DerRottweiler

No, but they can be very, very inhumane. I have a friend serving in Afghanistan at the moment, he asked a local why none of the dogs have ears, apparently it makes them more aggresive having their ears cut off. The dog fighting problem s endemic in many muslim countries and in Afghanistan it is a public holiday for the biggest dog fighting day of the year, apparently by the end of the day 100,s of dogs are killed and maimed. Religiously sanctioned animal abuse is stil abuse. When the taliban came to power in Afghanistan, the pets were rounded up and taken from peoples houses and burned on a large pyre by the religious zeolots. I read a book about a family who managed to smuggle their dogs out just before the dog killings began. The koran however has a subclause about dogs, it says about all dogs being unclean except Salukis, who are classed as the hound of Allah and not really dogs but something very special and quite okay to share a tent with. The abuse isn't sanctioned by religion. Dogs aren't to be kept as pets, unless they are some sort of working dog. That is the rule. There is no rule that says, hurt dogs etc. But it is true about fighting dogs in South/Central Asia, part of the culture (as opposed to religion) is to fight them. I was surprised when I came to learn of the ''Bully Kutta'', apparently this dog could easily take a APBT in the pit.

It is good to see you are willing to research and learn prior to making any decisions. There are legal issues with having a trained protection dog(s) on a premises that acts as a retail outlet and your insurer for public liability would also have issues with this. You could perhaps address this with having a trained security guard on site to handle the dog(s). What exactly will the function of the dogs be? To deal with drunk customers who show aggression, or to prevent theft etc? Doesn't seem necessary in my opinion, I've never seen a liquor store with protection trained dogs before. But it is your store and your choice. In terms of the training itself, not all dogs are cut out for it, even working breeds. A temperament test would need to be conducted and if the dog were to pass, then you could proceed with protection work and even then, you won't have proper protection dogs within a few months, it takes lots of dedication and effort. This site should be more useful for your inquiries: http://www.specialistcanines.com/forums.php

Meh. Different cultures, different beliefs. Least they don't eat em ey?

tl;dr Somebody quote the best few lol.

I would say 8-12 hours, depending on what time I finish up my daily business and get back from the gym. Although, there is usually someone home, so realistically, he'd only be alone for 6 hours or so tops. Do dogs have a sense of time? Do they know you've been gone for ages? Or does it make no difference 2 hours or 8 hours?

Hmm just don't get dobbed in by someone who mistakes you for a terrorist! lawl.

We've been saying all along that such dogs should not be 'overly' aggressive....

Not that I think you really mean what you saying, clearly it is not a case of shit happens. I do not have a small dogs, so no small dog syndrom here. for that matter I may not even have a dog with me at all and be in the dog park. If I ask someone to call their dog away from me and I claim to be frighten and beleive the dog is going to bite me, and the owner fails to call that dog away from me. It will not be a matter of shit happening in the real world. Out of control dogs are out of control dogs, anywhere and any size dog, even out of control big dogs that have big dog syndrom. lol what are you smoking cuz. Unfortunately, I am only limited to reading what I actually wrote, not what you think I wrote. Did I say out of control dogs are not out of control dogs? Or that there is not such thing as big dog syndrome? Here I will summarise in point form for you: 1: All dogs can be out of control, big, small, microscopic whatever. 2: These dogs WILL often frequent off-leash parks. 3: If you have a small dog, the threat from other dogs is greater when compared to the threat exhibited towards a big dog. 4: In light of the aforementioned threat, the safest option for the small dog owner is avoidance. No problem in taking the dog out if it is well mannered etc, but this does not eliminate external threat. Good day to you sir.

Yes small dog syndrome is the fault of the owner, due to poor training and socialisation. If your dog has small dog syndrome OR you are afraid of your dog getting attacked, then the solution really is to avoid such places, or, take them at quiet times, or lobby for a small dog only park. In the real world, off-lead park = giant, large, medium, small and toy breed dogs. Shit can happen due to no fault of your own, whether you are wise about it or not is really your own choice.

Yes misinformation is dangerouse. I know the ANKC has said they do not allow dogs to be trained for attack work on humans. Is it legal (all states or which ones) for anyone to train dogs for attack work on humans or is there some sort of government oversight of this sort of training? What is required to hang up your shingle? Can any one own a dog that had been trained to attack humans in Australia? Or do you have to be licensed, permits by governement, any oversignt at all on who owns these dogs? In Vic, at a minimum you need a security license. On top of that, the dog must be listed as dangerous with the council and have additional containment measures in place. Even then it is pretty hard to find a trainer, but there are a few good guys around. Othen then that, there is Eagle Heights Sch. Club, but they are always full and i believe they don't do bitework.

A level of "go" beyond the use as a companion animal doesn't comply with the breed standards either No better than the all "show" one's except at the other end of the spectrum when looking at the breed in an overall perspective. But the point is, it's a complete misconception IMHO, that only aggressive difficult to handle dogs are better workers than the well balanced dog. Many of these over sharp, civil dogs can't pass a Schutzhund test, can't pass an inspection, can't be walked in public without constant correction. They do bite well with courage and fighting drive, but so does a well balanced working dog, the dog which I call "extreme" in aggression doesn't do the job better, it's just more difficult to handle and control. A good dog needs some sharpness and civil drive along with some rank drive to provide some trainablility and handler focus and prey drive. A dog of that balance and again this just my perception, is far better dog overall than a dog driven entirely by sharpness, civil and defence. The only advantage I see in a truely sharp civil dog, is faster light ups and takes less training to generate the fight in the dog...........other than that, they are a pain in the butt to handle & trust. again, where are you getting over-sharp etc from. This has nothing to do with the dogs in question.......the topic isn't is a sharp dog a good working dog. The topic is, is it okay for working dogs to have a degree of aggression in them and have it advertised that way.....right? I think you agree with what we are saying, you are just going off on your on tangent that has nothing to do with the dogs in question, wtih 'over-sharp' and 'extreme aggression', neither of which are mentioned in the ad...

No, and as I have said earlier, I don't know of too many breeders who think that is the case either. Certainly the ad in question does not suggest that these dogs are extreme in aggression, quite the opposite, just that they are not suitable for pet homes. Whilst aggression might have a part to play in this (if not competently handled), the bigger issue is that working line dogs necessarily have more drive than most pet homes can provide outlets for. The litter in question is a line-breeding on one of those classic working dogs you mentioned, and very closely related to your own pup. Passing a BH is no guarantee that anything that dog produces will fit in well in a pet home. Some have mentioned the breeder and litter in this debate, but personally, I don't know them or be inclined to critisize their dogs or practices as such, from my perspective I am looking at a general overview of advertising extreme aggression being the supposed ultimate of a working GSD breeding. As a man stopping yard dog I agree that extreme aggression and sharpness would make a fantastic yard worker, but IMHO, that's about where it ends. I don't believe that the GSD is the best breed for that purpose either, but that's another story. Offshoots in the ideal GSD temperament are plentiful from soft weakness to over aggression and everything in between with too many excuses and reasons why "balance" is missed. This breeding is only for pet homes and the other is only for working/security homes are not "balanced" GSD's as they should be, but extremes at each end. A "good" GSD regardless if the breed may be unsuitable for some people, should be able to do it all, and a companion animal is one of those roles. It doesn't and shouldn't mean that a dog capable of security/protection work can't be a pet. If can't be a loyal and trustworthy pet at least with it's primary handler, there is something far wrong with that breeding IMHO Extreme aggression is NOT being advertised here. If you have seen the soft temperaments of some show line dogs, you would understand that the ad is making sure people know this breeding is NOT like that. I agree that an ideal GSD litter would have some that are suited to companions, some sport and some security, if you go by the breed standard where the GSD is a jack of all trades. The reality is that this is not often the case. There are many who cater for the show/pet scene. This ad is catering for the security etc sector. Key point. Do not know where people are plucking extreme aggression from. And yes the ideal GSD would be a bit of everything and there are a few dogs going around with these qualities, but most are all show and no go, too far from the breed standard...

Well yeah there are annoying SWFs that think they are alpha (small dog syndrome). But when I take my dog to the off-leash park, I'm not exactly scared of him getting mauled lol. I think the best solution in this case is avoidance, sucks but means your dog won't get attacked. Like others have said, take the dog out during quiet times, or find somewhere else to take it. Maybe a small-dog only off-leash park is a good idea, or small-dog park in general.

True that. Stupid Eagle Heights club.......they've been full since forever lol.

I'm sorry then, what type of "drive" were you talking about if you don't mean prey drive, and don't mean aggression? It's interesting to hear different people's views on what working dogs "should" be like. But when it comes down to it, and no offence intended to anyone here, I agree it does make sense to take the word of people with real life experience in handling police & security dogs. And the ones I have talked to appear to have no hesitation in decribing their dogs as having "aggression". I will email the Poilce Dog handler and post his reply! I do hope that will suffice as experience! I have no interest in this breed just wanted to correct the notion of all Police Dogs must have agression ( Which is not how they are trained!) lol, funny, because a police dog trainer/handler is commenting in this thread all along.... And all of you saying the dogs will show too much aggression, no idea where you got that from, the ad also says balance, meaning it is in-check with other drives, making a complete working dog.

It will enjoy outside in the right location......you said yourself, your dog looks like a rabbit, why risk it. I think the other dog was playing and you are paranoid, but if it wasn't playing, why risk it.

Where the heck does the ad say anything about ''explosive uncontrolled aggression"? Those dogs are proper working GSDs, yes there are many different types of working GSDs for different purposes. Even the show GSD should have a degree of working ability. The problem is, many of the GSDs today are of weak nerve and have no working ability, the breed is being ruined!

Don't take your dog in off-leash areas. Don't take your dog in areas where there will be other dogs. Kthnxbai.

its not the overall breed its some lines. Difference. They have a real world application and need in society. If the breeders are not selling them to Jo Bloggs then whats the issue with it? The public appreciate dogs doing jobs but they understand they are 'different' to pet ones. I still dont see how this is a confusing issue for so many people. Which goes back to my original question, do people who own and use attack dogs really shop on DOL for their next dog? Really??? And of course you can word that this way too...do people who breed and train attack dogs really offer them for sale on DOL? I guess the answer is yes on both counts. And next time I need an attack dog I will know where to shop for it! As I said I will go back under my rock of blissful ignorance. Given what you've displayed so far, you'd be knocked back from getting your ''attack'' dog. Not every John Smith can acquire one, let alone handle and train one.

Know nothing about guard dogs (is that the right word for their work?) but have a question, does the military or do hard protection handlers/trainers shop for dogs on DOL? Edited to say...Opps I see they are called Hard Protection dogs..sorry about the use of the word guard. lol. Is DOL a non-working dog forum now? People who need working dogs will obviously use DOL as a means to acquire them, not sure if you know exactly how military/police dogs are actually acquired, but most of them are from normal breeders (even show lines sometimes), and there are general security firms who would also seek out such dogs, not to mention, working dog enthusiasts. Interesting to know the military shops for their hard protection dogs on DOL. I would have thought they would have had connections with breeders who only work in this type of dog. Even using show dogs for this sort of work, very interesting indeed. I am just so surprised that dogs for such a potentially dangerous interface with the public, would be so randomly acquired. Anyway back to under my rock where the unknowing should always stay on DOL. I wouldn't call it random, only the best of the best are picked.

Know nothing about guard dogs (is that the right word for their work?) but have a question, does the military or do hard protection handlers/trainers shop for dogs on DOL? Edited to say...Opps I see they are called Hard Protection dogs..sorry about the use of the word guard. lol. Is DOL a non-working dog forum now? People who need working dogs will obviously use DOL as a means to acquire them, not sure if you know exactly how military/police dogs are actually acquired, but most of them are from normal breeders (even show lines sometimes), and there are general security firms who would also seek out such dogs, not to mention, working dog enthusiasts.

I wouldn't say those are all myths... 1: They can be, in the wrong hands. Because the breed is a large breed, this can make them dangerous. That is, they aren't inherently dangerous, but the potential is there. 2: A working Rottweiler is a good guard dog. 3: They can be very dominant and hard to handle, not in general, but I've met a few.

lol. Poor dog. I bet the other dogs will laugh at it.

Good posts above again. I think this is just a case of politcal correctness gone mad. God forbid we use the words aggressive and dog in the right context. How about sooky and zero working drive instead!

Perhaps the advert wording is not the problem but your own perception of the word 'aggression'? Given aggression is a natural part of the dog psyche, how is it that aggression is not a natural part of the GSD Can you explain why aggression is not constituent? nb: The advert also contained these words: natural drive; balance. Good post.