megan_

lilli's dogs are very serious LGD's (ie they protect stock) - very different temps to Labs. The dog may be getting satisfaction from biting the hand, even if it doesn't go away. thereby finding the behaviour rewarding. Not an expert but this behaviour doesn't sound like a lab at all. If I wanted a lab and got this pup I'd be returning it pronto, BYB or not. Not that lab's can't resource guard, but they are mean to be accepting of strangers and an all round happy-go-lucky dog. Not the wording of the standard but you get my drift. If I kept this dog I'd see a vet behaviourist (of which there are very few in Australia) to see the dog as a matter of urgency. Normal vets don't study much behaviour at all. The reactivity might be in its base personality, but it is also being re-inforced EVERY time it reacts. Every day that this goes on it will just get worse. I'd also stop the patting as I don't see the point - who wants to be patted while eating? That said, I take food away from my dogs easily, because I've taught them that they get rewarded that way but I do it on cue ("let mama help"). I wait for them to stop eating (which they do when they hear the cue) and step back, then I take their treat toys and give them the last bits. They also aren't resource guarders by nature, but companion dogs.

Back to the OP.....while I think lavendargirl was a wee bit blunt, it is worth thinking about the consequences (legal and financial) of owning or rehoming a restricted breed, especially one that is entire. It can come back to haunt you years down the track. The other bit of advice I'd give is that, in the interim, while you save for a behaviourist, is to ensure that your place is locked up like Fort Knox and a child leaving a gate open won't = dog gets out. If your dog is territorial and it gets out as someone walks past, it could end in disaster (for the person, your dog and you, as you are legally liable for your dogs actions and can be sued civily). Dogs don't understand that outside the fence boundary isn't their territory. Ensure all gates are padlocked and there are at least 2 doors between your dog and the outside world. I have a territorial mini schnauzer who is too scared to "seal the deal" but my place is well secured with all gates either with padlocks or locked via keys (ie no one can even get to my front door without a key). This means that no one can accidentally let her out or bored kids can't just open the gate. A week after I got the locks installed some drunk kids tried to open the gate - I'm lucky it was padlocked and they didn't stand a chance. SK's idea of crating him while visitors are over is a good idea. However, you need to ensure that it is a very good quality one (and definitely not a soft one) as ABPT's can destroy normal crates. I'd also be putting the crate in a locked room and taking the key so that no curious kid can let him out while you make a cup of tea etc. This might all sound like paranoia however, even though I am very careful with my little girl, we've still had one or two "oopsie" moments when she has gotten out of her crate while I had visitors and run at a kid (in the house, so she was being territorial), all guns a blazing. Fortunately she is small so I could literally lift her up by her collar and the kid's mum blocked her with a chair but you won't be able to do that with your dog. If the kids are talking to the neighborhood kids and he is arking up he should get crated inside. Don't give him opportunities to build up his frustration and be territorial. Barking, fence running etc aren't tolerated in my house and I'm retraining Lucy to see that visitors/passers by = fun times with treats and it is slooooowly making a difference.

There are wubbas up now? Maybe they took them down temporarily while they confirmed that the manufacturer could whip up 1M on short notice?

As in for the next 13 years? :laugh: After all, you can never say a dog is 100% fully trained! They can always learn something new...

What does "keep your dog safe" mean? Lock it indoors and never let it out? Because that is what keeping your dog safe here means - your dog can be destroyed because it fits a certain type - not because it actually does something bad, roams etc. Your neighbour who doesn't like dogs can ring the council and your dog is seized. The dog does not need to be a pitbull to fit the criteria. If it meant "make sure they behave and are controlled" I would 100% agree - and this applies to ALL breeds. But in Victoria it doesn't mean this. Your dog can be seized just by looking like a certain type, even if the dog has impeccable manners and is owned by a responsible owner. Are you really saying that if Cosmolo walks down the road with her dog on leash, sitting politely when people pass by, accepting pats from overzelous kids while staying in a nice sit etc etc and it is seized that she has failed it? Really? That is the stupid thing with these laws, it encourages owners to hide their dogs. Unsocialised dogs of any breed are a REAL threat to the community. ETA: I suggest you read up on the Victorian laws. You seem to think that if your dog does nothing it is safe. Far from it.

M-sass in some countries pedigree staffords are restricted breeds (Ireland I believe). And one more time, the Vic legislation says that if your dog has the characteristics listed on the checklist, then the ONLY way to prove that it isn't a pitbull type is to have pedigree AMSTAFF papers or a vet declaration. Please let us know which vets are willing to declare breed, because most vets won't participate because they don't agree with the legislation. O And once again, the Vic legislation isn't about pitbulls. It is about making a type of dig restricted. I've seen many a lab x staffy that would fit the bill. Are you really suggesting that any bull breed x, regardless of temp or owner, be seized and PTS? will that make our community safer? There is a breed of dog that attends some training sessions that I go to. All the dogs are pedigree. Most people ( experienced trainers who trial) avoid these dogs and won't do any sit/stay exercises near them, even though they don't break ( for fear of their dog being attacked). These dogs have been in skirmishes at every session I've been too. Should we ban them too? After all, when the bullbreeds have gone, the little men could easily move onto this breed..

M-sass in some countries pedigree staffords are restricted breeds (Ireland I believe). And one more time, the Vic legislation says that if your dog has the characteristics listed on the checklist, then the ONLY way to prove that it isn't a pitbull type is to have pedigree AMSTAFF papers or a vet declaration. Please let us know which vets are willing to declare breed, because most vets won't participate because they don't agree with the legislation. O And once again, the Vic legislation isn't about pitbulls. It is about making a type of dig restricted. I've seen many a lab x staffy that would fit the bill. Are you really suggesting that any bull breed x, regardless of temp or owner, be seized and PTS? will that make our community safer? There is a breed of dog that attends some training sessions that I go to. All the dogs are pedigree. Most people ( experienced trainers who trial) avoid these dogs and won't do any sit/stay exercises near them, even though they don't break ( for fear of their dog being attacked). These dogs have been in skirmishes at every session I've been too. Should we ban them too? After all, when the bullbreeds have gone, the little men could easily move onto this breed..

One of the frenchy owners also does portraits (kitekat I think?)

My dogs don't eat plants either, but the one I won't keep in the garden is oleander - just thee sap off a broken leaf can be deadly to dogs and humans. If I had any I'd get it removed by the pros - it is deadly stuff and ugly to boot. I can't understand why they were so popular in the 70's!

How is she getting calcium? Raw meaty bones as others have suggested would be a good replacement to what she is getting for breakfast.

They are the plastics bits from milking machines - so they have a teat shape.

No case. However the Vic law is very clear in that it specifies Amstaff's only - so a case in NSW is no precedent. I'm not scaremongering, I'm pointing out a deficiency in the law. Is that really your response to Cosmolo, who got her dogs from a shelter (she is hardly some yob who bought a pitbull x from a BYB)? Her dogs don't even look like pitbulls and they're hardly a danger to the community. She bought her dogs before the new Victorian laws were put in place (pitbull x's have not been restricted in Vic until recently). Apologies, I'd actually misread steamboat's post and thought their pup was not registered but the parents were. You are probably right on this point, does anyone know of any test cases involving a staff? to my knowledge there has been not been a case involving a pedigree and registered Staffordshire Bull Terrier. I do know of one Ranger who wanted to play hard ball in NSW but was quickly shut down with ANKC papers and chip.

No - you are incorrect. The Victorian legislation specifically says that only AMSTAFF papers can be used to prove a dog isn't a piutbull. It doesn't say that any ANKC breed is exempt - only Amstaffs. You still haven't answered the question re: people who bought dogs that don't look like pitbulls but could fall under the description of pitbull TYPE before the laws in Victoria changed. Not really, There are about 150 recognised pure breeds on the ANKC register. So there's plenty of choice. But it certainly wont say it's a pitbull or any mixture of x breeds & that's a fact If your dog has come under the notice of the authorities & been I.D. as a restricted breed? As I said earlier. The dog is your responsibility & therefore it's your problem. Who elses would you consider is to blame for the your dilemma?

I trained that pers for when they stole my asthma pump, as it is something I really need in an emergency. Now the little b*ggers steal it at any opportunity and then run to the kitchen, ready for "exchange for num num".

I'd start by training "out" with something she isn't absolutely crazy about. Try a tug, start with "yes", play a little game (not getting her too hyped up, 10 sec max, calm voice etc) and then hold the tug tightly against your legs horizontally. The tug is now "dead" and she can't have fun with it. Don't say anything at all and wait for her to get bored and let go (this could take a looooooong time, but persevere). As soon as she lets out say "out, good out" and give her the command to start playing (ie use "yes"). Rinse and repeat a few times. After a lot of repetitions leave a second or two between "out" and "yes" so that she learns that she has to wait for your permission to start tugging again. If she starts jumping turn your back calmly (stand against a wall so she can't get tot he tug) and as soon as she stops jumping "yes" and play again. She should cotton on that: i) The game is started by you with a "yes" ii) The game ends with "out". The sooner she lets go, the sooner she gets to play again. This should then translate to other toys like the frisbee. ETA: You can get "bar" tugs that are firm so it is easier to play "dead tug".

Where is this rabid mob that you speak of? You have yet to answer the question re: how people prove their rescue dog isn't a pitbull given that Victorian law doesn't allow for DNA testing. Most (all) people here believe that the owner of the dog in question should have been given a jail term. I believe he should have been charged with manslaughter and jailed accordingly. However, the laws at the time of the offence didn't cater for this. Sadly, the new laws don't either - only owners of restricted breeds can be subject to a jail term if their dog attacks someone else. Other owners will only be given a fine - even if the person dies. PS: DOL defaults states to QLD. It has been said many times in this thread that we're talking about Victoria, which is where the killing occurred. PPS: As for the ingrained bias, please don't make assumptions. I love my dogs and like their friends, but I'm really not a fan of other dogs. I don't have a "I wuv pitbulls" bias at all. I don't like stupid laws that don't address the root cause of problems.

Ps as a default DOL shows everyone in QLD.

Sorry but are you even reading the posts. Cosmolo is in Vic where, until recently, PB crosses were nit against the law. She got her dogs years ago and they don't look like pitbulls. However, they tick boxes in a checklist and they can be seized and destroyed as a result of this. They are from shakers and she isn't allowed to use DNA to prove that her dogs aren't pitbull types. In Vic anything that is deemed pitbull TYPE is now restricted, regardless of whether it is a pitbull or not. Cosmolos dogs are the best behaved dogs I have EVER met - I'd trust them over other dogs, even purebred ones. These are dogs that wait on their beds when someone comes into their house and, with permission, calmly greet them. They stay in a drop for 1 HR+ while cosmolo and her hubby train other dogs. Both cosmolo and her husband are accredited trainers and very responsible owners. And yet, because two of them fit a checklist that was brought in revenue (in Vic) they are deemed a risk to the community. Madness. Meanwhile the GSD down the road that goes mental at the sight of another dog is okay. Mad world. They are the most well behaved

SO you want to force people to interact with dogs then? As HW pointed out, this decision was made on environmental grounds. Dogs can - and do - hunt wildlife. I would have preferred no development and just pay the developer out.

Normally a month or so, but it doesn't seem to be set

The issue is it is very hard to find places to exercise what is a human and dog aggressive dog. Even if you stick to on leash, there will always be other dogs spporaching yours. I'd get the dog assessed and then go from there - work with the dog myself or PTS. I personally couldn't rehome an aggressive dog because you never know where it is going to land up (friend could rehome it etc). Id be seeing a behaviourist as a matter of urgency. I have one of these, they can be incredibly unruly adolescents, the amount of times I could have throttled my dog when she was a teen - she was so incredibly hyper. I don't think you can reasonably expect to get away with less than 2 hours HARD exercise every day. Not a casual walk, it has to be a serious fast paced, frisbee throwing, ball throwing, swimming workout. At least that's how I handled it, I also saw a behaviourist, I didn't have aggression issues with my dog, she was always sweet as pie temperament wise, but the hyperactivity, lack of focus and tendency to get so over excited she seemed out of her mind at times, made her a really tough teen to manage. They are the best dogs in the world once they mature and settle down, but you really have to put a lot of time and effort (and did I mention massive amounts of exercise?) into getting them there. The aggression issue is a real worry, it's not normal temperament for a Pit, please do see a reputable behaviourist. If he concludes the problem is brain damage or poor temperament, you may have to consider putting him to sleep, these dogs are so strong, and so determined, when they go bad it can have tragic results. Perhaps if you tell us what state/area you're in someone can reccommend someone? I saw Steve Courtenay near Sydney, he trains police dogs. He's not cheap, but very good value, I'm glad I saw him. I have a good dog now, and I think his advice made all the difference in the world. She's such a lovely dog now, sometimes it's hard to reconcile the great house pet she is now with the wild animal she was just a few years ago. Yes, pig hunting. He knows what my dog is like he would be a pet to him not a working dog If the guy is genuinely a keen pig hunter and experienced with hunting dogs, this sounds like a good idea. The dog will love it, he sounds like he's dying to burn up all that excess energy with some hard work like that. See a behaviourist first though, you don't want to pass on a dog who is brain damaged or flat out has a poor temperament to your friend. Good luck! Let us know how you go.

I agree. Don't assume that all people who don't want to live near dogs are dog haters either - they just might be tired of not being able to go to the park without being bowled over. I'm all for people being able to choose how they live, as long as it doesn't discriminate against people. Personally I'd like to live in a community where cats weren't allowed to roam and owners who let their pets (dogs or cats) roam faced significant financial penalty. I'd also like "responsible dog owner" friendly communities with off leash areas you could book.

Could it just be her other legs are over- compensating and hurting as a result?

I'm pretty sure that if your order gets checked with customs the tails will be removed - they don't have time to check on treatment methods etc. They even confiscate products that are imported by wholesalers here.

Thanks Steve - I won't give him any then. Id always check with the vet first