for not jumping is greater than the pay-off for jumping. In my experience it is harder when the dog is smart as they don't just accept the new way of things easily. I don't know of any other open admission pounds or shelters anywhere in my area as the RSPCA has the contract for the vast majority of councils in SE Melbourne. However, even if there were others, the RSPCA is by far the most high profile pound/shelter around and so it stands to reason that it will be the dumping ground of choice for people who don't research where they can drop off their dog. The other shelters might be used by people who are more selective (thereby increasing the chances of the dog having had a stable upbringing, training etc). I'm sure their temp test isn't perfect, but it is something. I'm also certain that simply reading it doesn't give an insight into how dogs are assessed "on the ground" and how they are scored. It doesn't tell us the training and skill set of the assessor. It is a lot better than the pounds and shelters who don't temp test and then use guilt tactics to try and get people to adopt (little spot is sooo scared, all he needs is love and cuddles). Love and cuddles don't rehabilitate dogs. There is so much that needs to be done for dogs in our society - I think they get a pretty raw deal overall. There is limited funds and limited care factor out in the public. I think people who care about dog welfare need to focus their time, money and resources on a specific area that has the most bang-for-buck. Personally, I think we should be focusing on responsible dog ownership and trying to bring about generational cultural change from one where you get a dog for the kids/because you had one when you grew up/you're lonely etc to one where we truly value our companion animals and they are cherished members of our families. They are exercised, both mentally and physically according to their needs and when, for whatever reason, we're unable to care for them we have a system in place where people step up and provide support. The revolving pound door isn't going to bring any of that.

People are allowed to dislike dogs and have cultural beliefs that dogs are dirty. They are not, however, allowed to threaten to kill them. Your Aunt should report the matter to the police, but leave out the bits about other cultures, gloves etc as all of that is perfectly legal - the bit about sending the dogs back to hell isn't.

I am not an apologist for the RSPCA, but I think those numbers are misleading. If they had done a temp test on 100's of dogs out in the community, different breed and in different socio-economic areas and 50% failed then your stat is valid. But that isn't what the statistic represents. It represents 50% of dogs that land up at the RSPCA (which is effectively the pound here in Vic, don't know about NSW). I would assume - and I don't have the data to back me up - that the dogs landing up in the pound and remain unclaimed aren't representative of the total pet population. You can't infer that dogs landing up at the pound are a good representative of the dogs in the community. After all, most dogs in the community don't end up at the pound and remain unclaimed. I think they can do a better job at rehabilitating some dogs. I think they could spend their money far more wisely (fancy new building in Burwood Vic, but the dogs remain in pens that all face each other, for example). However, most dogs adopted from the pound aren't going to experienced owners, with "experienced" meaning people who have a good knowledge of dog behaviour and training and know how to apply behaviour modification techniques, not "owned dogs for 20 years". I meet lots and lots of dog owners at the park, at training, on walks etc and the vast majority wouldn't be able to cope with a dog with issues (eg fear aggression). Most dogs don't go to regular training, they don't have owners who understand body language, they don't get 1 hr + of walking and training every day etc. This means that they need to have stable temperaments, be able to deal with the rough-and-tumble of life, be able to go to a dog park and have an owner who chats with the locals rather than watching them like a hawk etc. This means that there is actually a limited pool of dogs that can be safely rehomed through a pound system. Of course there are many people looking for different dogs (eg sports homes). However, if someone has specific requirements they often are looking for a dog from proven lines, willing to wait years for the right pup to come along and they're not rocking up to the local RSPCA on a Saturday afternoon.

I think Jules' dog developed liver issues later in life? As pers said, he could associate food = pain, bowl = food and therefore show fear towards the bowl. How long do you soak the VAN for? Is the mince pet mince (which would be mostly bone) or actual chicken mince (100& meat)? VAN contains calcium to replace bone, so they shouldn't get bone and VAN at once. If it has bone in it it just might be too gritty for him if he has a sensitive digestive system? Chicken might also be too fatty, have you tried kangaroo?

Well done JulesP's dogs - they went above and beyond. We had a similar experience at agility - fortunately it was my "hey, just chill" Fergus who was with me at the time. A dog was constantly breaking, doing zoomies and harassing him (on the few occasions that she actually got past me) and he just remained in his sit (he was preparing to do his jumps). I would have released him had she got in his face as it isn't fair to ask him to hold a sit while a dog jumps all over him, but even while this dog zoomed back and forth 1m away from him he stayed sitting beautifully. Good boy. Lucy would have told this dog where to go after a minute or two...not that I'd blame her... Good news on hte meds, BC Crazy. My vet gave us some but I haven't used them as Lucy is well controlled and isn't frantic. Stella must be enjoying having a break from fretting.

I'm going to get flamed here but if an animal exhibits aggression because it is scared then it isn't suitable to be rehomed to 99.99% of dog owners. I say that and I have a fear aggressive dog (who is well managed and hasn't displayed it for a long time). I love her to bits but she is not a dog for Joe Average.

I've just got off the phone to them and they insist that the claim has been approved and I'll get the cheque this week! They told me to ignore the letter, but I'll be checking that the invoice they "rejected" has been included in the pay out. I understand that they cover more than most, but I'd really like it if they could be transparent about their payout times. This isn't the first claim for Fergus so they have his full history. The vast majority of people I know who are on PetPlan have waited about 6 weeks for a payout and they are always given one of two excuses for the delay: i) We have a backlog ii) We've just upgraded out IT system (even though this same excuse was used with me 3 years ago). If they said outright that the time was about 6 weeks I wouldn't have a problem with it.

I put in a claim about 6 weeks ago and heard nothing about it, so I rang up on friday and they said the cheque was in the mail. When I got home this evening there was a letter saying the first vet also needed to fill out the paperwork (had initial consult with the regular vet who sent us to hospital, hospital filled out all the forms). I understand that they need vet #1 to fill out the form(only $100 of the $1000 claim relates to vet #1 ) but why did it take them 6 weeks to open the claim and tell me that it is incorrect? Most companies pay out in 2 weeks but they are consistently soooooooo slow. Im also peeved that everything will now be delayed for another 6 weeks and I won't get the rest of the money before then (even though I could have split one claim over two forms right at the start). This after customer service told me my claim had been accepted!! When i made a claim a few years ago they took 8 weeks to pay out even though all the paperwork was in order. I was assured that they were doing a system upgrade at the time and that was the reason for the delay. Now I realise this is their standard timeframe! If it wasn't for exclusions I'd be changing companies on renewal.

My dogs will always be my pets, first and foremost, so I don't want more than 3 at any one time. This is because all my dogs get training (even my girl who doesn't compete) and time with me individually and I just don't think I could fit in more than three. They live in the house with me, so the only need I could see for a run would be if dog # 3 was an escape artist. I'd like an acre in an urban area so that I could set up an agility training ground. The rest would be space for zoomies and a native garden for Lucy to explore. Dog # 3 would be my "sports" dog, primarily for agility. Of course if they didn't like agility we'd do something else, but I'll buy my next dog with agility in mind. Dream breed would be w/l malinous - but money isn't the barrier there, time and training skill are!

Dorry Pheebs - have you tried Dane rescue at all? I think there was someone trying to rehome a Dane in rescue a few weeks back and someone knew an experienced owner looking for an adult Dane. I'll try to find the thread....

There are different rules for different states.

I agree with this 100%. I do this all the time - not just with aggressive dogs, but dogs that are over-friendly, bouncy and don't respond well to other dogs signals that they want to be left alone. I took Fergus to the local off-leash oval last weekend and we were having a good time. We'd only been there for a few minutes when a large cross-breed entered. I could see he was friendly but waaaay too hyper and bouncy. He bounced right over to a lab and wouldn't leave this dog alone. I left even though we'd only been there for a few minutes. He was the kind of dog that could easily hurt my littlie with his over-zealous play. His owner was clearly oblivious that his dog's play style was very rude and a lot of dogs wouldn't appreciate a 30kg dog literally jumping on them. As we were exiting a husky joined in and was also extremely hyper. Fergs and I went for an on leash in an area that was separated by two fences (I'd never walk my dog on leash near off leash dogs). As we were coming back to the car all hell broke loose. The two hyper dogs had gotten too aroused and a fight had broken out. Both owners were in shock and the cross breed owner had the sense to remove his dog. The husky owner just let his dog continue to harass other dogs, including displaying some very predatory behaviour toward a little dog. I'm p*ssed off that I can't give my boy some off leash time to chase his ball, but I'm so glad I left when I did. The thing is it was inevitable that there would be a fight - too many hyper dogs that were very aroused. My boy has good instincts and always manages to avoid the trouble makers, but these dogs were chasing down dogs to play with. He wouldn't have stood a chance. Coupled with the way the husky was "playing" with a small dog, it wouldn't have ended well.

Rather than trying to find the right dog (all you have to go on are pictures and a brief description) I'd focus on trying to find a rescue that you're comfortable with, forming a relationship with them and then waiting for them to get the right dog for you. This is what a lot of rescuers recommend, and yet for all their applications you have to apply for a specific dog...

You can't use one dog as the only evidence to your claim, just as you cant use knowing a doctor to infer what VETS do with drugs. No one is proposing a drugs - only approach, or that drugs cure SA. rather, that when used with an appropriate behavioursl modification program, they can be more effective than behavioursl modification on it's own. However, even if they're equal, they give the poor owner and fog some respite - that must be worth something

I'd try a camomile tea rub - search this forum or PM erny. This has helped many dogs. I would be washing her with anything as even special shampoo can be irritating.

Minimax shy do you sat roo isn't enough? What is this based on? Sail away - there is a VAN thread somewhere here and Bruce answers questions.

Bruce Sykes is a very well respected vet. He has a special mix for puppies. I use VAN for most of their meals, with the occasional addition of sardines. They get raw meaty bones a few times a week (my boy can't handle more than this). These are soft edible bones. Any more bones than this and he can get an upset tummy. I then give them an occasional feed of earthborn holistic for convenience or to use in one of their treat puzzles. Of your dogs are healthy they'll cope as long as you're giving them decent quality food.

VAN is a great quality diet. I don't feed wheat but I do feed some grains. There seems to be a big of misinformation about grains - not all are bad. You can make abig batch of VAN and freeze it or keep it in the fridge for up to three days. I'd feed VAN over the vast majority of dry food.

It would be great if people would just drop it.

you should be able to get samples of the Candidae stuff. They used to sell sample bags of Eartborn for $3 - maybe ask the shop if they still have some.

Try PMing JulesP on this forum - I believe her dog has liver problems too and she is on a similar diet.

Linda - the ones I know DO NOT allow someone to buy the dog then and there. They're in the shop for a few hours to get visibility. Why do you assume they're sold to the first person with the $$$?

Can you lock the fence with another temp fence about a metre away from the real one?

you're making a lot of assumptions about how these RESCUE dogs live. The ones I have seen go in a play pen during the day, then back to their shelter or foster home at night. They aren't at the pet shop full time and they aren't there long term. They aren't sold as other petshops sell dogs - they are just in the store for visibility.