baker_girl

I just want to add here, that I have managed to get an appointment this afternoon for a second oppinion with the alternative therapies vet. The staff think I'm a diffiuclt cow...but I've managed to plead my case and get him to see me where he has been otherwise booked out for 3 weeks. So I will see how this goes.

Not the same vet no. We are located on the Gold Coast.

Hi Ams, Thanks. I am waiting for the specialist to call me back. I want to ask various questions. The specialist will be doing the xrays and then contact me with his opinion and diagnosis. We haven't decided to go ahead at all with the surgery at this point. So yes, I am hoping the specialist tells me the surgery isn't neccessary. I have also contacted today a chiropractic vet who offers alternative therapy. Speaking with him has raised some more questions about the procedure. Your situation is exactly what I'm afraid of. So far you've had no need to do the surgery. The vets may only be responding to our initial request for consultation to see if he may be suffering from something due to his few symptoms. I can't fault them that they are recommending the xrays as this to me would be the responsible thing to do. As a vet they have only offered me one of a few possible options. Yes, it's surgery and not the more conservative approach but I guess this is their belief. I have to then take what they tell me and make a decision. Thanks.

Thanks Teekay. I was going to say, relating to a previous post, that your above comment was my understanding too regarding evaluating of PenHipp xrays.

Thanks for the above. The quote above regarding QLD expert, is that in the same article? I'm trying to find comments in relation to the JPS but can't seem to locate it. Like you said, depending on your sources, I've read the optimal age anywhere from 16-22 weeks but generally before 20 weeks. Thanks.

Hi, Thanks for responding. We definately have kept in mind it's not uncommon for pups to go through growing pains. In regards to the kind of examination our dog has gone through- What would you suggest we have done? I've been told to get thorough examinations and an xray to get a proper and well informed diagnosis of his condtion. Without that, I would assume some people would consider that I have not done all I can to diagnose his condition properly. I have read and I'm quoting here: "Whereas this is regarded as an inherited disorder, recently it has been shown that it develops during the first weeks or months after birth. Consequently hip dysplasia may be regarded as congenital or developmental. Developmental hip dysplasia is also referred to as environmental HD. HD is common in many larger breeds of dogs however many breeders have worked hard to reduce the incidence of HD in their dogs. This has been achieved by having their dogs X-rayed and scored for hip dysplasia when they are young and before they are bred." "How do I know that my dog has HD? Some dogs have HD and they go through life without showing much of a problem until they develop osteoarthritis (OA) when they are much older. Other dogs show signs when they are much younger around 16 weeks of age." The above was from a holistic vet that uses alternative therapy to surgery. So my point is, I believe HD can be diagnosed at an age of 18 weeks. We won't be making this decision lightly if he is diagnosed. Either way he will be facing a lifetime of management of his condition. Even if we do go ahead with the surgery, we will still need to manage his weight and exercise to make sure we don't undo what can be achieved with this procedure. Thanks.

How often has your vet carried out the operation? What is their success rate? Hi, Yes, this was one of the first questions I asked of course. What was the success rate. How many do you do. What is the rehabilitation required. What downsides are there. The orthopedic surgeon said the success rate he has found with this procedure personally is very high. He didn't give me percentages? Can anyone give definitive pecentages on the success of an operation? I don't know. He specialises in orthopedic surgeries only and does many of these procedures. He called me personally to discuss the procedure and spoke highly of it. On rehabilitation he said it is not as invasive as other future operations and rehabilition will be minimal and not as extensive if something else was done later in life, like a full hip replacement. I am meeting with the vet on Monday as I want to discuss further what can go wrong, or if this procedure can hinder any future treatment.

The vet practice were the ones who noticed his possible sway. It was suggested it couldn't hurt to get a consult. From this consult they then suggested, we have an xray, for a confirmed diagnosis. They are by no means diagnosing this without an xray first. I want to make that clear. They will contact us on conclusion of the xray to discuss the findings then. JPS was an option given to us as what can be done, due to the age of the pup. I guess to them, this is one option out of many and as he is a candidate for this surgery they are offering it to us. They explained what further surgical options may be available in future, should his hips deteriorate. They did comment on the need of exercise and weight mangement with Labradors. These were things we are already aware of. With all due respect to my Breeder and I do respect his advice but his opinion on my Vet, is not the same as what I've experienced with them. He didn't know any of the particular vets I was dealing with, but more was against the philosophy he belives this vet chain uses. To me, him trying to dissaude me from my particular vet, without actually knowing personally how any of them treat, was a bit of pressure in itself and it did add to my frustration.

Have you asked your vet? What is his/her success rate? How many operation have they performed and what follow up has been recorded on the dogs? What does your vet think of your pups shortened tail? What does cruciate ops on your sisters Rotti have to do with your pups hips? Thanks, I'll read your article. It gave the example of my Sister's dog with cruciate ligament damage and now the constant management she has to do with him and his quality of life as I was trying to explain that this is a scenario I would love to avoid if at all possible. If I could try and alleviate some of the discomfort and damage of HD at an early age this would be ideal. That's all. The Breeder's vet and both my vet have checked the tail and commented that he appears sound and does not appear to have any side effects of it. This was when he was 8 weeks of age.

Hi lilli, Thanks for your response. The JPS procedure is only recommended on dogs between the ages of 12-20 weeks (3-4 months). Results indicated the greatest benefit during this time. After this time the operations are not seen as a possible option as dogs are too old and pelvic bone already too developed. If we wait to see the vet in a month's time, our dog will be passed this window recommended for this particular treatment. Like you said, I don't think I will ever be 100% sure of any decision I make. Either way I am either going to have to decline this surgery and hope that I have not turned down a chance that may have helped Jet in future. Or do the surgery and time will tell if it is beneficial. The fact is, if he is diagnosed with HD, it will be a lifetime of mangement for his condition. I am doing as much research now as I can so that can make an informed decision and I am taking all advice on board to keep an open mind. Thanks.

Hi Mokhahouse, Thanks so much for sharing your experience. Your dogs are beautiful. I have a choccie female too :D I guess what you said above is what I am struggling with. My vet has said JPS can be very successful. However if we decide to not go ahead that is our decision. However we will need to manage it and any operations later in life are exactly that, 'a salvage mission'. That's exactly how he phrased it. It's all hypothetical now isn't it?? I have to make a decision based on all the information I have and what could or could not possibly happen. Hey, my fingers are crossed that the x-rays are good and we have nothing to worry about at all and these are just growning pains. I will add, he is a VERY inactive puppy, especially for a Lab. So much so, it's been commented on by almost everyone that meets him. At first I thought it was his personality and now I'm wondering if it's actually because he's in pain?

I'm writing in the hope that someone can shed some more light on my situation. I posted this thread also in the Health/Grooming section but thought to post in the Breeders section hoping for maximum traffic. In the last few weeks our 18 week old pup Jet started displaying symptoms of swaying in his walk and hind legs. Yesterday we took preliminary steps in having him checked out by the Orthopedic Veterinary Surgeon. They checked his mobility and joints by slight manipulations. He displayed quite alot of pain in this examination and yelped and whimpered through this. They walked him to view his sway. The Vet's opinion that based on these initial observations the diagnosis could be Hip Displaysia. At this time we have now booked him in for an x-ray next Monday for a confirmation on diagnosis. At the time of diagnosis, should it be confirmed hip displaysia, our vet is then highly recommending we proceed with JPS. Based on their advice, we need to make a decision on the same day so that they can complete the procedure while the dog is already under anesthetic for the x-ray. Also JPS from my understanding is really only recommended for dogs up to the age of 20 weeks. I will also add at this point, that we got Jet from a labrador breeder. He was the last dog in his litter. He did have a short tail which the breeder advised was x-rayed to see of possible issues. We were told that one or two vertebrae of the tail look to be missing but the vet's opinion is the dog is sound otherwise. We never saw the x-rays when purchasing Jet. We trusted the Breeders and his Vet's opinion on this matter. The fact the Jet had a shorter tail didn't bother me at all. I'm only mentioning this as I am now wondering if it could be pre-cursor or cause of another underlying condition? I have contacted our Breeder to let him know of the situation as I believe he would have a vested interest. He is not supportive of the surgery and feels there are other symptoms to manage the condition. I guess to me this is where I am so torn. I want to make the right decision. Of course I don't want to put a dog this young through surgery unless it is absolutely necessary. From what I've been told and from what I've been reading on my own, I understand that this surgery can be successfull and seen as a proactive step in trying to treat HD? If I leave Jet and not go through with the surgery what are my options? Do I wait for his HD to progress and then manage the symptoms as they appear? I have a sister who has a large Rottweiler who has had two cruciate ligament operations and now has to manage his condition. He still can't walk well, his hips are now causing him pain, he can't play with other animals, he doesn't have a great quality of life. I don't want the same thing for my dog and really want to give him the best chance and not just have to manage the symptoms. I know there is no cure. I am doing as much research as I can on the JPS procedure. I guess what I really want to know are what are the downsides and what can go wrong? I've read "It is effective, virtually complication-free, has minimal postoperative restrictions and is far less invasive and expensive compare to traditional surgeries". If I do this operation and it's not successfull, is the worst case scenario that I am faced with having to manage the condition as I would have had to in the first place? Will it hinder the prospect of any future treatment if this is not successful? Will it do more damage? My breeder also does not speak highly of my vet and feels they are pressuring me into this. He feels they too freely advocate aggressive surgery and this is not his choice. Fair enough. This is a whole other issue and I am not taking this decision lightly. I can only base my decision with the information I have received and have to put a certain amount of trust with my vet. I have had no problems with them previously and feel they have been outstanding in the service they offer me. I have tried to book in with another vet for a second opinion however the vet recommended by my breeder cannot see my until early next month. As I said earlier, the vet would like to try and do the surgery on the same day if we decide to go ahead due to him already being under anesthetic and due to the window of time recommend this surgery be done in. Sorry for the long post. I am really trying to seek out advice and opinions here. Of course everyone has a different school of thought and I know alot of people probably won't agree with the surgery. I understand this is viewed as quite a controversial topic. This is why I'm here, for advice but not for a public flaming Any information greatly appreciated. Thanks.

I'm writing in the hope that someone can shed some more light on my situation. I am in a very similar situation to a recent thread where my 18 week old pure bred labrador is currently undergoing diagnosis for Hip Displaysia. In the last few weeks our 18 week old pup Jet started displaying symptoms of swaying in his walk and hind legs. Yesterday we took preliminary steps in having him checked out by the Orthopedic Veterinary Surgeon. They checked his mobility and joints by slight manipulations. He displayed quite alot of pain in this examination and yelped and whimpered through this. They walked him to view his sway. The Vet's opinion that based on these initial observations the diagnosis could be Hip Displaysia. At this time we have now booked him in for an x-ray next Monday for a confirmation on diagnosis. At the time of diagnosis, should it be confirmed hip displaysia, our vet is then highly recommending we proceed with JPS. Based on their advice, we need to make a decision on the same day so that they can complete the procedure while the dog is already under anesthetic for the x-ray. Also JPS from my understanding is really only recommended for dogs up to the age of 20 weeks. I will also add at this point, that we got Jet from a labrador breeder. He was the last dog in his litter. He did have a short tail which the breeder advised was x-rayed to see of possible issues. We were told that one or two vertebrae of the tail look to be missing but the vet's opinion is the dog is sound otherwise. We never saw the x-rays when purchasing Jet. We trusted the Breeders and his Vet's opinion on this matter. The fact the Jet had a shorter tail didn't bother me at all. I'm only mentioning this as I am now wondering if it could be pre-cursor or cause of another underlying condition? I have contacted our Breeder to let him know of the situation as I believe he would have a vested interest. He is not supportive of the surgery and feels there are other symptoms to manage the condition. I guess to me this is where I am so torn. I want to make the right decision. Of course I don't want to put a dog this young through surgery unless it is absolutely necessary. From what I've been told and from what I've been reading on my own, I understand that this surgery can be successfull and seen as a proactive step to trying to stop further symptoms of HD in future? If I leave Jet and not go through with the surgery what are my options? Do I wait for his HD to progress and then manage the symptoms as they appear? I have a sister who has a large Rottweiler who has had two cruciate ligament operations and now has to manage his condition. He still can't walk well, his hips are now causing him pain, he can't play with other animals, he doesn't have a great quality of life. I don't want the same thing for my dog and really want to give him the best chance and not just have to manage the symptoms. I know this is no cure. My breeder also does not speak highly of my vet and feels they are pressuring me into this. He feels they too freely advocate aggressive surgery and this is not his choice. Fair enough. This is a whole other issue and I am not taking this decision lightly. I can only base my decision with the information I have received and have to put a certain amount of trust with my vet. I have had no problems with them previously and feel they have been outstanding in the service they offer me. I have tried to book in with another vet for a second opinion however the vet recommended by my breeder cannot see my until early next month. As I said earlier, the vet would like to try and do the surgery on the same day if we decide to go ahead due to him already being under anesthetic and due to the window of time recommend this surgery be done in. Sorry for the long post. I am really trying to seek out advice and opinions here. Of course everyone has a different school of thought and I know alot of people probably won't agree with the surgery. I understand this is viewed as quite a controversial topic. This is why I'm here, for advice but not for a public flaming Any information greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Hi Rudie, I haven't used this company yet but have made contact and they seemed to be very knowledgable. I noticed they also advertise on the DOL site. http://www.caninecountry.com.au/ There is a supplier who does home deliveries on the Gold Coast. Again he was very helpful when I contacted him. His name is Craig Miller and his details can be found on the Stockists page of the Canine Country website.

This is the thing...when he goes out he is generally calm, waits for her to sit, plays for a long time, sometimes up to an hour and then she'll do this. She's not in super excited state before she does it. But I think generally the behaviour would be classed as a nervous/submissive type act? I don't know if reprimand was the best word. He tells her no and then leaves/ignores her to reinforce that this is not a beahviour that I guess will get her attention.

When he walks in the house, usually he will open the outside sliding door to let her know he is home and then once she is calm he will go out to greet her. We are kind of baffled because the times she urinates have often been after spending long periods of time with him and then she'll do it when he goes to pat her or play, give her a bone etc. Sometimes it is in the morning when he initially goes out to greet her. He has tried to remain really calm and not overly excited when he goes out to try and control her excitement. But when it does happen he instantly gets frustrated and reprimands her with a verbal 'No' and then goes back inside. I'm not sure if this is teaching her not to do it or only making her more nervous about it?

Yes, she is excited when she displays this behavior. I should have also pointed out that she only does this with my OH. No one else and not me. She gets quite a lot of human contact, we walk her at least once sometimes twice a day just to get her more used to her surroundings. She doesn't display any nervous/excited behavior on these occasions. She is not a timid dog by nature but very outgoing. I have not to contacted the breeder. I have tried to contact in the past to keep her updated and share our experiences however have not received any replies. I understand it is just something that we will need to work at improving but just wanted to better understand the psychology behind it. We are starting basic obedience training with a reputable trainer that covers many other facets of dog behavior so will also bring this up then. Thanks.

Hi, I have a 5 month old female Labrador. She is mainly an outside dog and has learnt to do her business on the grassed areas in the yard. However often when my OH goes out to play with her or goes out to greet her in the morning she urinates where she happens to be in his presence. At times he could be playing with her for a long period of time and then she'll just urinate, without attempting to move to her usual area. She has done this while being greeted, rewarded, played with on her bed, on mh OH, on her sleeping cushion, on the patio area. Her temperament when she displays this behavior is more of or a nervous/excited behavior. Could she just be completely submitting to my OH who she recognises as the pack leader?

I've been told so much conflicting advice on the topic of what to feed my pup that I've stopped asking. I think some dogs can react differently to what they are fed so it might be a case of trial and error. See what your dog responds to best and then stick to that?

My girl gets them almost daily and she's 4 and a half months. I think they are so cute!! She's adorable when she gets them and it's really funny to watch her hop around while also hiccuping. ETA: My girl gets them when she's really excited about something.

Thanks Calzen! It's Vetalogica. I did try a search Vetlogica but nothing came up.

Hi Guys, This may be a long shot but I'm try to find out about an animal/pet vitamin company in Australia. I read about it today at the gym in a ladies magazine, either Women's Weekly or Women's Day..one of those. The company from memory started with a V and may have been something like vita-something. I was just really keen to go on the website (one was listed) but for the life of me can't remember the name. Didn't write it down as i was at the gym but tried internet searches with nothing. They did a whole range of pet supplements for various conditions and ailments. ??

Yeah read a few of the debates too on head halters Ok, I was considering clicker training as read a few good things about it on her but have to admit never done it before so will need to read up on it. So the idea is to click to redirect their attention away from the distraction and then treat but never to just use the clicker to make a distraction noise with no real purpose or goal and no reward? Nope, the click is a marker for the behavior you want. So you click when the dog looks at you (and not other people/dogs). That's why you need to start with low distractions to give a dog a chance to be successful and get lots of clicks and treats for looking at you! The click should not be used as a lure or as a distraction from other things. It's only a marker. After a click a reward (treat or toy) should ALWAYS follow. Oh ok, make sense. So how do I get the dog's attention in the first place? Can I call her name then she looks at me then mark it will the clicker and then reward with a treat? Continue doing that with low distractions until she's got it? I would start at home/in your yard (the lowest distractions place). Take some treats and sit down. If she comes and looks at you click and treat (C&T). Do it ~10 times and finish session here (I would repeat this session a couple of times, sometimes throwing treats around so you click whenever she picks her head up and looks at you after eating her treat). After that put her leash on and literally walk 2-3m and stop. She will look at you to see what happened, C&T that. Build up slowly. The more foundation you have in lower distractions the more powerful the click will become and she will try to look at you more and more for a C&T. Does that make sense? Ok thanks! Yes does make sense. My sis has a clicker so I will pop around tonight to borrow it and start off slowly.

No it wasn't. It was a pet store (doesn't sell animals) on the gold coast. Must be a few around

Yeah read a few of the debates too on head halters Ok, I was considering clicker training as read a few good things about it on her but have to admit never done it before so will need to read up on it. So the idea is to click to redirect their attention away from the distraction and then treat but never to just use the clicker to make a distraction noise with no real purpose or goal and no reward? Nope, the click is a marker for the behavior you want. So you click when the dog looks at you (and not other people/dogs). That's why you need to start with low distractions to give a dog a chance to be successful and get lots of clicks and treats for looking at you! The click should not be used as a lure or as a distraction from other things. It's only a marker. After a click a reward (treat or toy) should ALWAYS follow. Oh ok, make sense. So how do I get the dog's attention in the first place? Can I call her name then she looks at me then mark it will the clicker and then reward with a treat? Continue doing that with low distractions until she's got it?