corvus

Isn't that funny? I was thinking this morning about the dog that used to live next door to us when I was a kid. A little terrier thing that barked and dived at our ankles every time we walked up or down our driveway. We were all scared of him. Eventually I announced I was going to make friends with him and then maybe he wouldn't try to bite me all the time. It actually worked like a charm. Like your experience, he changed his attitude completely and stopped threatening us. I didn't even use food, just called him in a happy voice and gushed over him. The only problem was he expected a love-in every time we went past, which got awkward if we were late for the bus and running. Still, I could live with it. I always thought that must have been a bit of a fluke for it to be so effective. I'm surprised to hear someone else has had a similar experience. Food probably helps! Thanks, megan. Not something I often think of with my cheerfully oblivious spitzes. ;)

Just a thought... Maybe because you're looking at anticipation rather than a particular drive, as such? Positive anticipation feels much the same regardless of what you're anticipating. If is a dog is anticipating a prey drive reward what would you call it? Anticipation. Remember when we were having this discussion a couple of years ago? I was saying in the moments leading up to the reward, the dog looks the same regardless of what they are expecting to get, but at the moment of reward delivery they look different. This makes more sense after reading some Panksepp. Panksepp says there is little evidence for specific pathways in the brain for specific rewards. Instead, there is more evidence for a generalised reward system where the actual reward is easily interchangeable. He also says animals that are predisposed to be a touch obsessive about one reward will easily switch to another if their preferred one is not available, and pursue the second one with all the motivation they pursued the first one. Panksepp considers prey drive and food drive to come under the same umbrella. With some exceptions. Behaviour is very plastic and can pretty easily slip into areas of overlap, for example, predatory aggression is thought to have a wee bit of RAGE in it as well as SEEK. ETA I don't think it makes much sense to split something with no discernible variation into smaller categories, particularly when those categories are defined by something that you have already claimed has no effect on the observed behaviour.

fabulous idea! I have a long umbrella with a long pokey rod on the end for the 'just in case' moments; i'll be using it for walkies now Yeah, it's a good idea, but as long as we're picking on good ideas, I am a wee bit wary of deliberately frightening a dog I may meet again. I grew up with a dog who I imagine would have reacted to an unexpected umbrella in the face with extreme aggression. A few times strangers did things to her that frightened her and she became obsessed with taking down everything that she associated with the scare. Umbrellas, air horns, cap guns, shouting, kicking are all things that work on most dogs, but have the potential to make things worse if you're unlucky and do it to the wrong dog. I guess that's a risk you assess for yourself. I have no problem admitting I'm biased.

Just a thought... Maybe because you're looking at anticipation rather than a particular drive, as such? Positive anticipation feels much the same regardless of what you're anticipating.

I doubt it. I have had people slip Erik treats when he's being rude (Kivi is never rude) and it's very frustrating, but I assure you, if anyone ever boots either of them I'm going to be a lot more than frustrated. I have never met anyone out on the street or at the park that is sophisticated enough in their training to care if someone rewards their dog if it ran away from them, assuming the dog did run away from them, which from what I have heard on this forum seems is rarely the case ("Don't worry, he's friendly!"). Such a dog is probably never going to have a reliable recall anyway. Why try to find the negative side? It's obvious there is one (thanks SK and everyone else including myself who mentioned it). Why not look for what's good about it? It might even have some useful applications elsewhere. I know some dogs that get a bit overexcited in play that would benefit hugely from a break and a feed. Some dogs don't have much sense of body space, so are not easy to block. I've had dogs dive between my legs and over my hands to bounce on Erik's head. I'm not going to boot them and risk an adverse reaction when their focus is on E (not to mention an adverse reaction from the owners over a situation that is more annoying than dangerous), but maybe a handful of treats would interrupt their focus and bring their arousal down. It's worth a shot. Another possible use is when we've got one of those dogs that badly wants to say hi coming over and my boys badly want to say hi to the friendly dog as well and forget there are procedures about this. Sometimes I just need a moment to get their attention again, and I don't get it because I'm trying to block the other dog and talk to their owner and get through to my boys at the same time. Maybe mine need a handful of treats in their faces! I think if we are open-minded about these things we might just find out they are useful on occasion. That's the only reason I posted it. I knew it was going to get picked apart, and I knew it would irritate me no end, but don't people deserve to have one more potential tool they might find some creative uses for, or might suit their particular problems down to the ground?

So? Booting a dog in the ribs and roaring f*** off is probably considered disruptive and anti-social as well.. Personally I'd rather be disruptive risk my dog. Did you not read Trisha's blog post? The whole point is that maybe you don't need to be disruptive and anti-social. Why is it so hard to just put that one in your tool belt or some such? You people know dogs. You ought to be able to judge if an oncoming dog is likely to be distracted by a handful of treats or not. Use your common sense. Consider that you've got a dog coming towards you that you don't know and may meet again and you're planning on scaring the crap out of it. Ask our gas man how that panned out for him. I'm not trying to tell anyone what to do. I'm just saying, hey, here's a nice technique that could help you. If you'd rather boot dogs and scream at them, that's your choice.

Thank you, fbaudry. It ought to be bleeding obvious to PF why I own two purebred dogs from good registered breeders. If she managed to figure that one out, she might realise how insulting the rest of her reply was.

Hooray!

There are purpose-bred 'Border Jacks' for flyball as well. And lurchers for hunting.

One time I was out in the bush doing field work and a Harrier with a trailing leash appeared out of nowhere and just walked right up to me and stood there. Picked up his leash and walked him back to the trails where we found someone on a bike riding around calling him. Probably the most convenient lost dog story ever.

You know the foxes came from fur farms, right? How do you think they are kept there?

This is really NOT a method that is expected to work for aggressive dogs. If you read the blog post, Trish made the video because people were so skeptical it would work. She also states it's not going to work for a dog intent on attacking. It's really aimed at folks with dogs that don't like being approached by other dogs, like dog-reactive dogs for example. She also says that the nice thing is it distracts the dogs for a while as they look for treats, so you can slip away while they are busy. ETA But hey, don't ask me, I haven't tried it. I found having a dog run into a tree kept it busy for long enough to slip away.

Thanks. Just to be clear, the reinforcement wasn't really intermittent at any time. It was quite predictable, as that's kind of integral to the study design. They have to know when the behaviour will be rewarded and when it won't.

Wondering if it's worth carrying a bag of lollies for other unwelcome approaches. ;)

So teach them to stop at a distance from you to get their fist full of treats.

Some people live in the suburbs where it's considered disruptive to crack a stock whip and anti-social to carry a cattle prod.

I thought, given how often people are frustrated by dogs approaching theirs when the interaction is not wanted, that this blog post from Patricia McConnell might prove useful. http://www.theotherendoftheleash.com/it-works-how-to-stop-an-approaching-dog-in-an-emergency Not gonna work on a charging dog, but I haven't found anything that does, yet.

Sometimes they are not 'lost'. They know where they are and where they are going. I call them and make excited sounds and beckoning gestures (crouch down, pat my knees). If they don't come they probably won't let me catch them. We have come across a few that were standing around looking bewildered. Those are the ones that are lost. They've got out somehow and have no idea what to do with themselves. They usually let me walk up to them or come to me when I beckon. Sometimes opening the car door and calling them will get them to jump in your car.

Haha, good trainer in the Shire, how funny. :p There's a clicker trainer who is only slightly loopy: Clicker Academy for Animal Training, Behaviour and Enrichment mount st, Arncliffe, NSW 2205 St George-sutherland p: 0401194709 From what I've heard of The Canine College based at Menai, they are quite good. They do private training. I see their training classes every time I go to the gym on Saturday mornings and they are full of happy dogs and owners having fun together. Keep saying I should check it out, but never get around to it. Perhaps they could borrow my Manners Minder? It'd be great for something like that. It marks and treats at the press of a button, so makes rewarding easy when you're hands are busy. This stuff is not so hard once you make it clear what the dog should be doing and start rewarding anything that looks a little bit like that. Or if she's already got a negative association with the brush it would probably help to do a little counter-conditioning first. Just have to start small and work up. Also, IME dogs can suddenly become a lot more cooperative about brushing if you use good brushes. I have some great brushes they can try to see if that helps. Anything that makes it easier is worth it, I think. Good brushes don't pull as much.

They don't need to have a cognitive concept of time to have very accurate routines. I wake up at the same time most mornings as well. My circadian rhythm has that sorted. I don't know how long I have slept or what the time is when I wake. If I eat at the same time everyday, I get hungry at that time everyday. I won't know what time it is until I look at the clock.

It can be quick in some circumstances. I had Erik flipping out over children doing strange things a few months ago. Once I got my head around exactly how to use LAT, it only took a few weeks before he first offered a LAT when he saw some kids hitting the ground with a stick. No barking, no lunging, just looked calmly and looked back to me. When you've read it, go join the CU_Dogs Yahoo list. Leslie McDevitt answers questions along with some other very experienced trainers that have been using CU. It has really added depth to my understanding of the whole program. I want to buy the foundation dvds, now.

I'd have a hard time doing completely unique things in training. And I'd have a hard time finding something that every experienced person on the planet even agrees over. So I've got to disregard someone. And generally I've got to heed someone as well, even if it's someone who is just saying "You know your dog best, you decide."

Hoover's adorable, but I do love Elbie's "Yes, I'm touching it, just!" :D You do what you like, KtB. I make lots of mistakes and people are all like "Do it this way or you'll have problems later" and sometimes I do and sometimes I don't, but whatever the case, it's stuff I have to learn on my own. When I was first learning about training a lot of people would give me dire predictions about what I was doing and how wrong it was and it would make me feel all pressured and insecure and it doesn't really help anyone. The best thing I can do is be sure of myself. If I'm sure of myself and create a problem, that's fine, I can fix it and I'll be sure of myself while I do and it's all good. If people are so concerned about getting into a dog sport and being competitive that they can't afford to make mistakes and learn how to fix them, well, so be it, but it's certainly not my idea of fun. And to me that goes for tug as well. Try stuff out. If you don't want to use it for whatever reason, don't. But if you've got a theory, why not test it? What's the worst that can happen?

In the meantime, don't let kids feed him. If he's barking at them, chances are he doesn't actually want them close to him. Bringing them close when he's reacting to them has a strong possibility of making it worse. It sounds like he doesn't know what to do about kids, so he barks at them. Leslie McDevitt's LAT game is great for this, as long as you can get in before he starts barking. You can use it to teach him that his job is to notice kids and tell you he's noticed them by looking at them QUIETLY. Get in fast before he decides to bark, tell him he's a good boy, or click, or whatever, and when he turns back to you, give him his treat. Then repeat until he's wanting to spend more time looking at you then the kid. If you want him to get closer, or there's a reason why he needs to, you can move a step or two forwards and start again.

That's basically how I handled Erik's attention-seeking barks as well. He was such a little twerp. He would come into my study and stand there looking at me and bark. If I did ANYTHING at all his eyes would light up and he stopped barking and the tail would wag excitedly. I had to train myself to completely fail to respond to him. He was trying to make me acknowledge him, so really, anything I might do in response was a reward. I eventually managed to teach him a much more polite and tolerable way of asking to be acknowledged. Whenever he sat quitely by me and looked up with his cute little bright and sparkly face, I would give him attention. He is 2 now, and will still bark to get attention in certain circumstances, but more likely to sit and look up at us with that impossibly engaging look he has. Who can ignore him when he's being so cute! So be careful with responding to the paw swipes and jumping up. You don't want to accidentally reinforce it.