Alenkit

Thanks Alenkit, at this stage importing from overseas is still a pipe dream, but the eastern states option is probabaly likely. Just having touble deciding the best way to go, I know I can get frozen and have it handy when my bitch comes in where as chilled would require more planning with the timing of getting it across to Perth. Similar problem getting her to the male. My organizational skills need some honing. Might have to visit Steve and have a chat. I'd strongly recommend you do, especially if you go the frozen way. There is an issue with the amount. If you are sent 'a mating' the chances are big, it's not enough. There are different ways of calculating the amount required for one mating. Fresh semen can be used for up to quite a few days (they can put something in it to keep it alive for longer I believe) Good luck

Sorry - it's been a few days but I only saw this post just now. You said you had 10 pups each with vaginal AI's. Are you willing to tell me which vet you used? I am also in WA and am contemplating breeding a maiden bitch using frozen semen. I usually go to Applecross who now use the trans servical method to A.I.

This is a fairly difficult and emotive isse as a lot of people can get very passionate about raw versus commercial. I can't really tell you what the best solution is but I would like to adrress Point 3 of your question. In 2008 I bred 2 litters born 1 week apart. I fed both bitches raw only while they were pregnant. It was based on the 'raw meaty bones diet', e.g. chicken, mutton meaty bones and hearts and livers. Eggs, yoghurt and some left overs. I did not give a lot of other additives. Bitch number one ate everything I put in front of her. Bitch number two would only eat chicken. Bitch number one had 9 pups, one did not survive due to fluid in the lungs. Btich 2 had 6 pups, one did not survive (did not have a anal opening). Bitch number 1 started to self-wean her babies at 4 weeks old by eating her raw food (she favoured chicken) and then barf it up in the whelping box. She would make sure each pup had a good go at tearing and chewing before re-eating all left overs to make sure nothing was left behind. (I found this pretty awesome to watch). Bitch 2 did not do this. I started with raw mince (mixed with milk formula) for both litters at 4-5 weeks of age and both litters also had regular meals of chicken necks and later on chicken wings. I fed chicken because it is such a good way of getting calcium into the pups. Pups from bitch 2 were healthy without any problems as they grew up. 3 pups from bitch 1 developed severe canine atopy. Neither parent had ever produced it before or had it themselves. I have no idea if it had anything to do with the raw food but my vet is convinced that commercially produced chicken is the root of all evil. He says "grow the chicken in your backyard, chop it's head off and feed it to your dogs" but never give it commercially grown chicken. I don't know Bitch number 2 had another litter which I fed on Proplan (no raw at all as I had gotten very scared of raw chicken and pups) - again all her pups were healthy without problems - same as her first litter on raw There is a lot of merrit in feeding raw and I honestly don't know what caused my problems in the litter from bitch number 1. I tend to suspect either the raw food or the vaccinations as all pups first displayed signs a few weeks after vaccianting. However 3 pups with severe atopy in one litter is not a nice experience so I thought I'd give you the information I have just in case ........

The best success is CHILLED SEMEN. Yes, the success rate for Chilled is better than for fresh A.I.'s. Are you in Perth? If yes and if you want some more info on this, go talk to Steve Metcalf at Applecross. When you do, make sure you have a clear head, as he talks very fast, gives a lot of info in a short time - it's a bit like a mini lecture on fast forward but the info you get is excellent. He has done my one attempt at an A.I. with frozen, imported semen which produced 9 pups. He also gave me a lot of info before I started my venture with importing semen from Europe. I took his advice and did what he told me to: Make sure you get an entire 'take' not a 'mating' calculated by someone else Make sure you OWN the entire take - IN YOUR NAME - no contracts re paperwork to be supplied once you've done the A.I. (apparently causes no end of troubles) The Vet who collects and freezes is very, very important and after a long search I was only able to find one in the entire region, Belgium, Holland, Germany and the north of France. You need someone who understands the quarantine issues related to Australia and the paperwork that goes with it (most universities are totally useless ! ! because they want to use you as a teaching project and won't do the paperwork). I ended up looking for someone who had collected, frozen and exported semen to Australia producing life pups. One of your biggest problems will be to get the stud dog owner interested in helping you out. (mine had to travel from Germany and Belgium to Holland 3 times) They need to take the dog to the collecting vet at least 2 or 3 times (possibly a vet at considerable distance from where they live). While that is going on (30 days), they cannot use the dog to stud. Then they need to help with paperwork. I found that making contact and friendships with breeders overseas helps. USE A SEMEN IMPORTER TO DO THE IMPORTATION FOR YOU - don't try to 'clear' it yourself. You can import a life dog no problems but semen needs to be done by an expert. As they money? Start saving wheel barrows full. You need to pay for the collection and freezing, health clearances, bloodtests and paperwork. A stud fee or whatever your financial arrangements are with the stud owner but your biggest expense is the shipping of the semen. Having said all this - I still think it is the future of any breed that does not have plenty of line diversity in Australia (probably most breeds I would say). Sorry re typo's - I wrote this post in a hurry - apologies

That is considerably cheaper than what I pay. Are you in WA? If yes, which vet was that?

You are right and I always welcome a different perspective so thank you for taking the time ;) It did occur to me that having semen in storage is a little bit like having a dog there to use whenever you want it and you can't keep a (life) dog going for $150 a year I never, ever add up what each dog is costing me for fear of what the final figure may be :D

Oh Dear ! Sounds like Applecross may be the only viable option. The reason I pay $150 for some is because I have 2 takes from some of my imported dogs. However, I've used some from one and the price on that lot has not gone down so I'll give Clare a call and see what's happening. Still, if it is going to cost that much each year ........... I honestly feel that, particularly in my breed, frozen semen are the way forward. However, the cost of storing doesn't make it attractive to hang on to the semen to enable us to breed back to some older lines in years to come. I certainly will not contemplate importing more.

Wonder how long ago that was ? My frozen semen are at Applecross.

I called them last year to enquiry about freezing semen for Frozen Puppies. Their collection and freezing fee wat VERY high plus I was asked to pick up my own dry ice for the freezing of the seemen and bring it in a couple of eskies Sorry but that doesn't give me a lot of confidence as to the quality of their service and how secure my semen storage would be.

I got 2 invoices (usually do) one for the frozen semen which are imported (4 dogs) and one for my own dog who's semen I have frozen. The imported dog's invoice had an amount but my boy's semen invoice had no amount. The imported boys paperwork had the declaration missing which it say I must sign.

I have frozen semen stored from 5 dogs and have just received my annual account charging between $100 and $150 per dog (depending on amount of semen I guess). Total bill coming to approx $650. I would love to hear from other people who have frozen semen stored in Perth - where do you store it and how much are you charged per year?

Yep I agree. I also use Applecross and had 9 pups from a frozen A.I. (surgical) I was told that what you're looking for is the 'upward surge' (indication the bitch is ovulating) which may be at a different value for different bitches. They told me that one of the most important things was to start prog testing early so that a 'pattern' could be established for that particular bitch. Their reputation is excellent, I did as I was told and the result was there :-) Some one once told me that you can have all the knowledge in the world but that picking that 'just right' moment is also a bit of an art which may account for some vets getting it right a lot of the time ........ Fauvetnoir Belgians

Yes it does Charles, thank you so much.

I have now joined this group and am sure it will be extremely valuable for me. Thank you so much.

Thank you so much. Even tho the news on this site it not good - the information is extensive and excellent.