Heidii

what good lookin' babies!!! ....congrats!!

I have seen this!...wish my dog was that hypo!!

i'll be there

thanks kelpiechick! I have requested to join

Yes. It's about people who want to live with wild animals on the animals terms. I'm certainly not going to be dragging a roo carcass into my back yard and eating its liver first to ensure my dogs respect me. I don't see a direct comparison to establishing a bond of trust and respect with a domesticated dog. For a start, they don't want the wolves to function in their home or in society. I don't see them taking the wolves walking in public on a loose lead, expecting their wolves to tolerate the presence of strange people or wolves or obedience training them to recall on cue. well i think the principles are the same when it comes to you as the leader and your dog as the follower. JMO Was Shaun Ellis the leader of his pack of (captive) adult wolves? Not from the interviews I've read. He had to defer to at least some of the wolves to be "allowed" to remain with the pack. Interesting to read about, but not my idea of a good technique to use with my dog. Luckily, my dog isn't a wolf, so she's been bred for thousands of years to communicate with humans and look to humans for direction. she can communicate with humans can she?????.... How did you teach her to talk?

Yes. It's about people who want to live with wild animals on the animals terms. I'm certainly not going to be dragging a roo carcass into my back yard and eating its liver first to ensure my dogs respect me. I don't see a direct comparison to establishing a bond of trust and respect with a domesticated dog. For a start, they don't want the wolves to function in their home or in society. I don't see them taking the wolves walking in public on a loose lead, expecting their wolves to tolerate the presence of strange people or wolves or obedience training them to recall on cue. well i think the principles are the same when it comes to you as the leader and your dog as the follower. JMO So you would happily use techniques you have described on your own dogs? OF CORSE, I have said that!...but theres a difference, i dont have an agressive, untrustworthy dog...we have built up a relationship where he unders that i am pack leader and he is below me...and there are times that i intimidate him on purpose to reinforce that role....thats just one of MY techniques with training.

It has been added to the files in Agility Victoria list if you are on it - there is a problem with the format but I assume they will fix it soon I am not on this list, how can i get a copy of the schedual?

Yes. It's about people who want to live with wild animals on the animals terms. I'm certainly not going to be dragging a roo carcass into my back yard and eating its liver first to ensure my dogs respect me. I don't see a direct comparison to establishing a bond of trust and respect with a domesticated dog. For a start, they don't want the wolves to function in their home or in society. I don't see them taking the wolves walking in public on a loose lead, expecting their wolves to tolerate the presence of strange people or wolves or obedience training them to recall on cue. well i think the principles are the same when it comes to you as the leader and your dog as the follower. JMO

anyone seen this?

Ok then you people totally disagree and think wolves are nothing like our dogs we have at home, they arnt born with the same instinct etc....they dont live in packs like wolves either, and they certainly dont communicate the same, they dont even insticivly know anything about pack hierarchy.....ooookkk Domestic: Canis lupis familiaris Wolf: Canis Lupis Why do their scientific names state they are in the same family/genus and they are the same species???? Obviously their is no reason to keep debating this topic, you dont agree with the way i do this, fair enough, BUT NOW you even come up with statements saying dogs communicate differently from wolves to try and back yourself up....either your just being stubborn or your uneducated

Which wolf pack studies are you referring to? I'm interested in that too. You dont watch national geographic, animal plant or have even watched the "wolf man"......obviously not. here is a website on wolf communication - http://www.wolfweb.com/facts-communication.html "Wolves use body language and facial expressions to communicate with each other. Dominant wolves will freely look other animals directly in the eye, this declares and reinforces their superior rank." You tell me then, if this is not the case how do wolves communicate then????????

Most of those attributes aren't behaviours.. they influence them. Dogs do understand the "whats in it for me" principle.. the basis of all operant conditioning training. Desireable behaviours that are rewarded will increase in frequency. That's how 'reward' based training works. That's how recall training works.. you condition the dog to the point where it responds to the recall without thinking. Heidi, I don't have loose skin, protective fur, a head that can take a direct kick from a buffalo and survive or huge canines. I'm hardly going to use inter species dominance techniques on another species when I can use safer ones. Put your face near a pissed off or very dominant dog and ask for battle and sometimes that's exactly what you're going to get. You will lose. Dominance and intimidation keeps many a facial reconstruction surgeon in new BMWs. Why confront and intimidate when we can train to establish bonds of trust and respect. Respect is the product of a training process. You don't have to assault a dog to gain its respect.. and that is what some of the recommendations here are IMO. I didnt tell anyone to go and put their face near a pissed off dog...as i said before Huski made a statement and i went againest it, i even had pictures to back me up! Yes dogs do understand the "whats in it for me" principle and that is, if they are not apart of this pack and dont follow then they are left by myself without any food...being part of a pack is a reward...and that means listening to your pack leader and a pack leader shows dominance and reinforces it by intimidating all the other dogs! I dont assult by dog, i dont phycially hurt my dog at all....it all about INTIMIDATION! and i'll have to say it again, ITS NOT RECOMMENDED TO DO TO AN AGRESSIVE DOG THAT HAS ISSUES, i have built up this type of relationship with my dog since he was 8 weeks Can i ask how you would gain respect from your dog?...

But none of these things would encourage a dog to recall, if anything they would discourage it, a lot! Very dangerous advice Heidii, and a good way to (potentially) get your face ripped open. These are not things you recommend over the internet to anyone, let alone your average dog owner. If things are that bad in your relationship with your dog, get a behaviourist in to assess the dog in the home. I didnt recommend it.....Huski asked me a question, i answered it. I wouldnt expect an inexperience person to do this with a dog they dont know very well. Huski also said "To me, respect is not something that can be gained through intimidation or dominance. You can't force or scare a dog into respecting you"...i was just prooving to her that is not the case. Putting your mouth over your dogs muzzel is something that can be done to reienforce respect from your dog, one that you trust and one that trusts you....dont take this out of context....i also wouldnt expect anyone to do this to a dog that is trying to bite them, like DAH!

But none of these things would encourage a dog to recall, if anything they would discourage it, a lot! Its all in conditioning the dog to do as you say and to inforce your the pack leader and they have to listen to you. I personally use the above methods with my dog and he has a fantastic recall. You could say maybe his good recall is from other reasons but i personally think intimidation techniques helped.....he would not dared obey me now would he? To more respect a dog has for you wether you get the respect by ways mentioned above the better your chances at good recalls and other activities....not once has my dog ever run off on me. I am not saying this is gospel, this is my opinion and a conclusion i have come to over trial/error and research....this has worked for me and many other people I know who all have well trained dogs.

How does a dog learn to respect the pack leader in the wild?.....intimidation and dominance....the submissive dog also needs to have trust in the pack leader. Intimidation can be done in many different ways.....visually, vocally or physically. Visually by looking down on the dog, staring at the dog or making yourself appear bigger...pretending to 'rush' the dog and then walk the other way Vocally by growling Physically by scruffing, putting the dog on its back, standing over the dog, pushing, putting your mouth over your dogs muzzle I do some of these on a regualr basis to enforce who is boss...my dog knows the drill and happily surrenders. I found this made training my dog alot easier....i have done this since he was little and of corse at the start he tested me, but i never gave in. Here the alpha male has put his mouth over the lesser ranked dog. He is showing signs of dominace by intimidation. He isnt going to bite down and the submissive dog needs to trust that he wont, but of corse it is a very risky situation and not a comfortable one. Holding the submissive dog down - this dog is being intimidated by the pack leader Visually displaying dominant behavour...this alpha male is indimidating the lower ranked dog into submission You only need to look at a wolf pack to understand INTIMIDATION plays a BIG PART

I dont think this problem is in need of a behaviorlist, he simply needs to be made aware who is in charge and the owner is the one who needs to learn to inforce this effectivly and consistantly. His behaviour is common & used by dogs who think they are the boss...he/the owner doesnt need to spend $200+ to find this out. I disagree. What would you suggest if scruffing the dog to "show them whose boss" escalates the dog's behaviour like it did with my dog, because the dog takes you up on the challenge? What if the dog is stronger than you, or goes from growling/snapping to full on biting you? How do you scruff? There is a particular method. I have seen fully grown german shepherds scruffed and they have backed down.....simply scruffing and letting go doesnt work. The dog needs to be held down until it stops doing the unwanted behaviour just like what would happen in a pack situation... The elfa dog wont let the dog up UNTIL IT SURRENDERS. This is done just under the ear, near the side of the face, of corse easily done on a long haired dog...you cant get bitten because the dog cant turn its head! If you have a dog that will full on bite you, you'd have to wonder why you'd even have it in the first place and seriously look at what you have done wrong as a handler/owner. This method has worked extremely well for me and alot of professional dog handlers that i know/have worked with....but of corse that doesnt mean it will work for everyone, it has to be done properly, and it has to be done by a handler that is "tuff" and refuses to except such behaviour and is not affraid of their dog. If this is something a handler has trouble with then maybe a behavourlist is the answer...but most times its always the handler that needs to be educated.

I totally agree with this statement. This is what has gotton me extremly effective recalls with my dogs. People wonder how I have such a good recall.....honestly its mostly because of intimidation and dominance.

Thanks Mym ADAA have put up the winning photos on their website: http://www.adaa.com.au/wac/cal-back-cover-lge.jpg Photo was taken in May 2009 (PADS), at his first and last ADAA comp, I now live in Victoria

I dont think this problem is in need of a behaviorlist, he simply needs to be made aware who is in charge and the owner is the one who needs to learn to inforce this effectivly and consistantly. His behaviour is common & used by dogs who think they are the boss...he/the owner doesnt need to spend $200+ to find this out.

Your dog is testing you...they call it becoming a teenager!! You did handle it the wrong way, by going and getting his lead you have rewarded him for the bahaviour! IMO you should have scuffed him (as a pack leader dog would do to another when its doing something wrong), gave a loud NO! and pulled him off the bed and outside...and then ignored him for the whole day!

What happened to it? I was going to enter a trial today and now its gone.....AHHHH

Does anyone know anything about this calendar? I recieved an email saying that one of the winning photos was of my dog taken by Paul Durante. I dont think this is even possible as I had only entered like 2 elementry comps and i never entered this calendar competition...does anyone know if there is an online gallery where you can see the winning photos? google isnt helping

What an amazing photo!

I wish i could of interupted the convo to tell them otherwise but it was my boss in his office with some of the other managers. I didnt think lock-jaw could have been true ...everyone was like OMG really.... Most times i speak up in the office about dog affairs but then there are people who of corse know BETTER than me and EVEN TRY AND TELL ME MY DOG IS ACTUALLY A BORDER COLLIE not a rough collie ...and then one person even said....NOOOO its actually called a LONG HAIRED collie.

most of us probably heard what happed on the weekend when a "pitball" attacked a mans dogs and latched on to his hand for up to 20 minutes. I heard my boss telling people that when pitballs bite that they actually cant let go...that their jaw actually locks on and even when they are dead you cant get them off???....is this true???? ....one person followed on by saying well they ARE attack dogs, thats what they are bred for....