corvus

FYI, most doggy daycares don't take pups under 16 weeks. I think that's pretty fair. Apart from the fact that dog daycares are like human daycare and there's often something going around (Kivi picked up a mild case of kennel cough), daycare is also pretty full on for a wee little puppy. You want to make sure your pup is the kind that will love lots of other dogs.

If your (specific, not generic) dog does not tug or did not tug until taught, do you think tugging was/is confrontational to that (specific, not generic) dog?

Hmm. Interesting. Thanks guys.

Kivi was in a pen in the backyard and we paid a dog walker to come around and feed and play with him during the day for the first 5 or 6 months. For Erik, my working arrangements are more flexible. I work from home often and when I go into the office I do a half day and come home at lunch time. He is currently inside in a pen when I go to the office and he toilets on newspaper. He tries damn hard to hold it until I get back, poor mite. I would put him in the yard, but Kivi hates the yard when I'm not there and would bark all day, and Erik would freak out if he was out there without Kivi. Our neighbours don't like our dogs barking, which is fair enough, so they stay inside when we are out where they are quiet.

So for those whose dogs don't (or didn't) tug, would you agree that it's confrontational to them?

An explanation. I read about establishing operations and I'm not sure how this fits in. Why does he go from ducking to catching with just a small increase in arousal? Is it because catching is only rewarding when he's really drivey? Or more rewarding when he's drivey? It seems like when he's really drivey he anticipates the catch whereas when he's not, catching doesn't even occur to him. Why the polarity for something most dogs do in any level of drive? I tried to get some video today but he was kinda borderline so he was wild about tug but not quite at catch level. I did get some footage of him ducking, though. I'll see if I can put something together to post just because I think it's interesting. It didn't help that just as he was getting really focused Erik kept leaping on him and biting him in a million places at once.

Kicking it did sweet FA as well. Dog was too big to pick up bodily by the scruff of the neck, but once it was held by the scruff of the neck the brawling stopped, but Penny was still dangling from the other dog's mouth and she wasn't letting go. Then what? Kicking was tried and it didn't work. The only thing that did work was physically prying those jaws apart. Mind you, the other dog was also ours, so don't know how hard the kicking was. No one wants to hurt their own dog, even in an ugly situation where another dog is in danger. It sounded painful, though. I think if it had not been our own dog the person kicking would have let loose, but nothing short of broken ribs would have done the job. I've seen people try to break up a dog fight by kicking before and it hasn't worked. I guess they don't kick hard enough. I highly doubt I would. I would say if you're gonna kick, make sure you kick as hard as you can and are prepared to deal with broken bones. Anyway, like I said, for better or for worse feet never occur to me and somehow I haven't been bitten yet. It might if it really was an all out two (or more) sided brawl, but if that were the case I'd have my brain in gear and I'd be grabbing the back legs. I have done that in the past and it worked quite well. You wanna hope there's someone else there that can grab the other dog, though. Or that you have a leash on you. Not for their collar; in front of the back legs.

Well, I have, multiple times, different dogs, and I didn't need to kick the dog. Like I said before, it didn't even occur to me at the time to try. I'm a hands person. Nothing works faster than literally grabbing a dog by the scruff of the neck and hauling it off. I've seen people kick dogs in a similar situation and I reckon it's nowhere near as effective as grabbing them. Probably safer, but who cares about safety when your dog is in serious trouble? I have also seen people kick dogs once they have them by the scruff of the neck to try to get them to let go of the other dog. It didn't work. I would like to say it's never okay, but I won't because there will be people that kick in the heat of the moment rather than grab, and I don't think that's wrong. I know from experience, you are not always thinking clearly in these situations.

Really? Do some dogs not like tug? I have never met such a dog. Even Kivi likes tug. Penny had next to no drive and she loved tug. Why is it confrontational? Oh wait, I don't think Alex the Min Pin plays tug. The whole world is a bit on the confrontational side for him, though. Here's a quite detailed article on how to get your dog tugging: http://www.naturaldogblog.com/blog/2007/07...g-on-the-block/

I have a video of him learning to do it somewhere, but I'll have to download it. I don't really need him to catch things, I'm just interested to know what's going on in his head. There's a definite step. Most of the time when I wave something in front of him he just watches, but I know when he's keen to catch it because the look in his eye changes and he tenses up and looks like he's going to come towards it. He prefers to catch small, soft objects. I didn't have anything on me the other day, so I just grabbed a stick. I do realise sticks and dogs don't always mix well. Once he's caught it he pretty much immediately spits it out or throws it back at me for another go. Sometimes he mouths it a bit first. Sometimes he starts a little game of tug, but mostly he just wants me to throw it again. I have tried bouncing it or rolling it away from him. He's not very fast. He chases it and stops it and sometimes brings it back, but I can do that anytime. Don't you think it's interesting that he only catches when he's very aroused and then it's his favourite thing to do? I think it's weird that he can still be drivey, chasing stuff and playing tug, but not want to catch, but then it will change with a little more arousal to ONLY wanting to catch. Maybe it's situational? I don't think he was that worked up when I taught it to him, but I think it caused him to get more worked up, and maybe that made it more rewarding for him and now it's sort of a feedback loop. Does that sound crazy?

Thanks for the reply, dogdude. Kivi naturally has pretty low drive (for a herding dog). It took me about 12 months just to get him to catch something in the first place! What interests me is why does he especially want to catch when he is highly aroused, but at other times it's easy enough to get him to tug or chase? I've played games like you describe holding my hand against Kivi's chest while he pushes against it to get at something. It doesn't really heighten his arousal, though. It's still a low drive activity compared to catching. I mean, it's high compared to lying down having cuddles, but not as high as catching.

Check it out, Erik had his first whole fish today. He is 14 weeks tomorrow. I think it's interesting that he got stuck into that fish without batting an eyelid. It took Kivi a little while to warm to them, but he loves them now. Erik has a little Red Spot Whiting. They are about the size of sardines and very cheap at about $10/kg. I've found sardines to be a bit oily and they used to make Penny throw up, so I usually stick to Whiting. Kivi got a Sand Whiting today, because they are more his size.

I reckon when you take him out during the night, just for a few minutes. If he doesn't do anything within that time, back inside. No playing or running around. It'll just wake him up and make him harder to settle when you go back in, and you don't want him to get into the habit of expecting a run during the night. ETA I wouldn't bother with taking him outside any less than every 2 hours during the night. Crates make this so much easier. They will let you know when they need to go out by crying or barking, then you only need to get up when they have to go. How long have you had him? Once he's used to sleeping in the laundry, you could stretch the times between visits as he will try not to mess where he sleeps. As a general rule of thumb, take how old the puppy is in months and add one and that's how many hours a puppy can be expected to hold it when nothing else like food or play is getting in the way.

Why is it that Kivi Tarro has a threshold in excitement level so that when he is anywhere below that threshold, he will duck if I throw something to him to catch, but as soon as he reaches that threshold he switches to wanting nothing more than for me to throw that toy so he can catch it? Once he has passed that threshold, he'll play a little tug, but mostly he just wants me to throw the toy so he can catch it. Not far, as he wants to be as close to it as possible and I have to keep telling him to back up to give me room to toss it. It fascinates me that when he comes back down past that threshold, he will just stop trying to catch it. If I throw it to him then he ducks. He'll still play tug games and chase a ball, but not interested in catching anymore and I know I'm on borrowed time with tug and chasing as well. I've been saying "Ready! Ready!" to get him revved for catching stuff, and yesterday for the first time I got him revved enough to catch something while we were out of the yard. I was excited by this, but now I don't know what to do with it. Can I use it? It worked pretty well yesterday to get his mind off the rowdy game of frisbee he wanted to play with some other dogs. Once he'd caught a stick a few times he lost interest in catching and games of frisbee.

As a guide, I have been told that a puppy's stomach is the size of its paw. I haven't found that to be very useful, though! I feed about the size of two paws in mince and vegies twice a day and one meal of chicken wings (just one for my little puppy). I have no idea what that equates to with kibble, as I think it depends on the kibble. I kind of do it by feel. If the puppy seems skinny, I give them more. If the puppy starts looking pudgy, I give them less. I haven't really had to adjust, come to think. They seem to thrive on whatever I give them. The important thing to remember is there is variation in how much an individual dog will need, depending on the quality of the food and the activity level of the dog and with pups, whether they are going through a bit of a growth spurt. So that's why I do it mostly by feel.

Well, it took a long time when I first started trying to break up the crazy wrestling matches! It doesn't anymore, though. When I get down on the floor now they gather around me and start quieting down right away. I had to teach 'em that was the deal, though. Erik is a low-key working breed, but sometimes I feel like I have a Border Collie. He gets going and it's 2 hours of just running around barking and tackling and ripping up anything that moves. Kivi has a lot of tolerance for him, but even he gets tired of these epic puppy play times.

I have also heard it doesn't agree with some dogs, but my dogs don't have any problems with it. They tend to get sick of it if I feed a lot, but otherwise, no problems with it. They don't get sick of beef, though. Kangaroo is a sustainable meat. It's good for the environment and free of chemicals. I researched the internal parasites thing before I went onto raw and was satisfied that my chances of buying meat even pet grade with internal parasites was slim. At any rate, my dogs are regularly wormed (as I'm sure yours are as well). Roo mince here costs about $3.80 a kilo if I buy it from Cliff at Just Food 4 Dogs, but I ran out of mince this week and picked some up from the pet food store for about $5 a kilo. It's more expensive than beef here. I've been thinking of mixing some roo in with my beef to make up for some of the overly fatty batches I get sometimes.

They are just wee little babies. We never had any problems with Erik, but Kivi was a bit younger when we got him and for the first few nights whined a fair bit even though he was in a crate in our bedroom. Unlike persephone, I did go to him and sat with him until he calmed down. Only took about half an hour all up out of the first night (over a couple of visits), another few minutes on the second night in one visit, and he was all good after that. He just didn't want to be all by himself. When he realised he wasn't he settled down and no more noise after that. I like puppies in the bedroom in a crate. They just settle nice and quick. Erik is sleeping through until 5:30am most nights at the moment and he's only 14 weeks. Kivi was sleeping through the night from 9 weeks.

I can tell you what I would do, because I am in the exact same situation, except my older dog is only 18 months. Kivi doesn't often get tired of Erik, but he does and even though he doesn't ever "correct" Erik, I know he has had enough because he keeps getting up to move away from Erik. Problem is, if Erik just keeps at it Kivi will usually play with him again. On the one hand, I am keen to have them sort themselves out as soon as possible. I don't want to be intervening and splitting them up all the time. On the other hand, Kivi has every right to a break from crazy puppies that bite too hard and throw themselves onto his shoulders. So sometimes I put Erik in his pen with something to chew on for a while, and sometimes I get down on the floor with them and just interrupt them when they start playing again. It really does not take long to convince them to take a break and chill for a while. Erik is nearly 14 weeks and I am intervening so much less than I was a few weeks ago.

I have a feeling some dogs hump when they want to interact with another dog pretty badly but don't really know how to go about it, too. Interestingly, Erik was humping a large Berner puppy in his puppy class on the second week when he was still anxious, but wanting to engage with the other dogs. The next week he did it less. The next week he was really gaining in confidence and didn't do it at all. He hasn't done it to any other dog in the last few weeks, either.

Holy crap! I would never 'accidentally' run over a dog's paw or tail with a bike. That is, IMO, outright cruel, and there's a very real danger you will make the dog in question even more aggressive towards bikes. Who wants that? I would pick a different route to avoid the little dog. Or get off and walk past it with the bike between you and it.

I like long lines. I like them because sometimes they can give you a bit of leeway with loose leash walking. In my mind, the longer a dog can be walking on a loose leash before they hit the end in the learning stage the easier it is to teach them what you want, although that's just my mind. I taught Kivi to walk on leash with a 5m longline to start with, and I liked it so much I'm doing the same with Erik. I think the field idea is a good one. I did that with Kivi as well, and I think it helped him get into some good habits of checking in and listening out for me. I wonder if there is anything she knows really well that she will do without really thinking about it? We are just starting leashes and walks with Erik at the moment and when he gets all like "OMG, Kivi's way ahead of me and I needs to runtocatchupwithhim!!! I stand there and after a few seconds of carrying on he realises throwing himself forward isn't working, then I might ask for a sit because he's very good at that and when he's sitting he's not pulling. But it sounds like it might not work for your dog. Mine is a good deal less intensely fixated on going somewhere. Hope the trainer helps you out. Having a dog that walks well on leash makes life so very pleasant.

So, I wasn't quite clear on what happens when you go onto the footpath... Do you wait until she has calmed down before moving off? Is she better if you do that?

I've never had to, and I've had some damn scary moments. I've pushed them away with my hands, though, which is stupid, but you don't think of those things when you are scared an animal is going to hurt someone, possibly you. I don't imagine myself doing it because in the past it has never occurred to me. I always dive in with my hands and think later that feet probably would have been safer. Safer, maybe, but they aren't exactly a precision instrument. I'd probably end up kicking the wrong dog.

Interesting stuff.