Dame Aussie

I'm curious, Can you define what you mean by "live in kennels". SSM described her situation which is a very common one for multiple dog households. IMO dogs in this situation do not live in kennels. Some single dog families have a dog that lives its life locked in a backyard while its humans rarely venture out there, or spend entire days crated, or locked in a bathroom or laundry. But to many this is acceptable. For many people and this includes Breeders there is a necessity to be able to secure or isolate a dog or multiple dogs at times. A secure kennel run or building is often the most viable solution. I certainly could not imagine not having secure facilities available if they are needed. A secure kennel run is IMO preferable to leaving an animal locked in a room or crate. Kennel runs/complexes do not need to be ammonia ridden prison cells. They can be secure but airy, comfortable pleasant places for dogs to spend some time. Have such facilities does not necessarily equate to the animals living in them 24/7. I was referring to the OP where Steve stated "Minimum pen sizes are tiny and dogs only have to get 20 mins a day out of them - which is also impossible to police." I would have no issue whatsoever with dogs being in kennels at times. I just don't believe that should be where they are kept the majority of the time.

Yep. I worked in a big pound and it just wouldn't be feasible to have grassed runs. You need to be able to disinfect properly otherwise you end up with outbreaks of Parvo and the like..

We went to Hobsons Bay for puppy school with both our guys, it was really good! Also as you said, a great vet clinic. I don't have any other recommendations sorry.

Point to where I said that a dog I rehomed could never end up somewhere undesirable? Best we can do with anything that relates to the future is to minimize risk. And some considerable effort is made in that direction. Certainly was in the case of the rehomed little dog I've cited. If anything less than that was not available, then a totally different scenario exists to make ethical decisions on. So you are admitting that the dog you rehome against the owners wishes could end up in a poor home? Which would be the exact reason the friend wanted the dog PTS, so that could never happen. If you rehome you are now admitting it could happen. Which was my point entirely. If I choose to make sure it can never happen then that's my choice, all risk is gone. But you don't have the right to decide how much risk is acceptable to you when it's someone else's dog. Not your choice to make. I think it has to be really discussed if you want a dog to go with you Aussie, I don't think you can spring something like that on a friend. Oh yeah, definitely. This is assuming the person had come to me and asked me to put their dog down because they can't guarantee a good home, I would then do exactly that and the munchkin would be destined for spoildom :laugh:

What if it stated that thy wanted you to arrange PTS in their will? You haven't said yes but it is now your responsibility. If it was me, I would not promise to do it in the first place, I would tell the person honestly if I disagreed and why it would be hard for me. If the dog was elderly it wouldn't be as much of a problem. If I was asked to in a will it would entirely depend on the circumstances, and quite honestly I'm not sure if I could do it, or if I could live with myself not doing it. There are probably 5 people in my life who I would do anything for so in that case I would keep the dog myself so it wouldn't even be an issue.

Exactly why I don't like Merle to Merle breeding, even if allowed. Poor boy. I'm sure there would be hope for him but it really would depend on the new home and how much work they're willing to do with him, and how much time they have, he couldn't go to someone who worked long hours and the like.

Oh Anne I only just saw this, I'm so, so sorry RIP Monte, from the Pugs I have known, I imagine Pug heaven is a pretty awesome place.

:laugh: sounds just like my Aussie, they would be besties :D

He's a Coolie! As if :laugh: bring it on :laugh:

Very true Jo. I can definitely understand the position and even sympathise to a degree, I just think it would be good if they had made an effort to rehome before making that decision. As for it being cruel or not, I don't think it's cruel in the sense that the dog suffered, I think we see it as cruel because that's how we as humans perceive it, maybe? I dunno, just really sad.

You're the one banging your discordant drum. You've made a judgement about a dead woman and her family based on a Daily Mail Online article. Wow. The woman is DEAD. She made a decision based on the dog she knew. You didnt know the dog but you take it upon yourself to call her an arrogant, self centred and self righteous person. You dont know her either! This matter should never have made the tabloids. Funerals are private matters and the fact this has ended up with death threats to the son at this time as well as a Vet assistant is just disgraceful! Pretty much this. I did say that things aren't as simple when it comes to a guide dog as it probably would have a safe future. But the rest of my comments were about the blanket condemnation of wanting to make sure your dog will never suffer. My shih tzu is coming with me no question, he's getting old and has done his time in the pound. My coolie is a lot younger and if I die tomorrow he would have probably another 12 years. I know none of my family can take him if I die so who would like to put their hand up to guarantee him a permanent home for the next 12 or so years? Who should I put down as taking him on, full name for the will please :laugh: I'll take him! :)

But not all dogs can adapt to being in a new place away from their owners. I know of some who have adapted, but some don't. I think the original owner knows best whether their dog would be happy being re-homed or not. By this same logic though, dogs that are dumped by their owners at pounds are also better off dead because they too could be mourning the loss of their family and "suffering" without them. I've actually had a greyhound surrendered to me from a pet home and the poor girl didn't eat for a week, she was terribly heartbroken. Until a few weeks later when she'd forgotten about them entirely, was eating like a horse and very happy. She just needed time to settle into the new routine in the new place and that was it. Dogs aren't attached to us in the same way that we're attached to them. Anthropomorphising them does them no good, especially when it ends this way- with a healthy, young dog, dead. Exactly. We can't get up in as about shelters euthing healthy rehomeable dogs then say this is ok.

I couldn't count how many times I've heard that. Just because you have a baby doesn't mean everything else in your life disappears :laugh:

I don't think dogs should live in kennels. If I wanted to breed and had to keep them in kennels to do so, I just wouldn't go ahead with it.

It's one of my worst fears, I'm glad Puck"s ok Kirislin, very scary! Mosley got a piece of bone stuck up in the roof of his mouth once, I had to stick my whole hand in his mouth and yank it out, he was so good, bless him. I think Lili would have chomped down, the bitch :laugh:

I have had 5 dogs so far in my life. Pedigree Boxer - Healthy, robust dog, died at 11 from brain cancer. 2x backyard bred dogs, littermates, Chi x JRT mated with a Maltese mix. One had both patellas done and was PTS due to a brain tumour at 17, other had no health issues throughout her life and was PTS shortly after her brother went, she was deaf, blind and had dementia so quality of life was gone. Currently I have a Pedigree Aussie and an Anatolian x Maremma rescue. Both healthy dogs, the Anatolian goes to the vet more as he has allergies and eye issues in Spring, the Aussie no issues, touch wood! IMO we are talking about living animals, nothing can or will be perfect and it comes down to the individual animal. I like having a PB who has had health tests done etc, but it wouldn't put me off another rescue.

I just couldn't take the risk, not that I'm a breeder anyway :laugh:

Really? It shouldn't be allowed. Stay away from those breeders as they're obviously either dodgy or clueless.

What if they aren't? Then put the dog down, least they would have given it a go, isn't it better to see whether they're right before killing the dog?

Yes, exactly.

??? Just pointing out that some people believe their dog could never be rehomed and sometimes they're wrong about that. Shame a dog had to die when it could have gone on enjoying life and making someone else really happy. I think it's a selfish act.

What if the owner is wrong?

Doesn't make it right, or decent.

Yep crazy dog lady here

It will only work, as with all animal management laws, if it is actually policed.