Luke W

Oh yeah - Bakly loves chewing on this: http://www.vetproductsdirect.com.au/itemdesc.asp?ic=PRM33 There have been threads about these on DOL before - dogs love 'em.

It took Barkly ages to have an interest in Kongs. He still doesn't really chew them unless they've got food in them. I feed Barkly all his meals in a Kong and he occasionally gets an 'icey kong' (kibble soaked in chicken stock, plug with cream cheese). I started with an easy treat ball and feed all his meals in that. If he likes lamb - he might like lambs hearts.

That's really cool! Good to watch you work LP. I notice you click and say "good boy" Such a coincidence. I was just working on Barkly's "spit it out" routine with an assortment of objects (tennis ball, hacky sack, orbee), clicker and treats, only to come back and see this! Added: Watched some of your other videos!! Inspiring!

bummer... Go buy yourself a bucket of ice cream, some ice magic and crushed peanuts. Or a cheesecake. Or make a pavlova. Or all three. That's what I'd do

What was wrong with you the way you were? Hey you still havent answered my email. What a rood barrstarrd. I'm going to start a thread now about feeling ignored The old Luke got a little warm under the collar. oh no - please resend your email and I will spend the day composing the nicest email reply you've ever laid your eyes on! I'll even use special stationary!

That's a really good point Anita! We thanks you!!!!!! Got to make sure it's fun!

hmmm...I need a holiday!

Title pretty much says it all. Does anyone know of skilled trainers/handlers who do private tutoring in Melbourne? I'm looking for someone who's skilled at clicker training and shaping and who's got experience in obedience and agility trialling. Too much to ask? Everyone too busy with their own dogs? Well, I thought I'd ask anyway. Cheers.

Well, after my recent posts about food reliance and heel problems, I thought I'd post something a bit more positive! Today I took Barkly down the beach (St Kilda West, off lead area). I'd planned to let him have a run, do a little bit of obedience and encourage him to swim. He hasn't been too keen on swimming yet - loves to wade and run in the shallows though. Anyway - it's a beautiful 26C, blue sky, light cloud and a light breeze. Perfect conditions! The tide is out so there's a stretch of sandbars just off shore. Perfect for wading along off-shore, from sandbar to sandbar. There's the odd deeper stretch between the sandbars which is perfect for Barkly to swim for 10-20 meters or so. Anyway... What a great couple of hours! Barkly finally started to enjoy swimming! After a few reluctant swims on previous days, he finally started simming without hesitation and without needed heaps of encouragement. He actually seemed to enjoy it! Yay!! I ran him through a few commands, sits, downs, stands, spins, move to heel, etc and he did them all with aplomb - under the distraction of the beach, the people and the other dogs...all for kibble! Marvellous. We walked up and down the beach for a while, throwing in the odd command or two or three occasionally, practicing recalls (100%!!! - even from other dogs and people) and wading and swimming between sandbars. Then I got out my Orbee ball and he worked for Orbee! The standard stuff: sit, down, stand, move to heel, front, spin, hand touches. 1 or 2 or 3 commands per chase of the Orbee, with some Orbee tug and chase thrown in for jackpots! We even got some short heel work in (straight lines, left and right abouts, not perfect by pretty good) all with Orbee. 10 steps, left about, mark...Orbee chase! 5 steps, left about, right about, mark, Orbee chase! I'm feeling much more upbeat. And so's Barkly! Anyway...he's now just finished a chicken frame and he's got the zoomies. Some days are diamonds.

Mh first thought echoed KelpiePup. Prepare for an extinction burst (where the behavior gvets worse before it stops).

I mix up the food... He'll work like a trooper if I smell like diced beef/lamb! A bit less so for kibble.

I really need to do some videos!

Yep, that's what I'm doing too. Except Barkly knows

Thanks for that!! Barkly's not quite so focused with ball. His heel work (on a good day) is probably on par with yours. I noticed the bark - I feel so much better now !!

hehe - I know what you mean. Barkly knows what a hand movement toward my pocket means! it's so hard to be patient! I guess one of the problems is I see these obedience/schutzhund/doggie dancing/agility dogs on YouTube and that's sets the bar pretty high!

Hope you didn't take any offence to anything I said. The whole 'reliance on food' thing is mainly about trialling. I'm happy to walk around with a pocket of kibble for the rest of my life and hand it out after every second command. But I can't do that in the ring can i? ps - disastrous session :lol: - distracting cricketers on the green, a found lamb chop bone and he'd just had dinner so even the food wasn't enough to keep him focused on me. Wasn't much interested in tug either. Tried to eat his targeting yoghurt lid. arghhhh

I learnt the same thing re bridge... The mark/click is a bridge between the behavior and the reward. "Yes" is the common bridge word. But it's semantics anyway. I do a similar thing to you sometimes Jules. "Stay" . . "goood boy" . . . "goood boy" . . . Click Free Treat ...But it's not something I want to get into the habit of. I'm not sure it's wise to be relying on encouragement during long duration behaviors. At least for obedience. added after S'n'Ts comment... Yep, you are right - I should shut up! Going outside for quick session..

Like kelpiechick says - each trainer might have their own method. The typical method is to simply slightly delay the click/treat and slowly increase the duration of the delay. So... "sit" pause click/treat release "sit" pause, pause click/treat release Now to teach the release...what I do... I click/treat for the behavior, if he holds the behavior, I click treat again, pause, and again, pause, and again. Then give a release cue. So... "Sit" pause pause click/treat pause pause pause click/treat pause pause pause click "free" treat hm.... I need to think about this, I'm not necessarily being very clear to the dog.

No problem - natter away I really like to hear other peoples methods and thoughts on training mechanisms. For what it's worth, I've also got a verbal marker. "Boop". I treat it exactly the same as a click and treat after every "boop". For already learnt behaviors (sit, down etc)...I'll do a sequence of commands, sometimes saying "good boy" between each one (similarly for encouragement during a long stay command), then mark (either click or 'boop'), then release ("free"), then treat. Note: I'm a bit slack with my release and really think I need to make sure I use it ALL the time. I also have a 'we're finished' command as well..."Off ya go, all done"... What should I watch tonight? Bob Bailey, Ted Turner or Ivan Balabanov? Or Stargate SG-1 ?

Who's this Maree trainer god you speak of and does she come down to Melbourne

I'm under the impression that as long as the 'click' occurs before the release, it doesn't matter so much when the reward is given... From http://www.clickertraining.com/node/642 CT = CLicker Training TWC = Training with Clicker Is the treat delivered "in position"? CT: The emphasis is on delivering the treat as soon as possible after the click (though never simultaneous with the click). The treat is delivered regardless of the animal's position subsequent to the click. The trainer knows that the animal's position at the instant of treat delivery is reinforced, and so, when planning a training session, considers various ways to provide the reinforcement. TWC: The emphasis is on delivering the treat while the dog is still in the correct position. Treats may be withheld if the dog moves out of position when hearing the click (e.g., the dog forges ahead of heel position or gets up from a sit). The way I do it, (working with a clicker and release commands)... "Sit" Dog Sits. Click Reward If dog continues to sit... Click Treat If dog continues to sit... Click Treat If dog continues to sit... Click Treat If dog continues to sit... Click Treat Release word This trains the dog to remain sitting until the release word is given.

I'm going to take Barkly for a walk - then come back and have a good read of all these new responses!! By the way S'n'T - "Speak" was one of the first things I taught him...and the cue was "Bark"...not a smart idea for a dog called Barkly D'Oh. Oh - and he'll be doing obed and agility He targets stick and hand.

Do you use a release word? Eg.. "Sit" "Down" "Stand" Click "Free" Treat ? How long do you go before you've "finished working with them" and they get released/rewarded?

The best!!

Thanks Luke. Actually no, I'm using Gwen Bailey's book 'The Perfect Puppy' but I read it ages ago and remembered the lure part but not the hand signal part. She teaches a voice cue first and then adds in the hand signal for DOWN. so I guess it is flexible. (suppose I could have checked that before posting here, duh!) What book of Dunbar's teaches commands. I don't remember it in 'Before you get an alligator...oops...I mean Puppy' Anyway, Good news! I just tried using a pointed finger with the dog as I was commanding sit and he sat then I gradually left out the vouce cue and just added a pointed finger - he got it straight away. Clever Pup! Now I'm luring the down with a treat in a face down palm which I sweep down in front of him. I'll do the same and gradually leave out the voice cue. Wish me luck! Kelpie pup I will def use a flat palm for stay - that is easiest I think. We aren't up to stay yet since recall needs massive working on as he decides when he wants to come atm naughty pup I'm also trying to get him to focus on me at all times using a lure - as in eyeball to eyeball- but I think he's a little too wee to be able to look up at me. Should I get down to his level or just persist from a low crouch? Thanks again guys - your advice is awesome Gwen Bailey is very Dunbar Dunbar teaches commands in his videos. Quite often the lure becomes a hand signal. In the case of down/drop, you move the lure from dogs eye level to the ground. Then you do the same thing without the lure. Then you gradually keep the same motion but start higher and finish higher. Until eventually you are starting at shoulder level and finishing at hip level.