tdierikx

Ummm - you usually get the back of my scone if I'm the poor bunny doing the wrangling while someone else takes the photos... some dogs/pups like to get snuggly... *grin* I hate Facebook with a passion! It's full of really crazy people who have some weird idea that I might care what they are doing at every moment of the day... news flash... I don't... lol! If I want to communicate properly with someone I know, I'll pick up the phone... T.

I'll agree with that summation behluka. I've met some of the nicest and inspiring people in rescue - and I've also met some of the nastiest backstabbing bitches/bastards - and some just downright crazy people as well. I tend to try to stay well clear of the latter two groups though... *grin* T.

Awww... aren't they little chubbers? Their eyes will be opening soon... and then it will be fun... mum won't be able to hide from them... lol! You know, the coolest age for pups is about 3.5 to 4 weeks, when they start getting really curious about their surroundings. Don't forget to give them a few toys to beat up around then, and then sit back and watch the fun. Think photo opportunity... *grin* Just out of curiosity, what was their date of birth? T.

Well said behluka... rescue can be a minefield of rumour and accusation without facts... as though some people are looking at the rescue "game" as some sort of competition... I find it depressing at times that more of us don't work WITH each other more often. I'm always happy to help out other rescues when I can... and have been helped by others as well... and that's what it SHOULD be about IMHO - we ARE all looking for the best outcomes for the animals we all have in care, aren't we? T.

Two wrongs don't make a right. You can't break the law to "prove" that someone else is doing so... We have specific groups (RSPCA and AWL) who have all of the correct powers to enter a property and inspect the premises... and they need to be the ones doing it - not crazy zealots with an axe to grind. T.

You better believe she's darned cute! And she has a fan club right here... regardless of her issues and whether or not they can be fixed (fingers crossed they can) T.

Well said Nekh! T.

Run free sweet boy! T.

Yay for Kibah and Pagan... all sounds good at this point! T.

From what I gather about this particular girl, no-one was willing to step up to rescue her until later in the piece. Nina and her contacts ended up taking her in at an advanced stage of pregnancy. Don't forget that some vets simply won't do a late term abortion... and some rescuers aren't fussed on doing it either for whatever reasons they choose. Unless one is the person directly involved in making such decisions for the particular rescue involved, one really needs to pull one's head in instead of kicking the crap out of the gate long after the horse has bolted. The facts here are - the pups are here, mum is content with them so far, and the rescue involved has asked if others could help when the time comes to get these little ones prepared to go to new homes themselves. Nothing more, nothing less. Hey Nina... can we have some new puppy and mum pics please? I think we need a bit of "awwww cute" factor in this thread again... *grin* T.

OH - and my adult dogs are happy to help raise my fosters... good role models, and not averse to disciplining pups just like their mother would... *grin* T.

OK - Nina has said that the pups aren't going anywhere until they are ready - and preferably at 8 weeks of age. My experience with SOME large breed rescue bitches with larger litters is that the bitch MAY start to actively discourage the pups from approaching her at around the 4 week mark. If she is only deterring them but not attacking them, we leave them with her. If she is actively attacking them because she is so over the experience, then we remove the pups from her. We don't separate pups from the litter unless there are other considerations like health involved there - if they go into care, then they ALL go into care together. T.

All that aside, the pups are here now... T.

In rare instances pups may need to be removed from their mother earlier than usual. I had a 4 week old pup come into my care on vet advice - she simply wasn't thriving, and the vet advised taking her and one of her littermates (for company) away from mum to see if we could help her along with some intensive one-on-one care. It worked a charm, and a couple of weeks later she was much stronger and able to go back with the rest of the litter. There have been other instances where the mother dogs have just been bred once too often and they are just not overly inclined to care for their pups after the initial few weeks. In those cases, ALL pups are cared for together, and given plenty of socialisation with good tempered adult "role model" dogs, humans, etc... In a perfect world the recommended method will always work - but unfortunately rescue isn't always perfect... and how we make good what wasn't is what truly matters, yes? T.

IF the pups needed to be separated from their mother at that age... certainly not advocating that they be removed at that age for the fun of it... *sheesh* Why do people have the need to read the very worst possible connotation from posts here on DOL. You'd think that I've been around long enough and have fostered enough pups along the way for MOST people here to know that I'm not so gung ho as to advocate early removal of pups into foster care if it's not absolutely necessary... T.

My ex understood exactly where he stood in the pecking order when it came to him or my heart dog... *grin* I prefer the company of animals myself most of the time. T.

It's not about keeping them with mum, it's about keeping them with their siblings! The pups socialize each other. No one s suggesting you try to force mum to keep feeding them. By all means if she's over it then wean the pups. However the pups need to remain together and can still have visits from mum. It's like you think the only value of mum to these pups is as a milk machine. Seriously if you think removing pups from mum and spitting up the litter at 4 weeks if age is the best thing for them, then your lack of knowledge about raising puppies really does concern me. I've stuck my hand up for however many pups they want to send me... happy to take all 12 of them actually. And for the last time... I am NOT advocating removal of ANY pups from their mother or siblings before they are ready... Jeebus people... please READ other people's posts FULLY before coming to the wrong conclusions... My posts relating to my puppy rearing experience were anecdotal - I'm certainly NOT asking to be sent 4 week old pups! T.

Tiger is very cheeky, but he also does lovely snuggles... actually ALL of them give great smoochies. Tori is such a little sweetie. Toby is the kiss and run boy. Tango is usually the first to be asking for a cuddle. Tiger is mischeif personified. They are doing well here, eating well, and playing up a storm. Harper is competely enamoured with them and has been spending every daylight hour she can kissing them through the pen fence. They think she's great too, calling her back whenever she comes inside to check that I'm still here... *grin* T.

Let me set the record straight... I am NOT advocating shipping off these pups at an early age. If they are fine with their mum until 8 weeks of age, that would be great (and desirable). We've had our share of end stage pregnancy bitches come into care and whelp - and the fact is that some large breed dogs that have large litters can be "over it" by about the 4 week mark... to the point of actively detering the pups from suckling with force. Leaving pups with a bitch that will attack them because she's sick of them chewing on her boobs isn't the best way to socialise them either, right? Only the people who actually have this girl and her babies in care will know what kind of mother she is, and as the pups get older, they are going to have to make the best choices for them to maximise their chances of growing up happy, healthy, and well adjusted canine citizens. Berating them about whether the bitch should have been desexed before whelping is moot really - the pups are here, and now they are looking for help when the pups are old enough to go... that's all. I've still got my hand up for however many of the pups they want to send me... and I've got plenty of pup rearing experience... *grin* T.

When were they wormed? Vaccinated? T.

If the behaviourist's methods aren't working, and Nekh's methods have had some success so far, I'd be inclined to thank the behaviourist for their efforts and going with Nekh's method only for a while to see if Roo keeps improving. Whatever the long term outcome, your patience and dedication is incredible. Roo is the luckiest dog alive to have you as her mummy. T.

Run free and chase all the rabbits you see Tip... Hugs to you and your husband tikira. T.

Whatever the outcome for Roo, you have my complete support Jelly... T.

You know that you are now obliged to put up regular photos of these pups showing us their progress? *grin* How are they all going so far... and how is mum dog coping? T.

If it makes you feel any better, my Lab's name is Trouble... *grin* ... and she was actually expelled from obedience classes when she was around 12 months old... errr! What I did was to start taking her out more, but the minute she started acting up, I took her straight back home again... she quickly worked out that we would stay out longer if she behaved herself. I also would walk a few steps then stop, and make her sit - changing up how far I would go before she had to sit - she also started paying more attention to me when she didn't know what I was going to do next. T.