corvus

Incidentally, trying to kill snakes is how people get bitten. It is safer for everyone to leave them be. I have difficulty imagining how I would be forced to kill a snake to protect my dogs if I have them safe behind a snake-proof barrier when I'm not with them and can call them away from a snake instantly and have them come quickly if I am with them. Even if somehow the snake is between them and me, I would opt to recall them rather than attack the snake. The last thing I would want to do is provoke them to get closer to the snake, which attacking the snake would inevitably do. They stay close to us and are vey responsive off leash. I consider that good snake protection.

:rolleyes: What part of 'effective' do you not understand? It is a pretty simple concept. A snake that can't physically reach your dog can't bite your dog, either. Obviously we are all wasting our time because some people have decided there is ample justification to kill snakes and won't be convinced otherwise even though it is really very, very obvious to the rest of us. KILLING THEM IS NOT NECESSARY. They are not hunting your dogs down. They are not hellbent on getting past any barrier errected between them and your dogs. It is not very hard to keep them out of a small area if you keep your barrier well maintained. Killing them will not make your dogs safer than a good barrier will. Go aquaint yourself with population carrying capacity. Ignorance is not justification for killing animals.

Yeah, I remember docile, creeping Kenz. ;) Obviously it's your dog and you know her best. You don't have to justify your decisions or how you interpret her behaviour. Everything is relative, after all. I didn't bring it up to judge you. I just wasn't sure if people realised there was a lot of subtle stuff going on there that was worth keeping an eye out for. Different things come out at different arousal levels. Kivi is rarely very aroused and does some of the quieter things but none of the more obvious things, and he's a really mellow, laid back dude that is hardly bothered by anything. Every now and then he has a little anxiety attack and it took me quite a while to recognise them and even longer to see the smaller things that led up to them. The triggers are hard to pick because his reactions are so mild and easily mistaken. He is a different dog since I got savvy to this and started minding his confidence better. I would urge everyone to look out for these things. Your videos provided a good opportunity to bring it up. Sorry! Totally off topic, too. Carry on. :cool:

Okay, please no one flame me or get offended. This is purely an objective opinion from someone who doesn't know the dog in question. I noticed several things in ness' videos that are very reminiscent of the kinds of things Erik does when he is unravelling due to being way over-aroused. I'm not saying that means Kenz is over-aroused, but I dunno. Sometimes people have said negative things about my training. Most of the time they're just being mean and making assumptions, but I figure I owe it to my animals to take what's said seriously and re-examine my assumptions. So this is just putting it out there in case there's something worth thinking about in it. 1. Darting glances at things, ear flicks, pauses, momentary loss of focus are all things I take note of and use to tell me something is wrong. I have used that even across species. 2. Barking! Erik is extremely vocal by nature, so I know what it's like, but he doesn't bark while we're working unless he's losing it. Just putting it out there. Maybe it's different for BCs. 3. Avoiding cued behaviours. Kenzie doesn't want to do that rooftop. Even when she does it she cuts the corner and only barely jumps over it. In both routines, after she does the rooftop she loses focus for a bit. She also seems a bit worried about going out around the pole thing. She surges back sometimes almost like a charge. I don't think she wants to leave ness. 4. Jumping up. Erik particularly does this when he's super anxious. He puts his paws on my legs regardless of what direction he's facing. When he's jumping up on cue or because he's extra happy, he jumps up in front of me facing me and doesn't always get his paws on my legs. I've seen the same pattern in other dogs. I don't know what Kenzie's normal jumping up pattern is, but putting paws low on my leg from beside or behind is a pretty big deal to me. It makes me worry. 5. Reverting to instinctive behaviours. A few times it looks like Kenz is going to do a herder nip. She lowers her head and ducks it behind ness' leg while she barks. Erik does similar things when he's over-aroused. 6. Lack of precision. I don't know how well the behaviours were trained in the first place, but E gets sloppy when he's over the top. He also gets sloppy if I don't set him up right before I cue behaviours. Some of the behaviours that Kenzie does well sometimes get sloppy at others. I'm not sure why that happens with Kenzie, but I absolutely consider that a red flag in both my dogs. I'm not saying Kenzie necessarily is overly aroused and anxious. I'm saying there was a lot of stuff there that if I saw it in my dogs, I would think I had a fair bit of work to do yet. I was seeing it with Erik in agility training, and that's why I pulled him out. He looks just like those videos of Kenzie when he's only just keeping his head. He looks enthusiastic and plenty functional, but I don't think he's having fun. He is much better now, but I manage his arousal with the aim that he can always control himself. It's not drive if he is just rushing around spitting random extraneous behaviour all over the place. That's arousal. Take my thoughts with a pinch of salt because it is just based on dogs I have known, but maybe it's worth considering what I have experienced?

Aww, Kivi Tarro, you are unnatural. But, we kinda knew that. ;)

Snakes don't have ears so won't hear you coming. I once heard of one that was lying in the grass & was run over by a ride on lawn mower so I don't believe they always feel vibrations either. x 2. There was a snake handler at our local show a few years ago. He explained that because they don't have a skeleton in contact with the ground, they don't feel the vibration. He had his two demo brown snakes who were incredibly feisty, grabbed his snake hook and slammed it into the ground right next to one of the snakes. No reaction at all - was amazing considering just how agitated these snakes were. Well, he's wrong. See here: http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2008/03/04/2179359.htm His snakes have probably been through that demonstration many many times. Just because they don't react to the snake hook hitting the ground near them doesn't mean they are unaware of it. My dogs walked over the top of a little snake back in early August. They didn't notice it and it was too busy making tracks to bother with biting anyone. Erik heard it and went to investigate and I called him off no worries. This winter we have done lots of walking along the river in amongst the rocks where there's not much of a path and supposedly great snake habitat. We found a dead snake one day, but the two live ones we have seen were both on the path. I think that snakes like paths. Somewhere to sun themselves. Roads at night are a good place to find snakes. During the day, when they are not sunning they are usually in hiding. We like checking rock crevices for critters with a torch. I have seen the odd snake in crevices, but not many. Found a crack with two snakes crammed in, once. They are happy in there. They will just watch you and not budge, even if you poke sticks down to try to move them to get a better look (that was not me!). Lots of smaller snakes hang out in deep leaf litter and we never know about it. We are not doing bushwalks until next winter, although we might break the rule to visit the river. I am more worried about ticks than snakes. We have seen snakes and they have never given us any trouble. Leave them alone and they will leave you alone. Our dogs are easily recalled. Spring and summer are nice down on the beaches, though.

Oh, do get over yourself. I had no idea you and your dogs were so vitally important that any potential threat should be automatically taken out. Have you poisoned your entire area? What if a grass seed gets in your dog's skin?? Or they get a tick? Or they piss off a kangaroo? OMG, sounds like you value the life of grass over the life of your dogs! Oh noes, what a do-gooder you are! It's just not necessary to kill them to be safe. If you can put netting down, you can build a bloody snake exclusion zone with shadecloth or flyscreen. Killing snakes only actually reduces the population if it is not at carrying capacity. If you have lots of snakes, my guess is it is at carrying capacity. Assuming the limiting resource is space or food, you remove one snake and another will take its place. Just because you don't see it for a while doesn't mean it's not there. Family friends lived above a swamp and every time they spotted a snake on their land they hunted it down and killed it. It was an ongoing battle. One went and another moved in. When they were able to be snake free for a few months, the rat population increased. Don't mess with stuff you don't understand. Just build a freaking snake barrier and get a good recall on your dogs for when you're on the wrong side of it.

Or, this slowish jazzy swing piece: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKy5wEruHpY or if I were going to do something with Erik, I'd totally go for this kind of thing: Lots of drum and symbol clashes to work with. ;)

Someone do a routine to this song: Given I know nothing at all about DWD, I'm sure I'm full of good ideas. :D But it's just so cute!

I swear some classes are designed to teach dogs to hate obedience.

Err... it is! So call me a do-gooder for caring about cruelty to animals? Shadecloth used in the same way will keep them out and the snakes won't get caught in it. Sure beats the hell out of an angry snake in pain dying in your netting. But hey, wouldn't want to be considered a do-gooder or something. :rolleyes: Shadecloth and fine wire won't catch them and they can't be disposed of that way. a) That is illegal. b) Someone needs to take population ecology 101.

Err... it is! So call me a do-gooder for caring about cruelty to animals? Shadecloth used in the same way will keep them out and the snakes won't get caught in it. Sure beats the hell out of an angry snake in pain dying in your netting. But hey, wouldn't want to be considered a do-gooder or something. :rolleyes:

Comes out?? No it doesn't! Kivi's shed hair goes nowhere until I physically drag it out with a comb. It's very time consuming for a medium-sized dog, and seems to go on for weeks. Don't get me started on the horror that is a long coated dog with diarrhea. I adore my Lappie and the coat care is worth it, but there's no way I'd have more than one long-coated dog. I don't have the time.

I don't do love at first sight. Bringing an animal into my life is exciting because I get to learn who they are. For me, loving them is knowing them. Kivi was the only boy in his litter, and I wanted a boy, so no real choice, there. He is an utter darling. A bit special. In a Kivi way. Erik I didn't meet until he arrived at the airport. I did get to choose him. I picked him because I have a soft spot for fiesty little devils. He sure has taught me a lot! He is loads of fun.

I remember that moment with Penny. My vet cried. I love her for the fact that she cried. She kept it together until Penny went, and then left us, but as she went I looked up to say thank you and she was in tears. It meant a lot to me that we shared that moment. I've seen her upset before over a euthanasia. She said it's always hard, but she tells herself that however awful she feels, it's even worse for the owners and they need her. I think it's especially hard because she doesn't get much of a chance to collect herself. It's a busy practice and she has to go right on to another client.

I would if Kivi had to be clipped. We have ticks around here and he wears a Preventic collar during the spring and summer months and we stay out of the bush. On our recent vet visit our vet asked us why he was wearing a tick collar and whether we had found any ticks on him. We never have, but the tick collars are reportedly very good and for $10 every 2 months it seems a good investment as a backup. When I took my corgi for bushwalks I used to brush her afterwards because I occasionally found an unattached tick. Kivi's coat is so thick even fleas have trouble finding his skin. I still check him even with the tick collar, but not as thoroughly as I would if we had ever actually seen a tick on ourselves or either dog.

Ooh, I like this one. Who do I credit it to? He/she is doing a good job hiding their teeth. I always feel a bit safer if they're doing that.

Aww, thanks. It's pretty easy once you get the hang of it, though. There's a lot of little tips and hints you pick up with experience, but the best thing to do is just get training. I've only been clicker training for about 3 years. The hardest bit was getting them to want to do it in the dog park and on the beach and other exciting places. It took a bit of work for my spitz breeds that like doing their own thing, but they will train pretty much anywhere, now. The trick with two dogs at once is good sits and downs. And remembering to reward them. I walked Erik away from Kivi in a sit at one point in the video and went too far because he got up to come after me. Actually, now that I think about it, that was kinda hard to teach as well. I had a lot of trouble at first getting one of them to hold a sit or down while I worked the other. I had to remember to stay close and reward the one not working often enough so they would stay put. I wasn't very good at reserving a part of my brain for the other dog to begin with. Mostly I don't need to worry because I usually have OH to distract one if he's getting in the way, and they're usually pretty good about working around each other, but it's really useful to be able to plant one somewhere temporarily so they stay out of the way. Erik sometimes has to be watched, though. He sneaks in behind us and bites Kivi's thigh to try to make him leave me so he can come and train instead. He's a brat.

A kennel owner tipped us off to a good wholesale meat supplier in Lansvale, western Sydney. I think they are called Ashfords. On the Hume just down from the McDonalds in Lansvale. We got lamb breast for about $4/kg, turkey thighs for a little under $3/kg, chicken liver, hearts and giblets for around $2/kg, I think, pork bones and trotters, chickens (3 small for $11), and they do a chicken pet mince that is apparently good quality. There were also pig heads, very cheap fish fillets, chicken wings and necks, and a little goat and more exotic poultry.

Corvus This link might be of interest. Google translate will give you some idea of what it is about. http://www.skk.se/prov-tavling/olika-prov-och-tavlingar/bruksprov/ Sorry I am time poor today so no time for any explanation. Thank you! That answers my question.

The training program for my PhD project is structured with 5 minutes on and 3 minutes off for half an hour. They totally need those breaks, particularly because they are driving their own training sessions and if they don't get a break some of them take one anyway and then they forget to go back to it. I usually train in short stints like that as well. Sometimes they start to wander off when I dismiss them, then come back for more training. Even Kivi does this if I've been doing something physically challenging with him. I remember when I first taught him to balance on a log he kept slipping and wasn't very happy, so I let him have a break, but 10 seconds later he went back to the log on his own to try again. I often marvel at how willing my dogs are to do stuff once they realise what it is I want them to do. It's not just willingness, but determination. It's not even really the treats. They get them, but sometimes it's like an afterthought and they seem surprised. They get quite focused and they find ways overcome obstacles to do the behaviour.

I want to see the dog that was taught a "copy me" cue. I'm pretty sure it was Miklosi that taught him. Apparently you need to be an exceptionally clever Malinois or something to learn how to do it. I often wonder if Erik could learn that. He's very clever. I'd call it "Simon says". ;)

Maybe this video will help: It's just me and the dogs messing around and they were both feeling much more chilled than usual, so it's pretty boring. At the end there's some footage of me teaching Erik to vault off my leg. I pat my leg, which is a cue for him to put his front paws where my hand is, then I hold my hand high and hold up two fingers, which is his cue to put his nose on my hand. I've told him where I want his front paws and where I want his nose. Quicker that way, because without the targets I have to try to somehow set him up so he jumps off my knee naturally, or shape jumps where he touches with more and more weight on his front paws as he goes over, then shape back feet in as well, or think of some other way to shape it with paws on first. He's too heavy for me to hold my leg still for him, otherwise I would have taught him to balance on my leg first and then jump from there, although once I got some speed he may well have started skipping the paws bit anyway. Does that help?

Kivi does something a big like that. He's all like "Ayyy! I wanna play with Erik!" and bounces around and tries to run off with him and if I let him off leash he immediately abandons the game with Erik and goes for a wander instead. This is usually when I've put him on leash because he's eyeing off the swamp at the dog park or has already visited it. Erik is an expert at getting training cues out of me. I have learnt to be so careful. He has in the past started undesirable behaviour because when he did it the first time I called him over and told him what I'd prefer he do and then rewarded it. The interrupt, redirect, reward sequence is very popular in positive training circles, but I have to make sure I don't do the reward bit for a good 10 seconds. Preferably not the redirect thing, either. He is a very easy dog to accidentally reward.

I don't actually use a clicker much anymore. I get it out when I want to shape something from scratch without any hints, but mostly I just use verbal markers and targeting. Erik responds to, like, 6 different marker words. Don't ask me why I use so many. He gets the gist of it. He's been taught to target my fingers, so that makes getting behaviours faster, but also means less problem solving for your dog. It helps not to speak much because it just means everything else you do is clearer to the dog, but I chatter a little bit still. :p When I have a clicker in my hand I tend to shut up and just click and treat and nothing else.