DerRottweiler

My ex SIL once told me that it was 'disgusting' and 'unhealthy' to allow my dogs inside the house. She NEVER had dogs (or any animals) in her house but i can tell you it was my house that was cleaner by a long shot. You could go in their house and find food from a couple of days ago sitting on the stove, dishes stacked and covered in food, their toddler would always be walking around with food and dropping it on the carpet and squishing it in. Their house smelt awful, looked awful and there was no way I would eat food that was prepared there. However, she must have been 'hygienic' because if her son touched my dogs then she would make him wash his hands because apparently they are so disgusting and full of germs. I'd agree with your ex SIL. The fact that she wasn't clean in other aspects negates her overall point, but generally speaking she is correct.

That is so disgusting! I've noticed, a lot of 'dog people' aren't big on hygiene. This is more evidence of it.

I doubt the police will actually put the dog down, too much training would have gone into it. When in work mode the dog is supposed to be wary of suspicious behaviour....a kid running around, is just that.

Flawed logic. You can't say, I have Mental Illness X and would not do such a thing, whereas the person involved, may have Mental Illness X, Y or Z and must therefore not also have the capacity to do such a thing. She may or may not have mental illness, she might not care all together. Or she has been brought up in a culture that doesn't care for dogs. Now, keeping in mind that I am not defending her actions as right in any way, but; Not all countries/cultures see animals (dogs) in the same way as the western world, and there are plenty of people out there who would think that to be a perfectly acceptable way of "disposing of" an unwanted litter. Just as some people in our culture would think it okay to drown a rat, or to poison one with ratsack so that they die a horrible painful death. Because it's just a rat right? Hmmmm not to those who keep them as pets.. Of course it's wrong and barbaric, but there is a good possibility that the girl is not doing it for the pleasure of it, but simply because she has been raised to think this is "normal". Good point. I suppose we value some animals more than others (like you said, nobody would have cared if they were rats, or some form if insect). I think because they are puppies and pretty powerless people are pretty upset, their innocence is a factor too. In parts of Asia, they eat dogs, I have no problem with this, provided the dogs are treated in a humane manner. Are you not aware that in Asia and primarily CHINA....they actually break every bone in a dog's body in order to inflict as much pain as possible in the belief that the more the dog suffers the better it will taste and that whilst suffering it releases endorphins that they believe will do them (the people) good? Hardly humane, not to mention that they are also known to skin dogs alive for their fur? Mmm yes I am aware of this, hence 'provided they are treated in a humane manner'. The same applies to cattle and sheep. If you are eating an animal, make sure it is slaughtered humanely.

Well, some might tell you that, but are they right? A presumably reputable police dog trainer recently told me that the aim in proofing was to trigger the dog into defence or fight drive, whatever you want to call it. I gathered it was a nice way of saying "the dog should be seriously concerned for its wellbeing", because in the line of duty that's exactly what may happen, and they have to know the dog will react in the way that they need it to react. I think we have to be careful not to mix up the emotion behind a behaviour and how the dog reacts to it. Erik is a moderately proactive dog, so when he feels a little pressured he may well behave aggressively, whereas Kivi might feel the same level of pressure and do nothing. That reaction is obviously wildly different between both dogs, but how do we know it's not driven by the same emotional disturbance in both dogs? Incidentally, I'm sure it was a Ted Turner dvd I was watching that had a nice little flow chart including states that led to aggression. Frustration and rage where in there, I believe. Neither of those are fear-based. Training in defence drive is exactly that Corvus, the dog is pressured to fight for it's life basically and gains the courage to engage and fight learned by winning which consequently releasing the pressure that has been applied to the dog. The difference is, a truly fearful dog will retreat under pressure and a courageous dog won't, but they both display aggressive reactions that are fear based. Are they both fear aggressive, or is it only the dog that retreats under pressure considered fear aggressive??? This isn't always the case though. Some dogs just think 'who are you to even try and scare me, I'm not scared of you, i'll kill you.' But what is driving that emotion DerRottweiler???. Is it civil aggression, social dominance, fear based defence aggression or sharpness???. Fiona It could be either of those things Fiona, my point was, it isn't always 'fear' as such. I know some dogs that are just mean, they will engage an agitator, because he is 'annoying' or 'challenging' them. Not because they are scared and must protect themselves (although most dogs I've seen would initially act out of fear). It makes for a very interesting topic.

Or she has been brought up in a culture that doesn't care for dogs. Now, keeping in mind that I am not defending her actions as right in any way, but; Not all countries/cultures see animals (dogs) in the same way as the western world, and there are plenty of people out there who would think that to be a perfectly acceptable way of "disposing of" an unwanted litter. Just as some people in our culture would think it okay to drown a rat, or to poison one with ratsack so that they die a horrible painful death. Because it's just a rat right? Hmmmm not to those who keep them as pets.. Of course it's wrong and barbaric, but there is a good possibility that the girl is not doing it for the pleasure of it, but simply because she has been raised to think this is "normal". Good point. I suppose we value some animals more than others (like you said, nobody would have cared if they were rats, or some form if insect). I think because they are puppies and pretty powerless people are pretty upset, their innocence is a factor too. In parts of Asia, they eat dogs, I have no problem with this, provided the dogs are treated in a humane manner.

Well, some might tell you that, but are they right? A presumably reputable police dog trainer recently told me that the aim in proofing was to trigger the dog into defence or fight drive, whatever you want to call it. I gathered it was a nice way of saying "the dog should be seriously concerned for its wellbeing", because in the line of duty that's exactly what may happen, and they have to know the dog will react in the way that they need it to react. I think we have to be careful not to mix up the emotion behind a behaviour and how the dog reacts to it. Erik is a moderately proactive dog, so when he feels a little pressured he may well behave aggressively, whereas Kivi might feel the same level of pressure and do nothing. That reaction is obviously wildly different between both dogs, but how do we know it's not driven by the same emotional disturbance in both dogs? Incidentally, I'm sure it was a Ted Turner dvd I was watching that had a nice little flow chart including states that led to aggression. Frustration and rage where in there, I believe. Neither of those are fear-based. Training in defence drive is exactly that Corvus, the dog is pressured to fight for it's life basically and gains the courage to engage and fight learned by winning which consequently releasing the pressure that has been applied to the dog. The difference is, a truly fearful dog will retreat under pressure and a courageous dog won't, but they both display aggressive reactions that are fear based. Are they both fear aggressive, or is it only the dog that retreats under pressure considered fear aggressive??? This isn't always the case though. Some dogs just think 'who are you to even try and scare me, I'm not scared of you, i'll kill you.'

Seriously depressing stories. The picture of Hobo is really sad, but it is nice to see the other photo where he is back to good health. I don't get why people would 'not feed' a dog...it doesn't make sense? Are they trying to kill the dog, punish it....can't afford it? It is pretty amazing how strong dogs are to survive such poor conditions.

That was seriously depressing. She probably has some form of mental illness.

I agree. I think there may be an underlying 'nuisance' related issue.

Rottweiler. You will not find a more noble or loyal dog.

Indigo who's the boss you or the dog. You are the pack leader and the dog does as you say. You also say this....she heels when I insist. Well insist she doesn't dig. You also say she isn't destructive in the house....of course not, you can get to her quickly to correct her. Now nobody tell me I don't know what I am talking because I do. 1. Instructor at obedience 2. Titled dogs in obedience 4. Passes at Best in Trial level 5. Held an obedience judges licence. When you find the dog digging, run towards her making loud noises. Push her to the ground and roll her around manhandling her. This is what the pack leader would do if she disobeyed. Let her know it is wrong to dig. If that fails think up things that are displeasing so that when she digs she will blame herself for it. It's also very easy with electric collars. Put one on her and let go out side and when start to dig zap her. If you are not standing close to her and do this every time she starts to dig she will soon blame herself. Make the dog blame herself for digging. She will soon learn that digging brings bad results for her and she will think she causes it and should stop. Just make sure you are well away from the dog when she gets zapped in this case you want the dog to blame herself. If you want the dog to blame you and see you as pack leader, try the first method. I agree with this post. You can stop wrong behaviours, the dog will associate digging with your displeasure. Tell the dog what to do...(or not to do) and it must comply. So how is manhandling or shocking a dog telling the dog "what not to do". It's just an assault for no reason that's clear to the dog. If the dog is already digging, it probably wont' even know why you did it. There's no command, no cue, no required behaviour being taught. Indeed, the poster who recommends using a shock collar you shouldn't be near the dog at all. Pack leader dogs don't beat up other dogs for doing what is natural, non-confrontational undirected behaviour. The analogy doesn't wash with me. How does "leadership" get involved when you want the dog to "blame itself" for doing something wrong. This is a perfect illustration of why "obedience training" and "behaviour modification" should not be considered to be an automatically complementary set of skills. Having an OC Obedience dog doesn't necessarily mean you know anything about modifying unwanted self rewarding dog behaviour. Hell I can think of at least one multi state title winning obedience trialler whose dogs could not be reliably recalled under even low distraction outside the ring. Conversely, I can think of very talented behaviorists who will never darken a trialling ring. A correction would have to be swift and precise (i would try verbal first). Obviously the dog needs to know that the digging is resulting in the problem. It would need to be timed very carefully so that the dog can make the association that digging=wrong. Once it knows you that said behaviour is wrong and STILL continues to do it, then you have leadership problems. To clarify I wouldn't blame the dog itself. ETA: My original post is edited to reflect my position better.

Yep, I have found the same thing. It keeps it a much lower key affair. My boys both come back to me if they are uncomfortable. I would have tackled the Lab. Much easier to catch and once you've got him the little dog is out of immediate danger and can then be picked up if required or simply put back on leash. If it's on leash and the Lab tries to menace it again, it can't bolt and you can crouch down and protect it as above. Better for everyone as the Lab doesn't get the fun of chasing and the SWF doesn't get the terror of being chased. Often the small dog can come around and decide they aren't so scared of the big dog after all. IME if you are going to pick up a dog at the dog park you should do it when no other dogs are watching. If they see the dog in your arms but didn't see it get there they seem to be less excited by it, although it's still no guarantee. One time my dogs found a dead possum in the yard. They were quite interested, but only poking it with their noses. The moment I lifted part of it off the ground they both got extremely excited and started to bite and try to play tug with it. As soon as I put it back on the ground they left it again. Weird, but it's the same sort of thing with small dogs sometimes. It's like when you pick it up it becomes a toy to bite and pull on. No way would I grab anyone's strange dog - its a fast recipe for a nasty bite. Kicking I would do and damn what the owner thought. If dogs are coming hard at your little one, I'll pick mine up regardless of whether or not dogs can see. I'd rather kick them off while they leap than watch them shake my dog to death like a rag doll, play tug of war with her or tear her to pieces. You do what you have to to keep your dog safe and bugger any lessons it's teaching other dogs. Training is for the dogs owners to do, not me. Anyone who lets their small dog run with stranger large dogs is asking for trouble IMO. Dogs don't even have to be aggressive - rough play injures and kills also. CW: If the incoming dog knocks you flat on your arse to get to your dogs CW, you'll be in no condition to help them. Stand up on your feet. It really doesn't matter if I'm standing up poodlefan.. i'm a shortie Most of the time I do squat but there are occasion where I do stand too.. it all depends on the situation and the dog that comes rushing towards Charlie. If a dog gets to much, I will clip the other dog with a spare leash I carry around and call it's owner to get their dog... Random: Your dogs names make me laugh. I picture them being pronounced in the Queen's accent.

Indigo who's the boss you or the dog. You are the pack leader and the dog does as you say. You also say this....she heels when I insist. Well insist she doesn't dig. You also say she isn't destructive in the house....of course not, you can get to her quickly to correct her. Now nobody tell me I don't know what I am talking because I do. 1. Instructor at obedience 2. Titled dogs in obedience 4. Passes at Best in Trial level 5. Held an obedience judges licence. When you find the dog digging, run towards her making loud noises. Push her to the ground and roll her around manhandling her. This is what the pack leader would do if she disobeyed. Let her know it is wrong to dig. If that fails think up things that are displeasing so that when she digs she will blame herself for it. It's also very easy with electric collars. Put one on her and let go out side and when start to dig zap her. If you are not standing close to her and do this every time she starts to dig she will soon blame herself. Make the dog blame herself for digging. She will soon learn that digging brings bad results for her and she will think she causes it and should stop. Just make sure you are well away from the dog when she gets zapped in this case you want the dog to blame herself. If you want the dog to blame you and see you as pack leader, try the first method. +1 agree with these ideas. +2 You can stop wrong behaviours, the dog will associate digging with your displeasure. Tell the dog what to do...(or not to do) and it must comply. If it doesn't listen (after it has made this association), you have no respect.

Don't anthropomorphise the dog. She isn't doing it on purpose. Focus on some training, the dog doesn't respect you, you need to catch her in the act and give her a swift correction. Don't be too upset, for the time being, maybe crate the dog when you cannot supervise her. I'm sure someone with actual experience can help you in terms of the corrective training.

How about a German Working Dog Club.....or a European Working Dog Club. (Don't want to ignore the Dutch Shepherds and Mals lol). Australia needs a strong shift away from soley show lines. Especially so for the GSD.

What a crock. These dogs are working dogs, they ought to be able to do Sch work (including bitework) and do it well. Not to mention, the less appealing registered breeders become, the ever more appealing do the BYBs become.

Do the protectors actually work? Like ZERO hairs settle on the seats.....? My dog is not allowed in any of my 'good' cars. Can't risk dog hairs/drool settling in everywhere (or anywhere!) He has a bomb for travelling purposes.

Yeah the reports are being sent off. So will update as to how we go.

Nobody good with x-rays lol?

Pics of scans:

Who is that? How do we go about it? What are we looking at in terms of costs?

I will have to find out more details in terms of sending the rads of for assessment. All I know is, the vet said, there are no signs of arthiritis, but the dog will most likely develop HD soon, even though he is only around 1.5. My friend said the vet didn't really seem confident.....

Hi guys, Scan results are attached, any input? They seem rather inconclusive IMO. Dog will be going to the chiro in Werribee this weekend..... Thanks.

What a nice story.