tdierikx

Run free sweet boy! T.

Yay for Kibah and Pagan... all sounds good at this point! T.

From what I gather about this particular girl, no-one was willing to step up to rescue her until later in the piece. Nina and her contacts ended up taking her in at an advanced stage of pregnancy. Don't forget that some vets simply won't do a late term abortion... and some rescuers aren't fussed on doing it either for whatever reasons they choose. Unless one is the person directly involved in making such decisions for the particular rescue involved, one really needs to pull one's head in instead of kicking the crap out of the gate long after the horse has bolted. The facts here are - the pups are here, mum is content with them so far, and the rescue involved has asked if others could help when the time comes to get these little ones prepared to go to new homes themselves. Nothing more, nothing less. Hey Nina... can we have some new puppy and mum pics please? I think we need a bit of "awwww cute" factor in this thread again... *grin* T.

OH - and my adult dogs are happy to help raise my fosters... good role models, and not averse to disciplining pups just like their mother would... *grin* T.

OK - Nina has said that the pups aren't going anywhere until they are ready - and preferably at 8 weeks of age. My experience with SOME large breed rescue bitches with larger litters is that the bitch MAY start to actively discourage the pups from approaching her at around the 4 week mark. If she is only deterring them but not attacking them, we leave them with her. If she is actively attacking them because she is so over the experience, then we remove the pups from her. We don't separate pups from the litter unless there are other considerations like health involved there - if they go into care, then they ALL go into care together. T.

All that aside, the pups are here now... T.

In rare instances pups may need to be removed from their mother earlier than usual. I had a 4 week old pup come into my care on vet advice - she simply wasn't thriving, and the vet advised taking her and one of her littermates (for company) away from mum to see if we could help her along with some intensive one-on-one care. It worked a charm, and a couple of weeks later she was much stronger and able to go back with the rest of the litter. There have been other instances where the mother dogs have just been bred once too often and they are just not overly inclined to care for their pups after the initial few weeks. In those cases, ALL pups are cared for together, and given plenty of socialisation with good tempered adult "role model" dogs, humans, etc... In a perfect world the recommended method will always work - but unfortunately rescue isn't always perfect... and how we make good what wasn't is what truly matters, yes? T.

IF the pups needed to be separated from their mother at that age... certainly not advocating that they be removed at that age for the fun of it... *sheesh* Why do people have the need to read the very worst possible connotation from posts here on DOL. You'd think that I've been around long enough and have fostered enough pups along the way for MOST people here to know that I'm not so gung ho as to advocate early removal of pups into foster care if it's not absolutely necessary... T.

My ex understood exactly where he stood in the pecking order when it came to him or my heart dog... *grin* I prefer the company of animals myself most of the time. T.

It's not about keeping them with mum, it's about keeping them with their siblings! The pups socialize each other. No one s suggesting you try to force mum to keep feeding them. By all means if she's over it then wean the pups. However the pups need to remain together and can still have visits from mum. It's like you think the only value of mum to these pups is as a milk machine. Seriously if you think removing pups from mum and spitting up the litter at 4 weeks if age is the best thing for them, then your lack of knowledge about raising puppies really does concern me. I've stuck my hand up for however many pups they want to send me... happy to take all 12 of them actually. And for the last time... I am NOT advocating removal of ANY pups from their mother or siblings before they are ready... Jeebus people... please READ other people's posts FULLY before coming to the wrong conclusions... My posts relating to my puppy rearing experience were anecdotal - I'm certainly NOT asking to be sent 4 week old pups! T.

Tiger is very cheeky, but he also does lovely snuggles... actually ALL of them give great smoochies. Tori is such a little sweetie. Toby is the kiss and run boy. Tango is usually the first to be asking for a cuddle. Tiger is mischeif personified. They are doing well here, eating well, and playing up a storm. Harper is competely enamoured with them and has been spending every daylight hour she can kissing them through the pen fence. They think she's great too, calling her back whenever she comes inside to check that I'm still here... *grin* T.

Let me set the record straight... I am NOT advocating shipping off these pups at an early age. If they are fine with their mum until 8 weeks of age, that would be great (and desirable). We've had our share of end stage pregnancy bitches come into care and whelp - and the fact is that some large breed dogs that have large litters can be "over it" by about the 4 week mark... to the point of actively detering the pups from suckling with force. Leaving pups with a bitch that will attack them because she's sick of them chewing on her boobs isn't the best way to socialise them either, right? Only the people who actually have this girl and her babies in care will know what kind of mother she is, and as the pups get older, they are going to have to make the best choices for them to maximise their chances of growing up happy, healthy, and well adjusted canine citizens. Berating them about whether the bitch should have been desexed before whelping is moot really - the pups are here, and now they are looking for help when the pups are old enough to go... that's all. I've still got my hand up for however many of the pups they want to send me... and I've got plenty of pup rearing experience... *grin* T.

When were they wormed? Vaccinated? T.

If the behaviourist's methods aren't working, and Nekh's methods have had some success so far, I'd be inclined to thank the behaviourist for their efforts and going with Nekh's method only for a while to see if Roo keeps improving. Whatever the long term outcome, your patience and dedication is incredible. Roo is the luckiest dog alive to have you as her mummy. T.

Run free and chase all the rabbits you see Tip... Hugs to you and your husband tikira. T.

Whatever the outcome for Roo, you have my complete support Jelly... T.

You know that you are now obliged to put up regular photos of these pups showing us their progress? *grin* How are they all going so far... and how is mum dog coping? T.

If it makes you feel any better, my Lab's name is Trouble... *grin* ... and she was actually expelled from obedience classes when she was around 12 months old... errr! What I did was to start taking her out more, but the minute she started acting up, I took her straight back home again... she quickly worked out that we would stay out longer if she behaved herself. I also would walk a few steps then stop, and make her sit - changing up how far I would go before she had to sit - she also started paying more attention to me when she didn't know what I was going to do next. T.

Yeah - the PM's other half bought her a puppy farm "oodle" pup... no rescue or rehoming program other than the buying price was met... T.

Well said Sheridan... Is it possible that Roo's issues are boredom based rather than actual separation anxiety? Nekh? What are you leaning towards? T.

Rach and the boys have done an awesome job with these little guys - they are really nicely adjusted doglets. As Rach needs to focus on Blacky and Jack right now, I was happy to help her out with the pups. Here are some pics of them in my yard yesterday afternoon... they adjusted to the change of scenery like true little pro's... Toby is wearing purple, Tango in orange, Tori in pink, and Tiger in blue. I think the colours suit them, don't you? T.

Looks like Abbot has an "oodle" dog too... http://www.smh.com.au/national/margie-abbotts-policy-pledge-home-stays-a-politicsfree-zone-20091204-kaxh.html T.

The "Roo & mum" photo sums it all up, doesn't it? T.

Are you male Big D? Rescue desex ALL animals leaving them because so many people out there don't desex their dogs/cats... and we can then guarantee that no animal leaving rescue can be party to making ANY pups/kittens with ANY other dog/cat. T.

Along with beautifully raised puppies. Why thank you kindly mita... we do try our best... *grin* Seriously though, we mostly take in small breed adults - many with special needs when they arrive into our care. We don't always have all of our dogs up on our website, but we do have quite a few that are ready for adoption... all one needs to do is call and ask, and we may just have a dog to fit the new family. T.