corvus

Do you think you can teach a dog to be more creative or persistent? I started off doing lots of free shaping with Kivi, but as he grew older he seemed to become less creative and the process more stressful. On the other hand, I think his persistence has improved with making sure we take very small steps, reward lots, and raise the criteria slowly. Erik isn't a year old, yet, so it's hard to say. I find him to be a very creative dog in general. He makes his own fun if I don't direct his activities. I'm not sure whether creativity is separate to a willingness to try new things, though. I guess I'm thinking that a dog might be encouraged to try things it hasn't been rewarded for in the past, but it wouldn't necessarily come up with those new things itself unless it was creative? I hope more people answer!

I would agree with that. Kivi's not that fast, though. He shambles. The Vallhund can outpace him even on those little legs.

Unless the "reward" is merely going forwards... If the problem is just anticipation for something that comes at the end of a walk it's not that big a deal to derail the anticipation by mixing it up a bit so that the dog can't reliably predict. We have had to do it for a few things with Erik and have learnt to be VERY careful about anything approaching routine rewards. Erik is weird, though. He is too smart and seems to have a long window of potential association for lack of a better term. And he's oddly driven about rewards in general. Most dogs I've known aren't that good at making associations between things that happen more than a few minutes apart. And even then they often need stepping stones of predictable cues along the way. They just want to take another step forwards to get to those new smells and so forth. That's why they don't get bored if you just do the same walk around the block every day. It's different every day to them.

Can you get the Japanese type in Australia? I was under the impression that the Japanese type is not competetive in the ring with the American type, so the American type is predominant. Love the Japanese type, though!

*squeals* Black puppy paw pads on white footsies! That is great news. Way to go, Emmy!

Good to hear how things are going. It sounds like he's a bit over threshold if he doesn't respond to a come when in that fixated state. You can handle that with lots and lots of conditioning. Try teaching him a compulsive whip-around. Practise saying his name and as soon as he turns towards you throw a piece of food away from you both and tell him to "get it!". Or you can hold onto the food if you don't want to risk teaching him to whip around to the wrong place. :D Make sure you do it in lots of different situations when he's not fixated on things. Otherwise, the long line sounds good.

I love that! Keeps you on your toes. I think that's a fair call. As spitz breeds go they are amongst the more reliable ones, though. Kivi is about 95% reliable on most things. You have to make it worth his while and expect to pay him with something decent, like food. But what he misses out on in reliability he makes up for in sheer teddy bear sweetness. There's nothing like having your own living teddy bear to cuddle. It's funny the dogs guys go for. A lot of guys think our Swedish Vallhund looks like a great dog. He's a small dog, but he's really tough and strong. And I guess he looks a bit like a serious breed, like a GSD, only short. I wouldn't have picked Valls as a breed that would appeal to men.

In my experience the dogs that do this (regardless of breed) are often "super dominant" in terms of body language. On their toes, sometimes pilar erect, tails up and wagging furiously. If a dog rebuffs their display and offers anything other than submissive responses, they react aggressively. Might have been it, although that's what kind of throws me. I don't notice anything like that and I normally do if it's there. I meant the body language change in the Stafford, ellz. I guess I'm used to dogs that do a lot of warning before they get as far as snapping, even. Sometimes it might be really subtle so that most people don't pick it up, and some dogs don't, either, but if I can see it I have time to do something. I've never been able to step in before a SBT gets going. Fair point about the dog parks. I often wonder if they are suitable dog park dogs, really. I guess people tend to think they are because they are so friendly and outgoing. As long as no one treads on their toes they continue to be friendly and outgoing. Anyway, I don't wanna take the thread off topic. Seems like the OP has probably ruled out SBTs.

Okay, don't take this wrong because I'm not bagging the breed. We love these guys and OH generally takes about 3 seconds to be on the ground rubbing bellies whenever he sees a SBT. My thing is, I have SO OFTEN seen these guys construe what most dogs would consider warnings as something to fight about. These are what I think of as well socialised dogs. They're at the dog park getting along fine with everyone, but then they'll go too close to a dog that isn't that keen on being jumped on and that dog will growl a warning and it's all on for the SBT. I am relieved these dogs have good bite inhibition and don't cling on like people often say they do. They make their point and leave off. Still scares the bejesus out of me, though. I just find them hard to follow. They are all super happy and then WHAM. What happened? It'll be so quick I didn't even see the body language change. Then back to happy as soon as it's over.

Oh boy, breed choice thread! Aussies are really popular! They seem to be a great breed to me. I would always prefer my Lappies 'cause they're a spitz breed and just that little bit less intense and that little bit more independent (plus they have cute little pointy ears and curly tails). I love my Lappie's spitz moments. He gives me just enough of them to appreciate how easy he is to get along with most of the time. I used to be into GSDs when I was a kid and there was this guy down the road with one called Rebel who seemed to have a relationship with that dog bordering on magical. You'd see him out in the yard lying on the ground with Rebel having quiet personal time and I was like "I want that with a dog". Then I grew up and realised I wanted moments like that, but not all the time! My last dog was a bit obsessed with me and I found it stressful to be honest. I felt like that was a lot of pressure on me somehow. I love my Lappie because I can leave him with anyone and he will be perfectly happy. He won't sulk or get depressed. I can understand why people like that super people-focused temperament, though. Erik is a bit like that and he's so much easier to train than the Lappie. We barely had to teach him a recall at all. He always has an ear out for us. I think Lappies can be good obedience/agility dogs if you get the right one. I doubt my boy would be very quick, though. It's hard work getting him motivated enough to break out into a trot, let alone a run. Other Lappies compete, though. Lappies I think are a good compromise for people that want a Husky for the look of them but would find one hard to keep up with. Lappies look similar, but I reckon they are prettier (pied racing sibes aside;)) and a good deal easier to train and more reliable and are quite a bit more friendly towards strangers IME as well. They don't need as much exercise, are a little smaller, and a lot more easy going. And cuddly. Nothing like Lappie cuddles. My Lappie is quite possibly one of the sweetest dogs in existence. He's over 2, now, and still not so much as a growl from him. He has the tolerance of a saint and most people declare that he has a lovely nature within about 10 seconds of meeting him. Friendly, but gentle. Too lazy for a real Lapphund, though. SBTs are pretty freaking friendly, and I guess from what other people on here say a good agility or obedience prospect, but I find the short fuse to be a bit scary. Happy happy happy then suddenly they are picking a fight because some dog told them to go away. I dunno if this is normal, but I have rarely seen a SBT just growl or snap. They seem to dive right in with bites and wrestling. Don't think it would be a good mix for Jet. I reckon Aussie or Lappie.

Oooooo

Nice post by The Spotted Devil. I see yawning way more often as a self-regulating of arousal sort of scenario. Erik yawns A LOT, and he's one that has trouble sometimes controlling his arousal levels. He does it without fail every time he sits on one of us for a cuddle. It's like he's excited by the cuddling but trying to get into a relaxed state at the same time. He yawns a few times and relaxes a little with each one. I think in light of what's been going on with the kitties it's a good sign. I would interpret it to mean she's keeping her arousal in check, but would temper that by suggesting it's not really what you want. Ultimately you want no internal conflict at all, which would mean no yawning. But it's better than the bright-eyed, excited stare of a dog that wants to eat the kitty.

There's nothing like a bit of anticipation to get a more enthusiastic response. I'd try jackpotting the fastest downs. Either with multiple treats or something tastier than usual. I'd be surprised if they didn't get faster. It works for my lazy couch potato.

You could let me come and test his "optimism" in a few months when I have my optimism testing aparatus made. Optimism and cognitive biases aside, I think that expending energy for no real reason is a good indicator of positive welfare. Things like running and playing just for the heck of it. We don't know much about figuring out if an animal is in a good emotional state at the moment. I think there is a system someone wrote where you score behaviours to get an index of welfare, but it's still a bit tricky. I think anticipatory behaviour can also be an indicator of positive welfare. They have tested it in rats, giving them a signal that means they are getting a sucrose reward. If they get really excited they are considered to be in a positive emotional state.

I am thinking a frequency scale. As in, persists with training when not rewarded/punished never -> always. I'm thinking of the way some dogs give up quite quickly if things aren't going their way whereas other dogs keep at it. Kivi throws in the towel at the slightest provocation. He just throws himself on the ground in protest. He will at least get back up and have another go with encouragement, now, but man, I'd better make it easy. Erik tries something else or just tries the original thing harder.

Oh, I see. So they have less time to build up momentum before the leash goes taut if the leash is attached to the neck rather than farther back near the shoulders? I think part of our problem was the leash being a bit long. It is true that this kind of thing happens to me a bit. I'm really good at staying on my feet, though! I'm not accident prone, but quiet ambles along the river do tend to turn into exploratory adventures through the bush, which is why I walk the dogs in waterproof trailrunners. Love those shoes. I guess what seems like a not improbable accident to me is a pretty wildly improbable accident to other people.

Whenever I think of persistence or creativity in dogs I can't get past clicker training and shaping 'cause it seems to apply so strongly there. If you were asked to rate your dog's persistence and creativity in training, would you be able to answer those questions? If so, what training methods do you use and how would you judge those traits?

There was this lass on another forum who has a manic Flat-coated Retriever that thought biting was the most fun a dog could have. Nothing worked! She bit hard enough to leave bruises. The owner got a trainer in who told her quiet voices, no sudden movements, nice and calm. She was teaching the dog the names of different toys so that when she would get excited she could tell her to go and fetch one for a game. I think redirection is a good approach. You just have to find something that they like to do enough to forget about chewing you.

I think it depends on the personalities. I have a bossy desexed boy and a mellow desexed boy. I think I would go for a desexed girl next, because of the bossy boy. Maybe go for a different size if number 3 might be bossy as well. My boys don't show any preference for sex and have best pals that are girls and best pals that are boys, but one of my mother's dogs doesn't like boys much. She takes a long time to accept a new boy.

They make me too. That's good to know, though. We had some once that I nearly put in the BARF mix, but in the end I wasn't sure about them so I left them out.

Awww. Kivi has more than once turned up in the house with a slug in his coat. I do not know what he does to get them in there, but they are REALLY hard to get back out again! We joke that he invites them. Bet he has the house mouse living in his coat as well. I think maybe the bigger concern than size differences is how your Cav would cope with another dog? If you say he hangs back when there are other dogs around, maybe you would have to be really careful to get a super laid back second dog for his sake?

Hehe, the hare has dibs on all leftover, bruised, or overripe berries in this house. No one loves them as much as he does, although if one falls on the floor Erik takes care of it before it can be retrieved for the hare. Bananas are also a hare favourite, but Erik gets a bite if he's lucky because he gives me the "I'm being SOOOO good!" face while sitting there on his absolute best behaviour. He still likes apples better, though. He can barely contain himself for the time it takes me to eat down to the core. The sweet potato ends normally go to the rabbit, who has been known to do binkies of joy over sweet potato. Her favourite is carrot tops, though. We often buy Dutch carrots just so she can have the carrot tops.

No garlic? How can that be right? People feed their dogs garlic all the time. It comes in some commercially available raw foods.

I just like the other dog's reaction. He comes over and has a sniff and just kinda looks at Erik as if he's thinking "Are you seriously eating vegetables? I don't get it. It is just a cucumber, right? Er... right... I'm going to go lie down. Weirdo." Kivi refuses to eat his breakfast if his mashed vegies aren't mixed in to his meat well enough. But Kivi's thing is eggshells. He crunches them down and Erik is the one looking at him like "Why would you eat eggshells?"

Erik has always had a weird thing for vegetables. He loves raw carrot and sweet potato, cucumber, tomatoes, raw potato. He gets very excited whenever I'm eating fruit. Apples are his favourite, because he gets to eat the core (minus seeds). I just threw out some old vegetables from the fridge and he became convinced he wanted them. Particularly the capsicum. I had a dog once before that ate several green capsicums out of the garden in a day and made herself sick, so I gave him about a third of a small cucumber instead, thinking he would get sick of it soon enough, but he ate it all quite greedily and is now back at the kitchen tidy barking at it and jabbing it with his nose looking for more vegies. Guess it needs emptying. Anyway, is there anything besides onion and grapes/sultanas that I shouldn't give him?