sheena

OH & I were this morning discussing worms. We are on a farm & the dogs (especially the 5 month old pup) when out walking, consume the odd piece of kangaroo poo, cow poo or chicken poo, or whatever else has pooed in the paddocks during the night The puppy just loves kangaroo poo. Just wondering on opinions as to whether these poos might be harmful to them in regards to giving them worms. I worm them every three months & they certainly don't look wormy...quite the opposite. I suppose to be sure I could have their poos tested at the vets. Does anybody know what this costs per test & what's involved? Thanks in advance

I was reading in another of your threads & your dog sounds like a carbon copy of mine when I first started..at one stage we were almost banned from training....so stick with the LAT & I think you will have fun & see lots of improvment. Another thing I have tried, is not to let her run around with other dogs other than our own puppy, & I think this has helped too. I still have to proof my girl against getting distracted with dogs running in the far distance, but I am working on it. Just a silly, question, but Bindi, when she is carrying on like a Tassie Devil, always has a leaf hanging from her mouth like a cigarette paper....does Quinn do this ?

My BC girl will often sit on my feet or put a paw on my foot & press her body in & upwards as close as she can get to me. I take it as a sign of affection cause she also looks up at me & her eyes say "I love you, Mum"

I shall add it to my list. :D Is it this one? http://www.agilityclick.com/prod51.htm That's the one I've got & it is excellent...that's a good price too if the site is Australian

Hi Sammies, The "other woman" is a friend, but I can tell you the friendship is wearing thin, she is also one of the trainers at our club. IMO even those people who "know everything" should still keep their minds open to something a bit different & learn all about it before they choose to criticise so bluntly. I find dog trials the best place to train as this is where she gets the most excited & distracted. I start off with her away from the action & work our way closer, till we can do it while waiting in line for our turn, tho I am finding it harder now to get her to "look at" something as she now prefers to keep her focus on me...so I guess that must be the end result. She just loves anything to do with the clicker & I think it is probably helping to get her into the "working with me" mode before a run. On Saturday there were kids soccer matches going on as well, so I was able to play LAT with that distraction. The only other place I could train it is at our weekly training school, but this trainer is there & I don't want to upset anybody, but I find that now, since we have been practicing it at trials, Monday night's training is pretty tame. I think the key to it is to click as soon as they turn towards the distraction, but before they have time to react, then treat when they turn to you. If you click & they don't turn to you, then you are too close to the distraction & need to move further away. What this woman doesn't understand (& wont let me explain) is that I am not clicking/marking her for looking away from me, I am clicking/marking her for looking away AND not reacting to the distraction. I am telling my dog, it's OK to look, but then turn & tell me ;)

We've been working our way through it with the new puppy, also trying it out on the older dog too...makes us realise just how much foundation training she missed out on as a pup.

Did some more LAT training at a trial over the weekend, & again copped ridicule from the same person She just goes on & on about it. I even gave her Leslies's information on the technique but she dismissed it as "rubbish". Maybe I am just too sensitive, but for the rest of the weekend, I tried to do my training away from her, but I could "feel" her eyes on me a lot. The proof is in the pudding though, for my dog has gone from being a Tasmanian Devil on & off the course, & so easily distracted by anything moving, to one which did fabulous runs in ALL jumping events over the weekend, coming away with passes in JDX & GDX...lots of other clear runs, but we just have to learn to run just a little bit faster. By the way, this "person" could not bring herself to compliment us on any runs, she just said it was "luck"

We will have free sample packs at the Port Macquarie Trial this weekend... if anybody wants one, just ask any of the officials for Sue & Murray with the chocolate BC's. There will also be some bags on the raffle table. We will have a limited number of 2 kilo packs for sale as well (for those who want a bigger sample). ;)

Hi LL, They look pretty good. What are the bases made out of??? Metal or plastic & how tuff are they.

We started off with just the pvc ones on a pvc pipe base that you buy over the internet & they still come in handy (we have 2 sets) even though they are a different spacing, it doesn't seem to worry her. We then bought a full set of 2 x 2's on metal bases from a guy from up in Queensland that makes them, but they were poorly made & have fallen to bits...OH has had to re-weld them His seesaw was also a good 20cm out at the centre too..I think it was supposed to be offset by 20mm. OH also made up a set of 12 that just stick in the ground & are handy for carting around in the car. Good training, cause they are just stuck in the ground at roughly 2 ft apart & fall at all angles, but she still does them. I am not real sure, but I think Allison from Dunwurkn Border Collies makes agility equipment,for sale & it looks pretty sturdy & of good quality.

Also ( I have never done it), but you could smear a bit of vegemite on your finger, to make her not mind your finger being in her mouth. I just usually put tablets in a bit of mince, but if she's off her food then that wont work.

Not sure why you would buy it overseas when you can get it in Australia Plaque Off, that is.

My pup has ALWAYS got a yummy treat for going into his crate. I keep a jar of them on top. Now when it's bedtime, I just call him for bed...both dogs come running at speed & both pop into their own crates, turn around to face the door & drop, waiting for the treat.

Hmmmmmmmm....maybe a borgi or a bordacorg

So glad that Quinn is coming along so well...doesn't it make you feel good, when such a change comes over them. All I have to do now is to teach her not to get distracted by my OH when he is working at the trials Leslie summed my dog up completely when she said "he could not go to trials because when he saw another dog running, he turned into a Tasmanian Devil...if that sounds familiar, then I wrote this article for you" ...end of quote. That's the exact description we used to give our BC girl...behaving like a Tasmanian Devil.

Important thing is, no matter which way you teach your dog, with a clicker or voice marker, it is a lot of fun for you & your dog I was simply pointing out that she does use the clicker to teach it. My dog is having lots of fun with it & I now find I have to make my voice more exciting to get her to look. I can almost hear her saying..."OK ...Mum... I will look, but just quickly, as I am far more interested in you than that dog running & barking" I can't believe the change in her since I have started playing the game.

okay - I think you're mixing two games up. Typically, for "look at that" you don't use the clicker (if you follow Leslie's stuff to the tee). To keep it really simple, the order is: i) Dog looks at something ii) At that instant, before they get roused, you say "Look at that" (ie it is a marker, not a cue - the difference is important, you aren't actually telling your dog to look at something, just marking that it has). Now if you want, you can use the clicker instead of saying "look at that", but you only use one or the other. I personally don't use the clicker for this because I don't always have it on me and I like to have my other hand free if something goes wrong. I also use the clicker for free shaping so I don't want the clicker to mark calm. iii) Whjen you're starting out, as soon as you've said "look at that", shove a treat in their mouth. You don't have to wait for them to do anything (eg look at you), just give them the treat. Repeat the game again each time they look at something. Don't be stingy - you want to build up a conditioned response, so you need to repeat it many times. iv) After you've played the game a few times, add a micro-second pause between steps ii) and iii). If your dog has the hang of it, he will look at you after you say "look at that". Then treat (ie the dog is being treated for looking at you and remaining calm). If your dog gets very excited, say "look at that" in a low, calm voice. Sorry ...but the article I am reading of Leslies called "the LAT Game"...she DOES use the clicker & I will quote a bit more of the article, though I have run out of (Quote)...she uses an example...I got out a stick...& held it out, clicking when he looked towards it. At the sound of the click, he turned back to me expectantly & got his treat. When I knew he would readily look toward the stick, I started asking him "Where is it?" ..my LAT cue. (end of quote)...she then goes on to extend it to the dog looking at it's mum. etc. etc.& other examples too. She doesn't use the clicker when teaching the dog to "Take a Breath" The cue I use is as if I am talking to a child & that keeps my voice happy. I will say things like...is that Albert barking, or, look at that little white fluffy, or, is that a cow, or, look at that dog being silly....she immediately turns her head in the direction I am looking..I click...she turns back to me & I treat.

With all my wormers & spot-ons etc, I always buy the biggest size available & divide the tablets or the liquid & therefor get more doses for my dollar.

I saw a corgi x border collie on the weekend....it was very overweight so it looked like a very fat border collie with no legs. Sad really to think that someone could have done that to two lovely breeds

Have you enquired with your local vet....mine will do it for just $12 per dog.

We will be at the Port Macquarie Trial next weekend 6th & 7th August, if you want to pick up a sample of Black Hawk. Just ask any of the organisers for Sue or Murray with the Chocolate BC called Bindi. We are taking down some orders & probably have room for just one more 20 kg bag if anybody wants it. They are $85 per 20 kilo bags & we can do smaller amounts POA. Just PM me or email at [email protected].

Sounds like a helpful article, I might have to order the magazine to keep it on hand....then of course I will have to buy some other doggy stuff to justify the shipping charge.... ;) If you buy the digital copy, there is no shipping charge, you download it to your computer for just $5.00. It's the August 2011 which has the article in...here's the link http://www.cleanrun.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=2892&ParentCat=357

ETA: I think a bit of the confusion is also that Sheena was originally talking about motion reactiveness and Dandybrush was talking about breaking concentration, which are a bit different. My boy has both problems, so I use the more prolonged distraction, initiated by a "whosthat" for his obsessiveness. I use offering an alternative behaviour and the doggy version of cognitive behaviour therapy (via treats) for addressing his desire to run off and bark at fast-moving things. It is also used for breaking concentration & I again quote from Leslie McDevitt " Although many dogs brought to me for motion-reactivity are Border collies & other herding breeds, anydog can be triggered by seeing another dog running, doing obstacles or tugging in class. To teach dogs that they can in fact see this type of movement without reacting to it (whether the reaction is simply staring with a strong eye & getting "stuck"or actually lunging, barking & trying to chase) I use....the Look at That Game. " End of quote.

Oh no he looks at her no problem, I wanted him to look at me. My boy already had a basis in clicker training, so I got my OH to play fetch with my girl at home and I would sit next to Weasel. When he seemed to relax even a bit, I would say very quickly and excitedly "Whosthat!" and he would snap his head around to me for just a second, and I would click and treat that. I just kept doing that to get longer looks to me and when he was even more intense, then moved it out to the park, then to agility where there is a lot of excitement and fun dogs, then finally to herding where there are just the most stimulating things in the world for a kelpie, sheep. Once he started to offer more attention, I also added some other tricks after the first look so he would forget about the other dog for a few seconds, then a few minutes, then he'd offer the attention unsolicited. It might not be the textbook method (I haven't read control unleashed yet), so I'd recommend checking that out, but it's how we muddled through :D What you are describing is Look At me not Look at That...two completely different games. I have just made a cuppa & am typing out the quote from Leslie McDevitt Author of Control Unleashed. It wont allow me to cut & paste Quote...this game is a simple behavior chain of 2 "orienting" behaviors. The dog looks at a certain stimulus in the environment & then turns back to you. Rather than just using a Watch Me cue, the LAT game actively teaches dogs to read stimuli such as running dogs as an environmental cue to automatically reconnect with you. Once you have taught your dog this game, you can relax & let the environment do the work for you. Instead of you having to react once the dog has noticed something & ask your dog to watch you when he's already in the process of reacting, we can flip the tables here & teach your dog to tell you when he sees something. In other words this game changes the "conversation" ...end of quote ETA...more (I now have a 2nd Quote...When a motion-triggered dog sees a trigger, such as a dog running an agility course, the handler typically asks the dog to pay attention to her & the dog typically responds "That would be very hard for me right now since my instincts have taken over & I really can't hear you" LAT changes this conversation so when the dog sees another dog running he immediately turns to his handler & says "There is a dog running over there. Did you know about this" Reframing the trigger into something that your dog can "point out" to you & then collect a "finder's fee" for, keeps him in an operant or thinking state of mind when he sees that trigger, rather than his immediately going into react mode or chase mode. Trying to make a dog only look at you around things that trigger an instinctive response can be difficult & frustrating. I think it is both safer & a lot more pleasant for both members of the team if the dog learns that he can see those things & stay thoughtful & play a game with his handler instead of answering the call of the wild" ...end of Quote Hope this explains the confusion over the 2 completely different games. ;)

sorry to butt in on this thread would this training work on my pup to get her focus off my older dog? when im throwing toys and she is just focused on him? Yes...definately, but you need to start off with just slight distractions & build it up...set your pup up for success not failure . You could possibly just start off with having someone walk your other dog past him, as soon as he turns to look, click & treat. But you need to have your pup tuned into what the clicker is all about before you start....very important that he understands that when you click, he immediately gets a reward. Good Luck