dog geek

Yeah,, the cages are NOT good... But the instructive aspects of the other modifications that occur with the particolour are so interesting! This relates to the breeding difiiculties inherent particolour Poms so well - the shorter legs for instance, and possibly a connection with the hip/elbow construction... And espinay2, I do indeed inform my potential puppy buyers of possible health concerns well before they make up their minds to purchase from me. :)

I guess essentially I am breeding for colour only... so long as I am also able to retire from breeding in thirty years knowing that I made the best efforts I could to improve the health of Australian Poms, specifically the health of Australian particolour Poms, being a "colour breeder" won't seem like such a stigma. Clearly, Australian Particolour lines need work - this bitch's sire, and the dam of my young dog, do have some lovely American and English dogs behind them, not related to my imports, but the older Australian lines do look quite different to the showline Poms in the ring now. I personally prefer Poms with longer, tapered noses, in order to minimise tear duct or dentition issues. I also personally prefer Poms of around 3kg, because I suspect minimising canines, to the extent we have, will introduce problems such as syringomyelia or other cerebrospinal disorders. "Coloured" Poms are not a product of out-breeding as the Merles are; they arise naturally and in my eyes are exciting because of the difficulties inherent in maintaining type while producing loud and flashy patterns and colours. 'Sides, how cool is the whole colour genetics thing!!! Sooooo complicated, and hard to understand! I have to ask...'cos they are cool...did the colour originate from the Papillion? Not these lines, it didn't. If I could refer you to the famous Belyaev Russian Fox experiment... in fact here is a link to a cool site Cornell University have conveniently provided, describing the history behind the experiment: http://cbsu.tc.cornell.edu/ccgr/behaviour/Index.htm And here is a link to the domestic foxes, produced by the original Fur-Fox Farm, being sold now as pets: http://sibfox.com/ Boy are they PRETTY!

Well, I would love to be spoiled for choice in selecting breeding bitches... but I am not. Firstly, I seem to be having a world of trouble finding any Pomeranian breeders who will sell me a bitch - can't imagine why. And then - yes, it seems such soundness is part of the genetic complement passed on by each parent, and that so far my sire seems to passing sound hips and knees on to his offspring... now that this litter qualifies as a "test mating" I have an even better opportunity of assessing the soundness of this hypothesis. Finally - I failed to remember to add to the previous posts that I am paying for xrays and screening of the four pups I have bred and homed so far. Three of them are pet homes; but they have still been screened by a specialist for eye health, and will be screened for hip/elbow ehalth at the appropriate age... ... still disgraceful??

BTW... I am quite prepared to do my own research on health issues, I am quite capable of having a well-informed and respectful discussion with my vet regarding the pros and cons of using this bitch, and I think we can all agree that the AVA guidelines are a little, well, stringent when it comes to real life situations. And mind you, my vet's experience with Pomeranians is why I selected him in the first place. In addition, while it sounds like fun to rip off the buyers of my pups by landing the poor, unsuspecting darlings with dogs riddled with health issues... I actually have been responding to all the inquiries I have received with full disclosure of the health screening etc I adhere to - to the extent that the more serious they get, the more information I provide, including copies of the health screening results of the pup - and its parents, too. With the most recent enquiries, I have, upon initial contact, directly informed the prospective buyers of the untested health status of the dam of the future litter, and described her potential genetic contributions to the pups. Not sure if I still qualify as giving "responsible, ethical breeders a bad name"... nor if I am indulging in disgraceful behaviour...? ...and may I just say - thankyou, I think their colours are pretty too!

I guess essentially I am breeding for colour only... so long as I am also able to retire from breeding in thirty years knowing that I made the best efforts I could to improve the health of Australian Poms, specifically the health of Australian particolour Poms, being a "colour breeder" won't seem like such a stigma. Clearly, Australian Particolour lines need work - this bitch's sire, and the dam of my young dog, do have some lovely American and English dogs behind them, not related to my imports, but the older Australian lines do look quite different to the showline Poms in the ring now. I personally prefer Poms with longer, tapered noses, in order to minimise tear duct or dentition issues. I also personally prefer Poms of around 3kg, because I suspect minimising canines, to the extent we have, will introduce problems such as syringomyelia or other cerebrospinal disorders. "Coloured" Poms are not a product of out-breeding as the Merles are; they arise naturally and in my eyes are exciting because of the difficulties inherent in maintaining type while producing loud and flashy patterns and colours. 'Sides, how cool is the whole colour genetics thing!!! Sooooo complicated, and hard to understand!

Hm, I guess the short answer is, I bred her because I have been hunting the lines she carries from her sire for around six months now. Not that I am aiming at being argumentative, but Poms are hard to find available sound specimens of, and sound Australian particolour Pomeranians are even harder to find... The long answer carries on below - I do get a bit boring when the opportunity to talk about my hopes and plans arises... apologies in advance! Sadly, of the two (reputable) breeders that I do know have these lines, one due to personal reasons is not breeding or selling, the other does not seem to sell to new breeders. Those lines are old Australian particolour lines - so yes, to that extant I am breeding for colour; not her colour, though, as I am not convinced she is a particolour... but she carries particolour. The other two particolour breeders I could have purchased from unfortunately have dogs too closely related to my own dogs. This all meant I was going to end up taking some very unexpected detours in my breeding plans... and when this bitch became available, she became one possible detour. Yes her conformation is not as sound as my imported dogs... but it is becoming clear that if I work with the lines already here in Australia, soundness in the particolours is remarkable only when you do have a sound dog. My stud's first litter was to an Australian particolour bitch, pretty much same conformation as the bitch being discussed, but a longer upper arm, not quite so elbows-out, and her shoulders were better. The male pup I have from that litter is better than his dam, closer to the Pom standard. This male pup was going to go over the bitch in question - until I got a good look at her and decided to put my best dog over her, then use my pup over her best offspring. As I mentioned - her sire's lines are very close to those lines I was hunting; they would be a worthy combination with my pup's lines, given the linebreeding to my imports that I was planning on doing. Using her was not really worthy of a great deal of comment, I would have thought. Do not most breeders attempt to improve on their current stock? Have no other breeders ever been in the position of facing a bit of a dead-end in their programs unless some lateral thinking is applied? Clearly, if she was the best I could do for the next step in my programme, she must have some qualities that balance her faults. And surely, I must be confident that my sire is able to improve on most of her faults? In actual fact, I am confident my sire can improve on bad shoulder, upper arm, and knee construction. He has done so in the two litters he has sired. I have had his xrays screened and recorded in the ANKC program, and my imported bitch's as well, which is certainly not commonly done by Australian breeders. He has excellent scores for his elbows and hips, and I went a little further and had their shoulders and knees xrayed and assessed at the same time, and his again were excellent. I have a vet I am confident is able to accurately assess patella or joint problems - he has checked the five pups, sired by my dog, that I have - and all have excellent patellas, and no concerns about their hips, elbows, and shoulders. (I also have ALL my Poms assessed by a canine ophthalmologist for the CERF program... I am pretty keen to improve the health of Australian Poms) Oh - and the qualitiies I felt outweighed this bitch's faults were: She has excellent dentition; excellent black pigment; good coat; nice tight feet; good short neck; plenty of rib; good size (not too small); she is fit, healthy, and active; she free-whelped five pups in her first litter; and she has an excellent temperament, really just what I like in a Pom. Would be nice to have had a better choice than her - in fact now that I do, I am greatly relieved she is not going to be contributing to my breeding program. Ultimately, I don't at all mind explaining my choices on a public forum - as I consider my choices to be informed by: a good understanding of the possible consequences a dedication to producing sound dogs of my chosen breed - hence my outlay on two imports from stock that is formally health-screened by specialist vets an acknowledgment that, while the majority of Australian Pomeranians are quite sound, this is less true of Australian particolour Poms

Care to explain the considerations behind your comment? Are you concerned a pregnancy will strain her hips? Or are you concerned I will end up with pups as unsound as her?

Definitely take her to have her ear canal checked - it might be a grass seed... And the amoxcillins are NOT safe for pregnant bitches in the first trimester!! They DO cause gastrochisis - the intestines develop outside the abdominal wall. Good post, Tralee - should be pinned in this thread, that is great info.

Hi, Alyosha, are your kids back at school yet? Mine are still cluttering up the house... Ah, but she does have dark black vibrissae, which was one indicator of sable; and also, here is a picture of her as a puppy: Daisy has Orange, Black, and Sable Particolour in her immediate ancestry; and Black and Tan Particolour a bit further back as well as the three colours already mentioned... I had bought Sweetie because I couldn't get Ginger (or her littersister, or half-sisters) until her purchase fell through. Sweetie has conformation that I really wasn't keen to add to my breeding program unless I really had to, her legs are good sound bone but she has short upper arms and straight shoulders and is a bit elbows-out; and her hips are possibly not good given she has patellas that are around 3/3 and is too straight in the stifle.

Okay, I must be bored :laugh: I just spent two or three days trying to work out which genes my dogs have... Anyone care to cast an eye over my efforts? I am a little confused as to whether I am supposed to put two of each gene (AyAy), or instead just one (Ay)... ...or indeed if some of the genes for colour are represented by two, and some of them by just one... So I have: Comet (Char's Portentious Parti) Black and White Particolour AsAs/Bb/DD/EE/KB/Sw+/Tt and Daisy (Char's Love Me Love Me Not Parti) Orange and White (Sable?) Particolour AyAy/BB?/CC/EE/ky/Sw+/Tt Who together produced: Sumo (Enrgeez Th Parti Enforsa) Creme and White Particolour AyAy/BB?/CchCch/DD/EE/ky/Sw-/? and Puppycop (Enrgeez Furst Azleep AtThParti) Black and White Particolour AsAs/BB?/CC/DD/EE/KB/Sw+/Tt And Nene (Enrgeez Parti Portent) Orange and White (Sable?) Particolour AyAy/BB?/CC/DD/EE/ky/Sw-/Tt And Sunny (Enrgeez Parti Harmoniza) Orange and White (Sable?) Particolour AyAy/BB?/CC/DD/EE/ky/Sw+/Tt And then, Comet was put over: Dotty (Dochlaggie Parti Peridot) Black and White Particolour Who produced Jester (Posmo Y So Serious) Chocolate and White Particolour AsAs/bb/CC/DD/EE/KB/Sw-/Tt And now Comet has gone over : Sweetie (Sabalee Glamour Lite Girl) Cream (Particolour?) AyAy/BB?/cchcch/DD/ee/KB/Sp?/Tt And I have just brought in: Ginger (reg. name pending) Blue and Tan atat/BB?/CC/dd/EE/ky/SS/tt NB: now that I have Ginger, I am not going to use Sweetie in my breeding program; her pups will be pet homed but will at least provide information on Comet's dominances...

BB, I am doing a mating next year that should produce a blue and white Parti Pom.... just saying... ;)

LOL!!! It is funny because I am so not a football fan... H&B, black and white are the colours of a football team with the nickname of "The Magpies" - and the football team known as "The Cats" have different colours, I think maybe blue and yellow... BB, what are the Cats' colours? Heh - I am sure to end up with a black and white parti Pom, H&B, if you like we can swap!!!

Ooooh, foot ball reference - NOW I get it!! Sweetie has a tummy!!

Introducing my very first homebred showgirl, now owned by Partipaws Pomeranians - ENRGEEZ Parti Portent: And thanking Jess for the beautiful conditioning and grooming (not to mention, the photos!!)

Folate here, too - and plenty of dietary calcium and protein. One thing I am conscious of is that antibiotics need to be carefully screened if being given to a pregnant bitch - some can cause gastrochiasis in whelps if given during the first trimester.

No expert here - but as an emergency measure try: No feeding from a dish (so that they are hungry and motivated) starting right now Carry a treat pouch/sandwich baggie with food in it around with you Using tiny amounts of food (eg, one small dog biscuit) any time you notice them looking you in the eye, respond with a treat and the words "GOOD dog" Any time you notice them doing a behaviour that you wish to encourage - if they sit, or have all four feet on the ground + and are looking at you - respond with a treat and the words "GOOD dog" Make sure you try this routine LOTS before your fragile visitor arrives Also - have you read the pinned topics at the top of the Puppy Thread page? They are sooooo helpful! And you might find the K9 Pro articles on training positive behaviour very helpful in the long term: http://www.k9pro.com.au/pages/Behavioural.html

Great Post! Your breeder must be very pleased to have a family like yours for their pup - if you ever decide on a Particolour Pomeranian (mine are a little larger than average, btw) do PLEASE drop me a line!

People have an instinctive, emotional response to tiny animals with big eyes - a protective response which is enhanced by the juvenile behaviours the Toy breeds display. I suspect that the attention generated when the little guys are out and about with their owners is gratifying for their egos- not that that is necessarily a bad thing, it is social interaction and it is positive, and it may be really the only interaction some dog owners get with others... Unfortunately, not realising this instinctual behaviour for what it is can lead to some people escalating it beyond the bounds of sensible self-discipline... Tiny dogs are adorable - I am prone to the instant, overly-enthusiastic response myself - but I have deep reservations regarding reducing canines to less than 2.5kg minimum. In actual fact, the Chihuahua standard asks for: Weight up to 2.7 kg (6lbs) with 1.8 - 2.7kg (4 to 6 lbs preferred)*. As opposed to the Pomeranian standard, which asks for: Dogs 1.8-2 kg (4-4.5 lbs) Bitches 2-2.5 kg (4.5-5.5 lbs) *This is because Chis were originally used as a meat animal.... So they are supposed to be much weightier than their size would suggest...

ME!! Particolour Poms 12th March

The Poms you see at the shows are usually at the smaller end of the standard, too - a comment I hear about exhibits quite often is : "oh, yes but she is too small to breed from, I wouldn't risk her" so there are definitely lots of teeny, correct Poms for pet homes.

I am not hugely experienced, and have only raised one litter of four Pomeranians - but can I just say: Using the Puppy Development Calendar, and the Puppy Socialisation Calendar *, to guide the way I raised my pups has made for an interesting improvement on my puppies, as compared to their parents. The parents were riased in a rural area, had exposure to children, cats, lots of other small dogs, and were lead/groom trained. They both are stressed if left on their own in the dog yard, but not if left in the big yard. They both stress if left in a pen/crate on their own in a different room to the one I am in. They both are socially competant with other small dogs, but the male in particular is very reactive to other dogs when out and about. Both dogs are very reactive when visitors enter the yard and house. The male is aggressive if visitors try to pick him up; is aggressive if other handlers try to handle him in the ring; but allows judges to examine him (go figure with that one...) With these characteristics being most unwelcome, I took great pains to remove each puppy from the litter from a week old, for increasing lengths of time. As each got older, I varied the experiences each was exposed to; I took them in the car with me in a baby sling to visit friends at the shopping centre and to pick up the kids from school (no one was allowed to touch the puppies). I introduced each puppy to solo time in a crate from about three weeks of age; each puppy had a Heartbeat Puppy and a treat - dried lambs' ears or suchlike - and I increased the time gradually from ten minutes to four hours over a five week period. Each puppy spent time as a litter, or solo, in the big dog pen with my adult Afghan male. One pup in particular I recognised as having a very reactive temperament, like his sire's. This puppy I did extra sessions with, to increase the opportunities he had for recovering from new experiences and sounds etc. At three weeks (I had to insist their dam wean them at six weeks, she was more than happy to feed them forever) I began keeping the other Poms completely seperate from the puppies for the majority of the day; and I organised the other Poms' day to decrease the chances that they would yap and carry on. I did this to minimise the chances for the Pom breeds' natural tendency to reactive barking to become a habitual response. In spending the majority of time in the company of a calm, non-reactive adult dog; and without hearing other dogs responding to triggers by barking, I have ended up with Poms that are remarkably stable, non-reactive, and almost complacent about other dogs/new environments (NB: There is one female pup that is more inclined to "shouting about it"; she is still here with me and I ascribe this to my slacking off with the routine). I will most certainly be repeating the procedures with my next litter. I have a few aspects I will be fine-tuning, but the puppy I recognised as being most reactive has flown down to Melbourne to his new family at 17 weeks of age - and I am pleased to hear he is quiet and out-going, if a little under-trained in the toileting department. Certainly, my own sister (very non-dog savvy) who is politely un-impressed by the adult Poms' yappiness and hyperactivity, was volubly enthralled with the difference in the puppies' behaviour. She in fact (Master's in Business) keeps outlining a business plan for me, based on the "saleability" of quiet, well-behaved small fluffy dogs... eep! So: I am enormously encouraged by the results of my experiment, and while I will be vigorously avoiding my sister's plans for marketing my puppies, I will most certainly be working with future litters to produce well-balanced, emotionally stable Poms that are demonstrably quieter than the stereotypical Pom of popular perception... ... and with the humblest acknowledgement that I would not have been able to even begin on this path without Steve Coutenay's wonderful writings to guide me. * http://www.k9pro.com.au/pages/Behavioural.html

... I'll bite! Easy keepers in dogs: To me this means health tested and screened before breeding to (hopefully) produce puppies that need very little vet care for disorders or dysfunctions. Essentially, dogs that very few vets have the experience of seeing them in consultation except for initial immunisations and annual health checks. And I guess I include dogs that do not require constant interaction - I like dogs that are content to hang out in my house and yard without needing incessant attention/approval. Oh - and dogs that are efficient converters of food, and do not require tinkering with diet to maintain them. Like that, do you mean?

Hum. See, Daisy did not seem to lose much coat when the pups were still new... they are around four months old now, and two weeks ago she started moulting - and she is still losing hair! Mind you, If I could develop a variety of Pom that shed itself practically bald each summer, then coated up again for the cold season, I would fo for it - just the sort of adaptation that is soooo practical for summer in Australia....

I feel dopey now! I confess to having automatically filtered it through my "dog =/= backyard ornament" goggles. I guess I automatically discounted the comment as Dot emphasising the commitment you need to your dogs if you are going to show? Then again, it does sound as if a rather extended conversation was condensed down to two or three sentences, don't you think?

How nice to see any mention of purebreeds! And a generally positive mention, at that... http://www.canberratimes.com.au/news/local/news/general/we-aint-nothin-but-hound-dogs/2380608.aspx We ain't nothin' but hound dogs BY STEPHANIE ANDERSON 05 Dec, 2011 04:00 AM They say every dog has its day and for the pampered pooches at the All Breeds Championship Show, yesterday was it. Among the 500 dogs and well equipped groomers jostling for position at Exhibition Park were a handful of pomeranians, belonging to dog show veteran Dot Williams. With husband Danny by her side, Mrs Williams has spent the past 28 years travelling throughout Australia to camp at and compete in dog shows. It's a way of life that draws in all sorts from those in pantsuits and pearls to battered jeans and Akubras, with the Harden couple notching up more than 30 shows a year. ''It's a lifestyle,'' Mrs Williams said. ''It is very expensive, you don't make any money out of it ... And once you decide to do it, you've got to be totally committed to it 24 hours a day. You can't just take a day off.'' PHOTOS: Best in show It has been described as a labour of love, with owners dedicating thousands of hours grooming breeds ranging from tiny Chihuahuas to towering deerhounds. Mrs Williams showed three of her 14 Pomeranians throughout the weekend, having previously put in days of work getting dogs like seven-month-old Ruma ready. The pint-sized fluff ball required hours of individual preparation including a 60-minute haircut, repeated baths and blow drying, as well as intensive grooming on the day. ''She's had 20 minutes today, but it should have been much longer,'' she said. Despite the significant effort, the judging has little to do with Ruma's excessive hair. The prizes are instead awarded on an animal's ''construction'', be it a well-shaped head, perfect bite or correctly sized feet. But according to Mrs Williams, even a flawless jaw alignment is not enough to take home a blue rosette. ''A lot of it is political,'' she said. Despite such frustrations, Mrs Williams will return to Canberra this weekend for another round of shows hosted by the ACT Ladies Kennel Club. For further information on the club visit www.actca.asn.au