Bindii

Congrats Blackbelgian!! We noticed that little Schipperke - Was certainly a stand out.. very cute! It was a really wonderful weekend away (i've just arrived home!) The weather was nice and it was just relaxed and fun! I was very happy to bring home 4 fringies.. Fletcher recieved 4 x Junior in Group awards, and 2 x DCC (BOB and RUBOB) Kept getting knocked out of Junior in Show by that stunning Dandie Dinmont Terrier!! Lyndsay - never did get a chance to say hello! You must have been hiding.. Group 5 and 6 aren't THAT far away from each other

From my experience, I agree. Labs are often much more boisterous as pups/adolescent dogs. Pretty much all Goldens appear more docile from a young age. Just my experience from the vet clinic! I also agree that dogs love to be inside with their families.. but i did grow up with outside dogs that were walked frequently and we spent a lot of time with them and they were very happy. I just remember that when the dogs were allowed inside for whatever reason - extreme temperatures etc - they were quite silly as it was such a rare and exciting experience. My dogs now.. they sleep the whole time inside

Best coverage of puppy farms that I've seen on TV to date. Certainly didn't have a positive twist to it in any way, don't think anyone would walk away thinking that they're a good thing. Brilliant. I hope it was seen by many.

Wow good work!! Congrats young Swanky!!

Either you have misunderstood me, or I'm misunderstanding you. No - if it were Separation Anxiety your pug would not be fine when he knows you are out and gone from the house. What would you call it then, when it's only literally a wall or window or cage bars separating us that sets him off? It is only me. OH can put him outside and clean the whole house, if i'm there, he's screams and cries and froths about being separated.

The Pug is his, the Samoyed is mine. I feed, walk, train etc etc etc. But that's what they've decided. Not sure why or how it happened, i never thought i could have a bond like mine and pug's with another dog, but i guess it works out easier that they have 'chosen.' It's only been really obvious in the last month or so... Pug no longer bothers to get of the couch when i come home if OH is already home! I get a tail wag, and that's it! (but he is obsessed with me and, as i just wrote in another thread, has a bit of a separation problem with me) Samoyed runs to the door and gives me great big woo-woos!! On the other hand, if i'm home with the dogs and OH comes home, both get up to great him, but he gets no woo-woos from the Sam! :D

There are different types... as far as i'm concerned. There's a dog that's bored - so, not enough stimulation (walks, toys etc etc) and a dog that has true anxiety - just as people can. Each need to be treated differently, and perhaps it's hard to tell which is which so start with the basics, ensure the dog is walked frequently, has plenty of toys and that there isn't something in particular that a dog is barking at - a barking dog doesn't always mean it is anxious, it could just be barking at a particular bird chirp or someone walking down their street and they can see it. I think exercising is a huge thing.. i know my dogs will sleep for hours after a walk. I recommend that to people often - walk the dog in the morning, it will sleep while you're away! If all measures have been taken (Including leaving the dog inside - because i reckon 9/10 that would fix everything in the barking dog) then perhaps the dog does have real anxiety, it wont just have a nap while you're out because it's tired, and perhaps it does need to be treated with medication. It's not nice to think the dog is anxious the whole time you're out, and you can't send them to therapy like a person. ETA: Erny, i had never thought of it like that but it's very true! In that case, my pug has true seperation anxiety (with me - no one else) but not the normal 'left alone' anxiety. He is perfectly fine when he knows that i'm out and gone from the house (check frequently with the neighbours... and also cos he takes up top position on the couch as i go to the door) but if he can see or hear me, but can't reach me he cries and whinges. He has on the odd occasion frothed at the mouth and had soaking wet front legs from the anxiety of being separated. I never know what to call his anxiety, but you're right.. he literally has 'separation' anxiety.

Are you talking generally, Bindii, or specifically to the OP about the OP's dog? I mean in general. I mean, it's fine if people want to brush their dogs teeth. I just think it's a bit OTT for a vet to say that's what someone MUST do - because bones do the job just fine. IF you have concerns about blockages etc then go ahead and brush, but no one should pretend it's the only option. To say that chewing a bone is like us eating an apple is rubbish.

Ummm.. bones here, no brushing! I'm a bit embarrassed that vets would actually suggest brushing them............ How ridiculous.

Sorry to hear that Simba has had an upset tummy! If you want xrays, you can get them. You're paying, it's your dog. Just ask for the xrays to be done!

No you're right I'm tired... and I think i was actually just offended that you forgot about me

I didn't see you post in the thread today before comments were directed at Pug owners. I am also not narrow minded in regards to specific breeds.. thanks for the accusation though. I meant all of the discussion about 'big dogs' I'm just saying it has little to do with size... It has nothing to do with their size. A Staffy isn't that much bigger than a Pug, anyway.

It's a very uneducated reason to have a small breed then. The only dog that has ever 'damaged' me was a Jack Russell. I've worked full time for two years at two different vet clinics and the only dog that has bitten me was a small one... It slipped it's muzzle off (which it had come in to the clinic with) was taken out to our back area to be mircrochipped. In hind site it should have been done in a smaller consult room, but usually when a vet requires nurses assistance it is taken to the back, and we didn't predict what was going to happen. It bit it's tongue and was bleeding profusely - it was like it was rabid!! It ran around from corner to corner leaping at the vets and nurses (large and small people!) baring it's teeth the whole time. I didn't know it was happening, walked into the kennel area where it was, it ran at me and held onto my arm biting me. It took 20 mins for us to hook it with the noose to catch it. Sure, they might do less damage... but it didn't make it any less scarier or any easier to deal with the situation. I am yet to see a large dog act like this in the clinic or else where. Hmmmm??? No but you're right, you're the only one that has been slightly narrow minded about specific breeds etc.

:laugh: Interesting.. you don't seem to think that about dogs who have aggressive genetic backgrounds.

It's interesting that you are going on so much about deformed pugs etc etc when i've read many-a post where Anne is concerned for the health of pugs being bred. She has been involved in rescue for years (still?) and has seen a lot of health issues in the breed but protects them for the gorgeous nature. We're talking about temperament. I understand where you are coming from about BSL but i actually don't think Anne will disagree with you on that one

That is exactly what some posters are saying; Oh yes, great! So we can edit peoples posts so that it misinterprets the whole meaning, wonderful! Actually, Huski "exactly" what i said was this: Which is, interestingly enough, very similar to what you went on to say. Only you feel that training plays the bigger part, and i feel that genetics does. You yourself speak of how difficult it was, and how hard you worked at training the beagle instinct of sniffing out of Daisy for obedience. Why was that there? Her genetics. YES you were able to train it out of her - she is in great hands! Not every aggressive dog ends up in good hands, not every born aggressive dog is brought up to have it trained out of them. And in the same breath - YES a genetically good natured dog CAN become aggressive due to how they were brought up... but the fact is, you don't have to train aggression out of a Samoyed or a Pug or a Beagle.. because genetically they are good natured.

And the edit button, it seems! Sorry to hear about the majoy surgery... but it seems to have gone well and great that everything will be back to normal! I like to watch RSPCA animal rescue but there was some dodgey new AFL show on instead

The ability, maybe.. But some are born with the tendency. Of course i am not denying that upbringing - including socialisation from a puppy's mother and litter mates and beyond - plays an enormous part in a dogs temperament, but most comes from genetics. JMHO coming from not only my personal experience but from those around me and studies that i have completed and from extra research and readings because frankly i do find the topic fascinating. Still just an opinion - which I thought was held by most (as i said in my first post in this thread) but it seems not!

So you think majority of dogs who display aggression do so purely because they were born that way? You don't think the way we raise, socialise and train our dogs plays a significant part in the way our dogs behave? A puppy who is attacked by another dog in their fear period, and starts to exhibit dog aggression as a result, was born that way and the behaviour was not something that was influenced by a bad experience in it's most crucial development phase? 80% of a dog's brain develops by the time it's 16 weeks of age, we know enough about the way dogs develop to understand the importance of appropriate socialiation during their critical development phase. Take two puppies from the same litter. Put one in a home where it is not socialised outside of the home, that does not leave the house until it's at least 16 weeks (fully vaccinated). Whose owners do not commit much if any time to training their dog. Whose first experience outside of the home is being taken to a busy dog park where a group of bigger dogs rush to the gate the moment it comes in and crowd over it. Put one puppy in a home where it's owners are quite dog savvy and ensure it is socialised adequately from the day it is bought home at eight weeks. Pup is taken out and about, exposed to many different positive experiences and is engaged in training from day one. Pup is introduced to friendly dogs in a controlled environment. Both puppies come from the same breeding, the same litter, were for the first eight weeks raised in the same way. Yet do you think both puppies will grow into the same, confident, happy, well adjusted and well behaved adult dogs? Does one have a better chance than the other or are they both going to be the same regardless because they both came from good breeding and that's enough to guarantee our dogs will grow up to be good canine citizens? Hence, i said mostly. Mostly Samoyeds are caring, trustworthy, loyal, and snuggly because those that displayed these qualities have been chosen for years over those that don't. Mostly Samoyeds will not show signs of aggression - no matter how they are brought up - new owner, kenneled dogs, dog savvy owners etc etc. I say mostly for the sake of this discussion... but i've actually never met one that doesn't display this quality. Because it is in their genetic make up and has been for years. But i say mostly because i guess if a dog was treated extremely poorly it would lose it's trust of mankind... however, i believe it could easily be rehabilitated because, genetically, they are not that way. If it is true that this dog had never attacked or shown signs of aggression before (as some reports have stated) then i don't feel it has anything to do with upbringing. It sounds more like a neurological disorder. Did something happen to you DA dog to make him DA? and regardless (snigger) of this, have you had much luck training the dog aggression out of him? Edit: Sorry i forgot to answer your initial question - yes i feel that the majority of dogs that show aggression are this way because they are born that way. Not only, but mostly. But yes i agree that with training they have a better chance, and with the right owner they might never be aggressive (but they are born with the tendency, so in the wrong hands it would be bad) In the same way that we all agree that no breed is bad, only the owners.

Is not a word. But it is a scientific fact that a dog's temperament is mostly genetic... I didn't know that there was much of a question about it. Most vets/breeders/researchers agree on this. No it may not be in all lines of a particular breed, but temperament is mostly determined by that of the dogs in it's pedigree. Whether that be shy, aggressive, friendly etc.

That's a very good point. No, there may not be elevated bowls in the wild -as someone stated earlier- but there wouldn't be bowls at all! If the dog is lying down, then its head is almost level with it's body, something that can only be created by elevating a bowl. *If* the act of having to lower the head below the body/stomach to eat has something to do with bloat (which no one knows, but it's certainly one of the many theories i've heard) then why not try elevating them if you have a deep chested breed prone to bloat can't hurt!

I really don't understand. No one was having a go at anyone...

Did you also get this feeling from the discussion Huski and i had? I must say i highly enjoyed it.. I didn't go to bed till late last night despite having an exhausting weekend and having an early start this morning, but i was looking forward to reading the reply and couldn't let it go and had to keep replying. Huski and I are friends on Facebook and chat casually, frequently in the Spitz Breed forum... but i love a good debate and neither Huski or I gave in and continued (and continue!) to have different opinions on the matter. Happypaws, where do i fit in the hierarchy of DOL? I once felt that i was being ganged up on by a few in a very heated discussion and my name (bindii) was used in someone's 'made up story' of a frustrating puppy buyer... Long story, something about microchips containing the name of the breeders and i was all for it... but it resulted in posts going *poof* by the magical fairies of DOL... a few months later when i went looking for who it was that was being a complete.. doofus... in that thread, is someone that i have since had many interesting conversations with and very often agree with. Only, in that particular discussion we had very different opinions! If we all agreed on everything, how boring would life be?!

Longboat I completely see where you are coming from with regards to training. It enhances my view even more that if the average dog owner chooses to use one for a pleasureable walk-if the dog is comfortable and understands they should not pull while wearing it- why must they cease using it one day? I have two dogs who are obedience trained, perfect offlead heeling and have great recall at obedience, but do you recall a thread a wrote recently about my dog who chased a rabbit and just missed being hit by two cars? Of course I thought I had him under 100% effective control and that I had done everything to prevent a situation like this. When it came to the crunch, I was wrong.. I never used a halti... Rope choker and martingale and as a said, offlead work too.

Many happy puppies do that the first time a flat collar and lead is put on them too. How do you explain the people on here that have completely contented happy dogs walking with a head collar on? Excited to see the collar come out for a walk? Happily allowing their owner to apply it? I just want to add again - i don't use a head collar, and i don't recommend them myself (to clients) because i think there are other avenues that can be taken before using one, but when someone is at their whits end... i mean, common on... as i've said repeatedly, it's their family dog, they just want to enjoy a nice walk, they don't want to obedience title their dog, they'll be lucky to teach it to sit, but the dog will live a wonderful happy life with a loving family who play with it and feed it and if the dog is happy with it on, what is the problem? Owning a dog to me is my whole entire life. Everything i do revolves around them but the fact is, it is not like that for everyone. I have ferrets too, and yes they are very cool and i take very good care of them and they get everything a ferret needs... but did you know that people train the ferrets to do tricks, and they have racing competitions, and there are official breeders and BYBers, and society meetings every month? am i there? Nope.. but i'm there for the dog ones! Am i awful for not teaching my ferrets to ever not nip my feet? No, i just wear socks. Some might feel i've never met the needs of my ferrets, and that i was very lazy to not ever completely train them not to nibble toes, but they're happy, i'm happy with my socks on... why can't someone and their dog be happy with a head collar?