sheena

I am just wondering how dogs might react to the table...those dogs who have been conditioned to things like electronic containment systems for examples & electric/ultrasonic collars that give out a beep warning before they are zapped. Just wondering...none of my dogs have experience with those devices but there are dogs who have. To be fair, if things like electronic tables are the way of the future in dog trials, then every club is going to have to get one, so its dogs can be trained to use it....just like the wee-saw.

I tried my best to ignore this but I have to comment: I am getting a little sick of people believing that we are spending a lot of our own money to improve our sport in an attempt to be unfair to other competitors. Thanks CFS...it's good to know we may get a chance to try our dogs on it before competition & those who have dogs who don't like it, may have the option of not using it. I imagine the most likely dogs to be using it will be in Novice.

At the agility trial we are going to this weekend at Armidale they are trying out the Electronic Table. From what I have been told, when the dog lands on it, it gives 5 beeps a second apart then goes beep,beep,beep. Does anyone know how the dogs are likely to react to it???? The last trial I went to, was the first time on the new wee-saw, & a lot of dogs jumped off the side. Thankfully, mine wasn't one, but she was a little confused with it To be fair, they should allow us to condition our dogs to a new table before competition, but that is not likely to happen

You get it from the health food shops, but make sure you get the pure cold pressed virgin organic coconut oil. Of all the "oils" it has the lowest calorie count & some dogs even lose weight on it because it stimulates the metabolism. It is supposed to be very good for a multitude of problems, including arthritis, digestion & fungal problems. I give it to my two BC's because they are in swimming every day in the family pool & the sun & chlorine play havoc with their coats. I thought at first, it may make their poos a bit sloppy, & was surprised when it made no difference & they continued to have lovely, firm poos & only a couple of times a day. Occasionally I might alternate the CO with 1/2 teaspoon high strength liquid fish oil, but only because I have it there & am trying to use it up, & sometimes they will have a raw egg yolk instead, but it's mainly CO. Oh, & it makes really nice scones & lumberjack cake as well

What about adding something to his diet to help improve his coat, like cold pressed virgin coconut oil, about a tablespoon a day & you could notice a difference within a couple of weeks. :)

We have always fed our dogs this kind of diet and all of them (although the original four are now elderly; 2 small breeds at 12 years, two large breeds at 8 years), are extremely healthy. (With the exception of the GSD who has hip dysplasia, apart from this his health is excellent and the dysplasia is being managed very well medically.) The only reason we have visited the vet in their respective lifetimes is for vaccinations and of course the GSD's hip dysplasia. I quite honestly can't remember the last time one of them went for an illness (touch wood), so their diet can't be that bad. Actually I tell a lie, we had to take our cattle dog to the vet a couple of years ago when he ran smack bang into the shepherd whilst playing ball and started convulsing. But that was a knock to the head and nothing to do with his diet. And the GSD had to go to the vet for an abscess caused by a foreign body earlier this year, but again, nothing to do with his diet. With six dogs we would have to take out a second mortgage to feed the ridiculously priced food from the vet. They get a lot of raw human grade food; chicken, beef, fish and roo, ocassionally a bit of human grade offal. The scraps from our plate are usually pretty minimal, just a taste. There is never anything left on hubby's plate :laugh: , I can never finish a meal (eyes bigger than my belly) so they get my leftovers - between six dogs it is usually only a mouthful. The milk formula is just to soften the dry food (the adult dogs don't get it), and make sure they're getting a good balance of nutrients. They get half a baby's bottle between them in the morning with the kibble. They won't get this forever, but IMO it gives a good start. Just a suggestion, that's all. The diet your dogs are on may not be suitable for this particular pup....why else would he not be thriving Growing dogs, especially large breed ones need a good diet that supplies them with all their nutritional needs, other wise, they don't grow properly or end up with problems like hip dysplasia. When feeding scraps off your plate do you make sure your dogs never get fed things like onion & other human foods known to be dangerous to dogs health. Onion can kill, either slowly or quickly. You don't need to get the expensive foods from the vet for your dogs & canned food is almost all water. Bonnie which you can get from the produce stores is a good food for most dogs if you can't afford something a little better. Just out of interest, what kibble is this particular pup getting & how much of it makes up his diet. I am just trying to help...you said your pup is not thriving & I suggested it is probably his diet.

I am not real sure why you would be feeding him a milk formula at his age & I would be stopping the feeding of leftovers & human cooked food. Dogs don't need for their food to be cooked & if he is eating rubbish like bread & pasta & cooked vegetables which he can't digest & dog rolls are rubbish. Why not put him onto food especially formulated for dogs, either by researching & providing him with a balanced raw diet or putting him onto a top quality (not supermarket) dry dog food for Adults with raw meaty bones, like turkey necks. It sounds to me that his diet is far from balanced for a growing dog.

I would imagine that $2.05 postage is pretty good.....or do you mean the postage is $22.00 Have you tried the suppliers that are closer to you? Cause I think Pets Pantry is in Victoria. If you like I will make enquiries at the post office tomorrow & see what it would cost us to send it up...we are a bit closer, being northern NSW, but there are distributors in Queensland (I think I gave you the link before) that are a lot closer. Yeah it was $22.00 :/ Sorry I will go back and find the link But if you could make enquiries that would be fanastic. Because in case in does agree with Rusty and I need to keep buying it, from pets pantry it is almost as much to pay for postage as I'd be paying for the bag But yes, the closer to me, the better, so postage is cheaper :D Rusty & Biscuit...get in touch with Julana in the post above. She provides a great service & can post cheaper than I can as she is already in Qld. :) Australia post rates increase enormously if they have to cross the border ETA Julana to DOL & the Black Hawk thread.

I would imagine that $2.05 postage is pretty good.....or do you mean the postage is $22.00 Have you tried the suppliers that are closer to you? Cause I think Pets Pantry is in Victoria. If you like I will make enquiries at the post office tomorrow & see what it would cost us to send it up...we are a bit closer, being northern NSW, but there are distributors in Queensland (I think I gave you the link before) that are a lot closer.

A few Yummy ideas here Yummy treats I make all my own treats except for a bit of dried lamb puff or liver which is handy to keep in my pocket :)

Far out! Animal Supplies is where we get all our stock from, so I'll give them a call tomorrow. Thank you!! We have a stack full of vouchers we need to be credited for - would this mean there's a chance we won't see the money for these? Not sure on that, but I wouldn't be surprised if the changeover means an excuse for a price rise.

I have heard that the importer Williams Pty Ltd has gone into receivership. Could be the reason why they are being a little hard to contact. I think a company called Animal Supplies in Sydney is taking over the contract.

Why the barrier? Out of interest, in the above scenario, what would happen if you fed Bindi inside first and then put Crickets food down & released him, while she was also outside? Would he eat it, given that she hadn't started first? So long as you are comfortable doing it, I would try this. Any resource guarding and I would simply remove his food & try again the next day. Clearly I'm not a behaviourist, but this worked for me many years ago. My dog soon leant that any carry on & he went hungry. As a general rule, rather than dealing with things as they occur, I much prefer to take control and set them up, so that I dont have to deal with them unexpectedly. Thanks Vickie. I only just read your post AFTER I fed them. I have always had a bit of a barrier between them ever since I got him home as a pup...they can see each other quite clearly. Just a preventative thing really, plus it made it easier to concenetrate on his "table manners" without having to worry about what she might be doing. I have always made him stay rock still till released to his food. I just gave them both their bones, made them stay & put their bowls down about 5 ft apart. As soon as he looked at her & raised his lip, I removed his food. Then when he focused back on me I put the dish back down. So from now on, not only does "stay & don't move a paw" until released to your food, it will also include, no lip raising

A bit of an update.....Normally at home I feed the two of them about 6 ft apart but with a barrier in between. He always waits till she starts to eat first before he starts to eat, even if he has been released first. Because we are not at home (camping) the last few nights I have fed them about 6 ft apart & they stay as per before but with no barrier. I release her first to eat & he doesn't have any problem with that , So maybe it was something to do with being in a new environment with lots of strange dogs around. As far as the training for "Thou shalt not sniff & pee till I let you" he is training me well. I have been allowing him to sniff & pee only when it suits me....took just two walks for him to figure out, that if it is a "truly great sniff, & not to be missed at all cost"...he drops to the ground to sniff & there is no way I can budge him But we are working on it, & thanks to you guys he can stay "a boy" for a while longer yet. We go home tomorrow. Still waiting to hear how Nekhbet would train him out of his behaviour It's one thing to say "he should be in serious trouble for staring at a bitch", but what would you do Nekhbet that wouldn't involve physical punishment or scolding

I think their conversion might be a bit out Recommendation for a 15 kilo dog is 150 g or just over 1 cup max & for a 20 kilo dog 200g or just under two cups maximum & this would be if they were completely on BH with no other food. My 18 kilo BC gets just 1 cup & the 23 kilo BC gets 1 1/2 cups & they are very active & maintain their weight perfectly. They get some other stuff as well.

I swapped from Advance (and Advance Active) to BH and didn't have any ill effects from changing, I swapped for the same reasons Advance was getting expensive when I had to buy different varieties but with BH I can feed the same type just different amounts. I changed pretty much cold turkey too. I feed heaps less as well! They recommend 2-3 cups for my 15kg girl and 3-4 cups for the boys (20kg & 22kg), if I was feeding them that they would be obese and yet they are extremely active and the two youngest do flyball and agility. My youngest boy who I struggled with keeping weight on and was on Advance Active as it was the only food who would stop him looking like skin and bones only gets about 2 cups if that. I fed my oldest boy the same amount as Advance but he put weight on so had to cut that back and he is back too his usual weight. Thank you for answering my question. I am presuming "They" (Highlighted in bold) are Black Hawk? I started my boy on 2 cups of BH, will monitor his weight and adjust as necesary. The girl is on 1 cup. The pregnant one is eating what she feels she needs. She is not a stupid eater, so is pacing herself pretty good. About 2-3 cups a day. Tollersowned........ I am away from home at present so I don't have the BH bag in front of me....but I am sure the info doesn't state this large amount (in bold). I thought I gave my two about what they recommend which is one cup for an 18 kilo BC & 1 1/2 cups for the 23 kilo boy. Maybe a good idea to weigh out what they recommend & then convert it to cups. I will have a look when I get home, but this amount seems way out

You may have seen this clip before, but it is very inspiring I know in america they do agility in wheel chairs. All the best of luck for a quick recovery :)

so he has been allowed to be posessive for the past 2 days? So very bad behavior with no consequence or loss of reinforcer. I would be doing more then scolding that boy. The minute he started that staring behavior at a bitch he would have been in huge trouble. You're giving too much allowance with him and that is why he's doing his behaviors at such massive distances. As for peeing, pulling off balance when he's on 3 legs? You've missed the mark well and truely in stopping him. He must learn he's not allowed to even go for a sniff let along get that far to cock his leg. Desexing wont fix this dog, pull him into line ASAP and don't be afraid to correct him for his BS. He's allowed to get away with murder and he's taking full advantage of it, this is personality not hormones. So what would you do to correct it, ie the growling & staring when he thinks there may be food around, apart from removing his food? I am not into any negative punishment other than a pop on the leash & a scolding, which I don't like to do when the girl is present as she thinks she is in trouble too. Most of the time, he couldn't care less. Yesterday, she finished her bone, peed in her bowl, then boldly walked over to him, still chewing his, to check in his bowl. He didn't even bat an eyelid. It's just when he does it out of the blue that it takes me by surprise, that's why I thought it may have something to do with his hormones (he is 12 months old).....what training would you do to nip it in the bud.??? next time it happens.

Where's the "Like Button" :)

I switched my girl over to BH, cold turkey, from VAN & had no problems & the puppy went straight onto BH Adult when I got him at 10 weeks & no problem there. I think he might have been on all raw before that. I am not sure what it is in grams, but Bindi @ 18 kilos gets one metric cup per day & Cricket @ 23 kilos gets a cup & half. They also get RMB's & a bit of meat or tinned fish once a day & often an egg yolk, & training treats. They are very active border collies & are maintaining a good steady weight on that amount of food. So, sorry I can't comment on the Advance changeover, just that going straight onto BH never upset them at all.

I don't really expect that getting him de-sexed is going to curtail the "marking" much. I will just have to be very vigilant with him around equipment etc & keep up the training. My de-sexed bitch marks quite a bit, especially when away from home. I always panic when she takes too long to come out of a tunnel, as she has been known to stop & wee on a couple of occasions Just now, she finished her turkey neck for breakfast, then squatted & peed into her bowl. Then proceeded to walk right past Cricket while he was munching on his & I am pleased to say, he took no notice of her.

They both get Black Hawk, Muscle meat, half turkey neck a day broken into two meals. Every second day they get tinned fish instead of the meat & a raw egg yolk every second day. The day they don't get the egg yolk they get coconut oil. He is a beautiful placid dog, it's just this little "bully" thing he has developed over the last couple of days. Maybe he feels a bit threatened as there are lots of other dogs camping here as well, & feels he has to assert himself on Bindi, cause he knows he can.

Yes, Erny, I think he is just testing the waters too, that's why I thought it might have been hormonal. On this mornings walk, as soon as Bindi knew we were on our way back to camp, her body language told me, she feared that Cricket might bash her up again when she gets to within the 50 meter mark. His body language changed too, & stared at her & started stalking her. I then walked her in front at a distance with her looking back over her shoulder & OH kept him well behind & said he had "that look" on his face all the way back to camp. Poor Bindi It is a very interesting thing....body language. This afternoon I am going to bring them back to camp a different way & see what happens. I feel he is probably just being a brat teenager, but don't know how to let him know it is wrong without actually scolding him. If I scold him, poor Bindi thinks she is in trouble too Maybe its time for a little LAT with him.

Maybe you could bring her along to Agility & start her agility career I will be soon! Is there training on Sat afternoon? I have this weekend off for my birthday, so might pop down to the oval if it is on? Obedience is on Saturday afternoons & they are soon starting (14th April) a new session of Canine College which is obedience & an intro to agility. You will need to ring & book for that. We have a dally at Agility now. Agility is held on Monday nights at 6.30 & usually they like you to have done Canine college first. Come down on Monday night & have a look & meet everyone The club is also getting into Rally-O too, I think.

I agree with this. He needs to be pulled into line now, regardless of if he is entire or not. All my entire Borders have always eaten together with no issues, even when feeding raw bones or having visiting dogs. Even entire males that I wouldn't leave unattented together always had dinner together. The rule in this house is that I own and control the food and everyone can mind their manners, eat from their own bowl, stick to their own bone and woe betide anyone that growls. If you give food chews, either crate them or remove the chews if they can't be nice and chew in company. Definitely don't neuter and vaccinate at the same time. Vaccinations should not be given if the dog is stressed at all. If possible wait until his growth plates are closed to desex because he is going to be a performance dog but if you really feel he is getting to be too much with the hormones do it now. Thanks for your replies everyone. I have heard that before (in bold) that's why I mentioned it, hoping someone would pick up on it & set me straight. I have always fed them together, but separated by a barrier & they both have to wait to be released to their food. My girl is not FA at all & is a little confused about why he has started growling at her from 50 meters away. He is fine with the other dogs at training, but I just have to keep an eye on him that he doesn't pee on any equipment. I really want to hold out till his growth plates have closed if possible. With the "wanting to mark every tree, post & clump of grass" while out walking, I have started letting him have one good pee at the start, one in the middle & one at the end...all the others, I wait till he is balancing on just 3 legs then pull him off-balance. & I am going to try some clicker training with him to stop him sniffing. It worked with my girl, so hoping it will work with him. So, I think, @ 14 months when I take him in for his vacs, I will get the vet to check his growth plates & decide from there. In the meantime, I will take any uneaten chews, bones etc away from him & see how he goes. Thanks Guys :)