tomas

What he said ;) My 5 Vizslas are about to sit down to half a raw possum each,all organs intact and some green tripe. Yesterday it was a whole chicken each. Tomorrow,who knows,will see what I can get. Maybe a bowl of ox heart as they have had some bone the last 2 days and I hardly ever go 3 days with bony meals. My point is,it is'nt hard . I work on 80% meat,10 % bone,10% organs of which 5 % is liver. I took in a litter brother to one of my boys at 14 months,he had terrible skin allerigies and was allergic to everything,his brother I raised did'nt,he had been raised on dry and canned food,of various kinds. All dermatology tests his original owners did said he was allergic to all meats and dust and blah blah,they were going to put him down. Nup,we will have him I said. Well within about 6 weeks this dog looked normal and has never had a skin issue since,he is nearly 9 and asleep next to me after running 1 1/2 hours at the beach. IMO feeding a dog a vegetarian diet is abuse! Tell the lady at work that!

The probiotics are allowing the gut to heal,can take a good few days so yay for that. Nope if you feed raw you need about 10% bone at least,so no just meat meals. Also a badly adhered to raw diet is worse IMO than even the cheapest dry! As was said they are your dogs you need to do what you feel is right and comfortable with :p I have said what I would do Best of luck.

This is what I am wondering., what is an appropriate size portion if I do that? He is low energy, 7kg and 5 years old. The toy is 4kg and just 12 months old, medium energy. Thanks Tomas, I will check out that website. He is a lot better today. My only concern is that his poos are small. I don't know what to put this down to. Whether its because he is only getting what I am giving him rather than free access plus bones. They just seem even smaller than the toy poodles who is eating the same amount. The frequency has significantly reduced today though. I just don't want him to get backed up. (This was why I was questioning whether the wrapper had contributed to this) If you are just feeding raw,poops are small,as they use much of what they eat,unlike dry where a lot passes through. Do not expect large poop with raw. Also whatever you feed will be whatever comes out. Today mine had beef heart,over a kg each. Tomorrow they will all have softish but formed black poop! I have Vizslas and believe me some days there is very little and they all get over a kg a day! It also depends on what the meal is. Chicken usually gives them small firm poops Base your initial amount on 2% of their weight. So for your 7kg dog you would feed around 200g a day and for your smaller dog about 120g a day...I would whack a whole chicken into portions and hand that out over quite a few days. Lucky you cos mine all get a small whole chicken at one sitting! I really need smaller dogs! If you feel he is getting backed up,remember to add more meat....bone to firm things up and meat to loosen,organs work well in that regard too,but for a while just stick to meaty bits on the bone. A chicken is 27% bone which is more than enough without being too much. Oh and I would'nt bother with wings at all,just too bony. So legs and breast bone in bits it is :-)

True but doing this is easier to start with. Your approach is easier than feeding a dog one type of food and only that for 5-6 weeks? Giving a dog one type of food for a few days and then switching is more likely to screw up the digestive system even more, surely. I said stick to just raw or just kibble,what I should have explained when sticking to just raw,was go back to that type of protein which was well tolerated and use that. Lets say chicken....buy whole chickens and feed only that whacked into appropriate sizes to teach the digestive tract to work normally. That is what I would do . Without the rice. Also Poodle Proud I don't think the paper wrapper would have upset the tum to what you are seeing now and mucous is a sign of irritation...slippery elm would be very useful in your situation. Here is a link I found you to help http://www.holvet.net/slippery_soup.html dosage details are near the bottom of the page. I also totally agree with a few of the other posters,not all dogs do well on the same foods...some ,though few I believe just cannot tolerate raw. But I do not think yours is one of those,I think you just have an irritated gut and once that is calmed ,whatever works will be whatever works. Raw or kibble. As I said I would just go raw chicken till things firm up... I use Natures Way probiotics and I just feel human grade is better regulated and of a higher quality. JMO. Hope that helps

True but doing this is easier to start with.

You can google info about probiotics,but they have them refrigerated so there are as many live bacteria in there as they say there is when they are manufactured. I always use a refigerated product for me and my dogs. I would try dry OR raw....that way you will have an idea what works,some dogs will do fine with a mix some won't,so do a little experiment of your own and cut one out and see if that clears things up. I feed totally raw,but HAVE on occasion fed dry if say I did'nt get something and shops are shut,though in all honesty I have gone to a dairy and bought 20 cans of sardines and given them that and eggs as well. :rolleyes: Sounds like his tum is just irritated but not too badly,or I would have expected mucous also... So switch to dry or raw the next few days and see what comes of that Oh and I don't have a squeamish tummy and I look at every poop my dogs do,just like to know what is coming out.

Yes, she eats all of it. For breaky she gets it plain, and dinner she gets it mixed with the sardines, yoghurt or something to add some variety so she doesn't get bored. What colour is the diarrhoea? Thanks vjb, It varies but over the past couple days it has been a bit green. Green like she has been eating grass? Or green like mucous tinged...?

I just like the human grade probiotics for my guys,seems to be a stricter control in the making,does yours need refrigeration? I use Natures Way - Optima for my boys. Have you also tried just dry or just raw....dogs need a very acidic gut to digest raw and dry alkalinises the gut,so you are sending their tummies left and right...no wonder they are getting upset tums. :rolleyes:

Have you tried giving a human grade probiotic to make certain there is enough beneficial bacteria in there to break down the food,whatever you are feeding? Also are you certain there are no worms present? Just a few things to think about.

Just wanted to re-emphasise this, as it's so very important. Thanks for the recipe, Tomas! Yes that is a vital point,I have enough of it to keep making it for about 20 years! LOVE this stuff,better than any other ear cleaner I have ever tried!

It's not readily availiable in NZ either but I got a 500 ml bottle of it off the internet....

This ear treatment never fails to work for me! Blue Power Ear Treatment from the web,though I use this on my floppy eared dogs and usually only have to clean them once every few months and they swim regularly. Caution: please have your veterinarian evaluate your dog's ear drum prior to treating the ear problem yourself. Be certain that the ear drum is NOT ruptured, as there could be the risk of irreversible deafness or loss of equilibrium. Your vet can rule out the presence of tumors or foreign bodies such as foxtails. A microscope smear would reveal bacteria, yeast or mites and then a culture and sensitivity test can be performed. INGREDIENTS: 16 Oz. bottle of Isopropyl Alcohol (standard 70%) 4 Tablespoons of Boric Acid Powder 16 Drops of Gentian Violet Solution 1% (see end of article for more information) Mix together in alcohol bottle and shake well. You will need to shake solution every time you use it to disperse the Boric Acid Powder. Purchase a flexible plastic bottle with the opening at the top so that the solution may be gently squeezed out and dispense solution to affected ears. The ideal is a hair-dye bottle available at a pharmacy, Wal-Mart, Target, etc, or a beauty supply store. TREATMENT PROCEDURE: 1) Evaluate condition of ears before treating and if very inflamed and sore: do not attempt to pull hair or clean out ear at all. Just flush and then wait until inflammation has subsided, which will be about two days. 2) Warm the solution (as instructed above) and shake the bottle each time before using it for treatment. 3) Flood the ear with solution (gently squirt bottle). 4) Massage gently to the count of 60, wipe with a tissue. 5) On first treatment: flood the ear twice, wipe with a tissue, and leave alone without massage. 6) The dog will shake out the excess, which can be wiped with a tissue. The SCHEDULE of treatment is as follows: • Treat TWICE a day for the first week to two weeks, depending upon severity of ears. • After the second or third day you can clean out the ear with a Q-tip or cotton balls (see caution below). Treat ONCE a day for the next 1-2 weeks. • Treat ONCE a month (or even less frequently, depending on the dog). Caution: When using a Q-tip, only insert it as far into the ear canal as you can actually see. Use care to prevent the gunk from falling down into the ear canal. Users of the Blue Power Ear Treatment have found that, unless the dog has abraded the skin by scratching, thealcohol doesn’t sting and the dog will not object to even the first treatment. The Boric Acid Powder soothes the ear. The Gentian Violet Solution is an anti-infection agent, as it is a dye mixture that acts as a bactericide, fungicide, and anthelmintic (destroys worms). Remember, gentian violet will stain hair, clothing, etc. The Blue Power Ear Treatment as detailed above appears to work well on any and all ear problems from mites to wax to canker. The success rate for this treatment is said to be 95-99%. Those who do not succeed have usually not done the treatment long enough.

LOVE the way you think Star! Work it out!

Yeah ,Though I never find yoghurt to have enough good stuff in it. Plus humans are the only animals to eat dairy after weaning,so not terribly species appropriate IMO I always give my 5 boys probiotics after worming I double it for a few days as that kills all the good and bad bacteria they need to stay healthy.

Try a human probiotic capsule over his food,will aid the good enzymes in his stomach and also aid in digestion ,so the bad breath smell 'should' go away in a few days.

Hi Jamie, We are in NZ,it is not irradiated here either. I said it was about the best choice of dry they could make,so am happy they went with it. There is also a grain free from Canidae,can you get that in Aust? Tomas. No we can't get Canidae over here to the best of my knowledge.I used to feed Orijen but now feed Innova Evo large bites. That's a shame,but Evo is also a good food

Sounds great but can I can make one suggestion? Could you suggest they intro beef or lamb muscle or heart meat next after the chicken bone (unless they have a good reason to intro chicken meat next instead)? Puppies need more iron and zinc than you'd think, and there's bugger all of either in chicken meat. Hope it all works out for them! True! Good point Star! Will do.

Hi Jamie, We are in NZ,it is not irradiated here either. I said it was about the best choice of dry they could make,so am happy they went with it. There is also a grain free from Canidae,can you get that in Aust? Tomas.

I really appreciate all the feedback those of you who responded have given. I have sent my workmates an email outlining how they can go about feeding their Neo pup based on what was said here. From that they came up with this.... They are using a 1/2 (daily) serve of Orijen as a base and also raw food to 1-1.5% as the best guessitimate of what the dogs adult weight will be. It seems they will feed one meal dry and one meal raw,though they have also done a 'mix' meal...so far so good.... I managed to finally get through to them about chicken bones being soft so at the very least this wee pup will have something to chew on other than sticks! Have also convinced them to stick with chicken for now and in a week or so if no digestive upsets they can intro some chicken meat with no bone,then organ and so on ,so in a month this pup will at least be on chicken and beef or lamb or pork etc etc...depending on which meat they choose next. They are also including a probiotic capsule,1/2 given am and 1/2 at the night meal. They said the wee man ,Caesar is hoovering everything he is offered and must think the world is a great place to be. Just wanted to get back to you all and thanks again.

Really happy to know that some people feed the raw and kibble together and don't have issues. I am thankful for all the help you guys are giving me,going to make an email of all the info and send to my friends. By the way they have a Neo mastiff pup! All mine get raw.kibble together & never had issues in 25yrs Thank you I really appreciate all the feedback.

I would be very cautious about adding calcium to a pup's diet. Tomas, if your friends aren't going to feed an appropriate (ie containing bone) raw diet, their pup will do better on a good quality kibble. I would suggest they seek advice about whether to feed a "puppy" or an "adult" formula as many giant dog breeders are cautious about the high levels of calcium found in such formulas. They were feeding Eukanuba initially,now they have swithced him to Orijen,we are in NZ,no irradiation. They have had vets advice and my advice and various other doggy peoples advice. As they are freinds of mine at work and are nice people,I am trying to help them as much as they can. Frankly I want them to pick either raw or dry but this is what they have chosen so between me,you guys and what they can find on the internet we should get it right My other concern was as first time dog owners how hard is a Neo going to be? I have already gotten them enrolled in puppy school and have said as much socialisation as this dog can get they will be thankful about when it's older!

Their breeder feeds dry only and they seem to think they will get the best of both worls if they feed a mixed diet...not sure if that is logical though.

I DO know what you mean,I made the choice to feed raw for that reason. But as they just don't feel they can do a raw diet justice they came up with the idea of mixing both. I am trying to get as much info as I can together for them,they have done some internet reseach but are not on DOL,so I thought I would ask the experts

I am hopeful they will give him some bones....it has been a struggle to get get them sorted,first time puppy owners. I just want their baby to have the best possible start as he is a large breed and I said no matter what they do,they just need to do it right as joint issues could arise if they don't!

Really happy to know that some people feed the raw and kibble together and don't have issues. I am thankful for all the help you guys are giving me,going to make an email of all the info and send to my friends. By the way they have a Neo mastiff pup!