tdierikx

I would suggest you get a cage crate for him and feed him in there... or a playpen. Essentially he needs to learn that the other dog is not going to take his food, and that he's safe to eat what he's been given. If he doesn't eat what's been offered after 10 minutes, take it away until the next meal time and offer it again. Unlike cats, dogs will NOT starve themselves to death... they WILL eat once they are hungry enough. Sounds tough/mean, but it does work.

T.

2 hours ago, DogsAndTheMob said:

is contrary to the law in NSW, because anyone who finds a dog or cat is required to surrender it to the RSPCA

Actually, stray dogs are to be taken to the pound (or call a ranger to pick up and take), but cats are allowed to roam in NSW by law, so you are supposed to leave them alone.

RSPCA NSW doesn't operate any pounds any more.

The legislation is not very forthcoming on what happens in the scenario you describe about a private person (not affiliated with an approved rescue) taking in stray kittens and then trying to rehome them. Your best bet for answers would be the Office of Local Government, who are responsible for these matters. I would suggest that it would be best to contact rescue groups and offer to be a foster carer for those kittens, then all the legal stuff will be covered when the kittens need to be rehomed.

I have a sneaking suspicion that if you don't microchip them and privately rehome them without overt advertising, then that would be the most obvious course of action. That's pretty much not covered under the current legislation - and incredibly hard to police - so I'm tipping it will be happening a lot.

T.

One thing that confuses me a lot is who has literally thousands of dollars to "impulse" buy a puppy? Commercially bred pups aren't cheap.

Those same people may also say they think that rescue pets (and even some registered purebreds) are "too expensive"... so yet another Catch 22...

In most cases, even backyard bred pups can be more expensive to buy than a rescue pet.

We had LOTS of applications for Lala's pups, and as they will be very large dogs once grown, we were blunt about that fact with every potential adopter. Most of the applications were for the merle/harlequin pups, as if they were somehow "better" than the other coloured pups we had... people want "pretty" more than they want a perfect match... *sigh* We only had one person we knocked back cause a fuss, and to be perfectly honest, by his reaction and tirade of abuse when he wasn't immediately given what he wanted, we were spot on with our summation of his lack of suitability for one of these pups.

Hopefully with the new NSW laws, we may be able to trace what happens to poorly rehomed pets. If we can see trends of poor rehoming and bouncing in and out of the pound/shelter/rescue system, then we can maybe address that issue... we all know it happens with far more regularity than we care to admit. I don't think we'll find the issue coming from the registered purebred sector as much as from the completely unregulated rescue sector... there are still way too many cowboys in rescue trying to quickly rehome animals in their desperate need to "save" more, and that needs to stop. Cowboys give the entire rescue sector a bad name, and perpetuate the myth that rescue pets are somehow "broken" or "less than" pets sourced from other sectors.

Make no bones about it, the rescue sector will end up being regulated... it's just a matter of when and how that is implemented.

T.

The unspoken fact of the matter is that government has effectively outsourced their responsibility for unwanted/stray animals to a completely unfunded system of private rescues. They are reluctant to change this model, as they refuse to spend the money required to do something constructive about the issue when they know that big hearted volunteers will do it for them. The only way to change this is for rescues to basically stop all operations until government steps up and deals with the issue... but that's not going to happen because no-one wants to see euthanasia rates soar due to space constraints in the few pounds we do have operating nowadays. The government are banking on rescues continuing to do this work for free... so we are caught in a terrible Catch 22 situation if we want the current system to change in any significant way.

RSPCA have decided to scale back their shelter business section (in NSW), and to focus more on their inspectorate activities... meanwhile, government refuses to be locked into any significant funding for that part of their business - and until the inspectorate does their job properly and fairly, I wouldn't suggest giving them any more funding either. The NSW government has finally put in some measures to make the inspectorate more accountable for the funds they do receive, but those could still go further, like maybe some KPI's that can be used to measure value for money spent... don't you think?

T.

You may be right about necropsies @Mairead- I've only ever been offered it on one animal in all my years of pet ownership and working in the animal industry. I know that zoos will more often get them done on animals that have passed with little to no warning, so they can rule out issues that may affect other animals in their care, but never have I been offered one after a domestic pet has passed with little to no warning.

The one animal that a necropsy was offered for was a goat kid that belonged to my work. The vet was happy to do it gratis, as he wanted to know what had happened also. The results showed an issue that could have become prevalent in our herd, and by making a few simple adjustments to diet and age of castration of the males, we never had another incident of the same nature (urinary calculi causing obstruction). Without that necropsy, we may well have seen many more cases of that problem, and deaths associated with same.

The interesting thing to note is that necropsies actually don't cost all that much, and can be an amazing resource for future diagnosis/treatment of certain issues that may not necessarily present as expected during a consult, or even after most regular testing regimes. Just think of it as exploratory surgery without the need for anaesthetic (which is the biggest factor in any surgery cost really).

T.

I'd be looking for a structural problem... I don't think the diarrhoea is his main problem here, and it may only be coincidental to the actual problem.

If his bloods are all normal, and they've ruled out GI/internal type issues, then what remains is structural... his bones. I'd be looking for full spinal xrays to see if he's slipped a disc or similar at some point. Neck, Thoracic, and Lumbar xrays at the very least. My guess would be neck based on your description of the symptoms, but only an xray is going to confirm or rule that out.

T.

Reinventing the wheel here... as there was a similar inquiry in NSW in 2023 -  https://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/committees/inquiries/Pages/inquiry-details.aspx?pk=2964

A myriad of findings and recommendations were made in that inquiry... no real action has been taken as yet though.

WARNING: if you read through the submissions to the above inquiry, please note that some are quite distressing.

The problems are many, ranging from inadequate education given to vet science students as budgets are tightened at universities, vets preferring to stay in urban areas and dealing primarily with desexing and dentals on dogs and cats, massive HECS debts necessitating staying in urban areas to sustain repayment of those debts, lack of mentorship for livestock veterinary practices, etc... then all of the emotional and business related issues that arise in the profession... it's a minefield really. Even the government hasn't got enough in-house vets allocated to biosecurity issues/monitoring, instead relying on reporting from already overstretched regional and rural private vet clinics.

T.

When Harper pulled up very crook, her symptoms looked like either a kidney issue or an obstruction... hunching and drinking water excessively were the main symptoms.

At the very least, a blood test would rule in or out the kidneys being the problem... but they actually showed a completely different issue, in that her red blood cell count was virtually non-existent - meaning a very significant internal bleed was happening. I'm thankful that the clinic had an ultrasound machine which I convinced the vet we could at least use to have a look at what was going on straight away rather than waiting for a specialist appointment to do the scan. We found the cause pretty quickly, and Harper was given her wings as a result - essentially her spleen had exploded due to a haemangiosarcoma, and there was no coming back from that, so euthanasia was the kindest thing for her.

Now, if I had taken her to an emergency clinic (that are all run by corporates here), I would have been told that she needed a blood transfusion and possibly major surgery... with no guarantees that any of it would resolve the issue. Sometimes doing all we can isn't really the  best option, as it may buy some more time for us to process what's happening, but at what cost to our beloved furry friend?

Harper passed quietly and peacefully in my arms, surrounded by an awesome vet clinic team who comforted both of us through the process... which I will always be grateful for.

Interestingly, I paid around $500 for Harper's final vet visit. We had a full blood test and an ultrasound, euthanasia and disposal of the remains (sorry for the blunt terminology here). We took up a good hour and a half of the clinic staff's time, which I'm pretty sure wasn't charged for. I was expecting a bill around $1800 for all that we'd done that afternoon. Possibly as I am a vet nurse and assisted at every stage of the testing and end result, I may have been credited for that, but still, the final bill was basically what it had cost in consumables to get that diagnosis and final "treatment".

Conversely, when Pickles definitely had managed to get an obstruction and was vomiting up blood (she had Pica, so no doubt about the obstruction), we ended up at one of the local corporate run emergency clinics, where I ended up having to argue with the vet that Pickles needed to be given her wings rather than a raft of treatment options that weren't going to fix the problem at hand. Again, as a vet nurse, I have more knowledge about some things than the average Joe. I eventually convinced them that we were going to give Pickles her wings which was done. The final bill was around $650 just for the consult, euthanasia and disposal, as no treatment options were applied. Oh, and the next morning, I got a text and an email asking me how Pickles was doing after her visit to the emergency clinic... someone had forgotten to mark her deceased in their system... grrr! I had to call them and tell them to update their records to mark her as deceased, and I didn't even get a hint of an apology about the error.

When Zeddy decided it was her time around midnight on a Sunday night, I took her to a different emergency clinic (also corporate run), where we gave her her wings with no fuss, and they must have applied some sort of discount, as the final bill was only $350ish - and I know that the consult fee for midnight on Sunday was at least $270 (was quoted when I rang to tell them I was bringing her in). All I can think of that may have reduced the fee in that case was that after I'd said goodbye to Zeddy and was waiting for them to make up the bill, I was talking with a young couple with a very sick cat who were not sure whether they should leave their cat in hospital overnight or take her home and wait for their regular clinic to open... the best place for the obviously very unwell cat was in the hospital, and I convinced them of that fact. They finally noticed that I'd gone in with my own pet, and was now sitting there holding only a collar and lead, and realised that I'd just lost my own pet, but still was concerned enough about their pet to talk with them. When the receptionist gave me the bill for Zeddy, I looked at her quizzically, and she just smiled and nodded at me, and looked over at the couple who were handing their cat to the vet for hospitalisation... I said thank you and paid with no further hesitation. Strangely enough, when I called my regular vet to advise of Zeddy's passing, they said they would have had to charge me $10 more for the procedure than I'd paid at the emergency clinic.

3 different clinics, 3 different approaches and final bills... 2 of those clinics will get return visits by me when I need a vet for any particular issue. I have no qualms about paying a fair price for services received, but what I also expect is professionalism and compassion during such a stressful event, which I don't feel I got at the other clinic with Pickles.

T.

Most vet clinic customers want gold star service for little to no cost... which unfortunately isn't actually how things work. If you have a sick pet, and the exact cause isn't immediately obvious, then certain tests will at the very least open up other avenues for diagnosing/treating said pet.

I'm definitely no fan of the corporate model of dealing with animal health services, but also understand that any diagnostics/treatments are going to have a cost attached that may not be blatantly obvious to the general public. There are a lot of "hidden" costs that go into providing what is seen/done in a consult, so when someone says a vet "only" did xyz, you can guarantee that abc costs have also been incurred behind the scenes to provide for that xyz consult.

Everything in life and business has increased in cost over the past 5-10 years, so why are we expecting veterinary services to be less affected by those increased costs than any other business?

T.

I have a 10 week old great dane cross pup... I was fostering the whole litter of 9 pups for rescue, and have adopted this pup myself. Most of the pups and mum dog have now been adopted, and a couple are with other foster carers, as the sheer volume of work involved looking after 9 large breed pups was better shared than leaving one person to do it all. From 8 weeks of age, my pup has had full access to both the house and yard at all times - and guess what, she's not perfect at toilet training either... lol!

I leave my back door open at all times so that my pup can go outside when the urge comes over her, which has worked for doing poops, but she still occasionally wees inside. especially at night if I don't leave lights on leading to the back door. Last night seems to have gone well with no messes at all inside... yay! We've also been in heatwave conditions for a number of days during the past couple of weeks, which means that I've had to be vigilant at taking my pup outside to toilet at regular intervals and waiting for her to do anything at all (wee or poop), and then praise before going back inside to the air-conditioning... not fun being out in 38-40 degree heat waiting for a pup to toilet, but it has to be done.

We get visits from the 6 year old up the road to acclimatise my pup with how children can get excited, squeal and run, and my pup has learned to adjust her play style to gentle when playing with the child who is almost the same size as she is. It would be so easy for her to monster a small child, but she's learned that she gets way more cuddles and interaction if she's gentle. We've had this 6 year child old visit with all the pups from only a few days old, so they all have a good grounding on how to play with small people.

I've also been doing regular short obedience training sessions with my pup, and she now knows that to get attention from people, she has to sit nicely and wait for pats or treats. She has been trained to take treats gently too, so if the treater is a child, they get to keep all their fingers intact... lol!

It sounds like you are doing all the right things with your pup, so now patience is the key until he finally works it all out, OK? It WILL happen... have confidence in that.

T.

He is still only a baby really. Just think back to toilet training your children... how long did that take?

You may benefit from purchasing a playpen that he can be placed in when he can't be supervised fully, or when you need to separate him from you or the kids when he gets over-excited and starts acting up. He needs to learn to be alone sometimes, but that you are always going to return and let him join in when he's behaving appropriately.

T.

Did the breeder offer to take the pup back and give a full refund on return? Have you got veterinary reports stating that said pup is deaf, or is her condition based only on your own observations?

I would look into getting a BAER test done on the pup to find out the true extent of her hearing/deafness. It is not a very expensive test, and will unequivocally prove deafness or not. Without definitive proof of the fault in the pup, you will find it difficult to proceed with any claim against the breeder.

T.

Covering the crate also makes it more cosy and den-like for them... and they can settle faster.

T.

Quote

Animal Justice Party Emma Hurst says stronger regulations are still needed.

"We need to look at space requirements for animals, we need to make sure we're looking at the psychological and emotional care of animals as well," she said.

This from someone who fought hard to have pets allowed by default in rentals and strata situations... does she now want to say that people in apartments shouldn't have pets because space is limited?

At least AWL actually visited the apartment and spoke with the owners about the situation, and will most likely follow up in a few weeks to make sure that they are still doing the right thing. According to sources, RSPCA declined to act, giving the excuse that the dog had food, water, and shelter... how would they know that any of those were sufficient if they didn't attend? Seriously, I've personally seen RSPCA act on much less serious breaches of animal welfare than this dog's situation.

T.

My question is why is an 11 year old pug outside at 3:30am? Why are both pugs outside at 3:30am for that matter?

No excuse for them being stolen, but concerning nonetheless.

T.

I fostered a Lab/GR cross that had to have TPLO. I confined him to a large puppy pen while he recovered. He was such a good boy and coped pretty well with the confinement.

During his recovery, I also took on a mum dog with her pups, and he wasn't too worried that she was free and he wasn't. She'd come and give him kisses, and even brought her pups to visit with him too.

The hardest part was supporting a 31kg dog's back end going out for potty breaks... I have a few back steps we had to negotiate that was hard work until he was allowed to slowly walk up and down them himself. I definitely recommend getting a proper sling for that job.

T.

The laws are only coming into full effect on Dec 1. They were updated in November 2024, and all relevant breeder organisations were fully aware of it back then... why the panic now?

T.

11 hours ago, asal said:

According to the rumour mill Victoria is introducing annual registration fees at double the previous amount.

Only the portion that goes to the State government is increasing... from 4.64 to 9.00. Actual registration fees charged by individual councils should not double because f the increase. Considering that some Victorian councils are already charging in excess of $80 per year per dog at the discounted (read desexed) rate, and anyone owning more than 2 dogs must also pay an excess animals permit fee of anywhere up to $130 annually, any council raising registration costs by more than $4.50 is taking the p!ss...

@DonnaMarieefrom your posts here, you have at least 3 of your own dogs, and also foster for rescue... that must be pricey, as you'd have registration at normal rates for your own 3-4, plus an excess animals permit fee, AND a foster carer permit fee and registrations (usually around $8) for any fosters in care. That is if you live in Victoria as your profile here indicates.

T.

I don't know about where you are LG, but in Sydney, nearly all of the emergency vet clinics are now owned by one corporate or another... purely profit driven, so any excuse for a markup is applied... *sigh*

That said, when Zeddy decided that midnight on a Sunday was her time, I took her to ARH in Homebush and actually ended up paying a few dollars LESS than my local vet would have charged during business hours. Maybe because I was not hysterical or mumbling about cost, and after leaving the consult room with only a collar and lead, I chatted with some people with a cat with some scary neurological issues and convinced them that it would be best for them to leave her in the clinic overnight... maybe any one or more of those factors came into play when my bill was tallied up?

Far different story with Pickles at VSOS in Miranda... the concerted effort to upsell when clearly she wasn't going to get better was atrocious, and they charged more than double what ARH had charged for Zeddy when they finally realised I wasn't going to capitulate to futile and expensive experiments on my clearly very poorly dog, then the next day I got an email AND a text asking me how Pickles was going after her visit... someone clearly forgot to mark her as deceased on their system... grrr! No apology when I called and informed them either.

T.

Different clinic setups will have different running costs. A clinic with all the latest diagnostic equipment and multiple vets and nurses will have much higher upkeep costs than a smaller one man clinic with only an xray machine, a basic blood testing machine, and only one or two nurses. Something as basic as rent in whatever area the clinic is situated in can make a difference in what prices must be charged to cover the outlay also.

I do support making it known if a clinic is part of a big chain company though, as those clinics are generally much more profit driven than a smaller one man operation.

I don't think that the problem is actually so much about the costs of treating our pet... it's that expectations from owners can sometimes be unrealistic if wanting gold class service/treatment options for bargain basement prices (which may be all they can afford).

For anyone who may still be confused about the realities of working in the veterinary industry, I suggest you read some of the submissions made to the 2023 NSW Inquiry into the veterinary workforce shortage... https://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/committees/inquiries/Pages/inquiry-details.aspx?pk=2964#tab-submissions

WARNING: Some of the submissions in the link above may be confronting and distressing to read.

T.

19 hours ago, _PL_ said:

Of course, if it becomes regulation, I'll simply have to sort TAFE to get my Certs somehow. 
No problem with complying except that distance and practical placements and fees (nearly $5000 even online, no idea where that will come from) aren't currently realistic for me. More training, funding and infrastructure will be needed before a blanket formal education requirement is enacted.

If you are not formally employed and receive any sort of government pension, the courses through TAFE are free or have a very small nominal fee under Smart & Skilled. Many courses are also free if you are over a certain age. The only course I paid full fees for was my Vet Nursing course, as I was employed at the time I did it, but I also got RPL (Recognition of Prior Learning) for a few subjects that I'd already completed when I did my other quals. For my Cert III Animal Care, I got RPL for all but 2 units, and it was free due to my age regardless. Not all campuses set a prerequisite for a practical placement either - Bankstown TAFE had no placement prerequisites for the Cert II or Cert III Animal Care courses when I did them.

I would hope that any proposed legislation aimed to regulate the rescue industry would have some sort of grandfathering to accredit rescues with a long term proven track record of successful rehoming without the need for demanding completion of courses. I would expect new entrants into the industry to have some sort of animal care qualification however. Regardless if they decide to include formal quals as a prerequisite to start up a rescue or not, I would expect that regulatory legislation to focus on setting certain standards of care and the keeping of appropriate records confirming same. All rescues should be held accountable somehow, so I would also push for all rescues to be on the OLG approved rehoming organisations list (in NSW), and report their outcomes annually - none of this optional joining, it should be mandatory, and it should also be auditable.

Did you know that rescues taking in pregnant or recently whelped dogs and pups are not subject to any of the regulatory codes of practice for breeding/whelping/raising that breeders are? Also not held to any codes of practice for boarding, which is essentially what foster carers and shelters/kennels are actually doing. When I have mums and bubs in my care, I meticulously follow the breeders code of practice and keep all appropriate records listed... many other rescues/carers don't. I have weight/growth charts, parasite control records, milestone logs, etc. Yes, it's a lot of fiddly paperwork, but I can prove that the tiny souls in my care are getting every opportunity to grow and thrive and become great canine citizens to be rehomed to their own forever families in due course. They are no less worthy of those standards than pedigreed pups are they?

Have no doubt, the rescue industry will be subject to regulation of some sort at some point in the not too distant future... especially as the voices are getting louder to provide rescues with government funding. Funding comes with accountability, and that means legislation/regulation that sets the standards for that accountability.

T.

I hear you there @_PL_, and I fully back and respect your years of experience as giving you a very wide knowledge base that you utilise to provide the very best care for each and every one of the precious souls you take in. I wish that were also true for so many others in our industry... *sigh*

I also see the rise of so many newer rescues that are caught up in the "must save them all" hype. Big hearts alone are not enough... definitely required for the "job", but not the only prerequisite... the head must also come into play to get it right, yes?

Personally, I have formal qualifications that give me a greater medical understanding of animal health, but that definitely does not give me permission (legally) to medicate or otherwise treat any condition that is not minor. If I suspect that an animal in my care requires medication or other professionally prescribed treatments, my medical background simply allows me to have a much deeper conversation with a vet about any condition an animal in my care has.

When it comes to behavioural rehabilitation, I know my limits in that field, and make sure that animals in my care are either seen by a professionally qualified trainer, or moved to another foster home where the carer has much more experience and a proven track record in rectifying any behaviours I cannot address in my own capacity.

Paper qualifications alone aren't the be all and end all to what is required to do the very best for the animals in our care, but surely some basic understanding about animal health and welfare is better than none? Knowledge gained from many years of experience should definitely be in play too, as learning shouldn't stop once you gain a certificate.

Like yourself, I've been involved in rescue for many years, and have many more formal qualifications than most, but I'm still learning something new at regular intervals... constant updating of our own knowledge is paramount, yes? I think where we both are concerned, we had exceptional mentors when we first started out in rescue, didn't we?

T.

Quote

some trainers still rely on force-based or fear-based techniques which can lead to anxiety, aggression and long-term behavioural problems

Shameless promotion of the notion that the only way to train a dog is by positive reward only methods. Not surprised that the above came from RSPCA head vet.

There actually have been some changes to legislation relating to dog walking - one person cannot be in charge of more than 4 dogs in NSW, and must be over the age of 16. Unfortunately this isn't necessarily being policed, as one can still find the "dog walking services" that load up their vans with more than 4 dogs, drives them to the nearest off-lead park, and lets them loose for an hour of mayhem without any proper supervision.

Personally, I'd like to see minimum formally recognised animal related qualifications (such as a Cert II in Animal Care and Management) as a requisite for working with animals of any description. Most reputable places of business do actually ask for such qualifications when hiring staff to look after pets, which is good to see.

Would anyone be surprised to know that of the list of qualifications required to be an RSPCA Inspector, formal animal related qualifications don't make the list?

Dog groomers should be added to the list of professions that require some sort of formal animal related qualifications too.

And don't get me started on the pet rescue industry... in all honesty, if you are going to be taking in animals with any number of issues that require rehabilitation before rehoming, surely some sort of animal related qualifications should be in play there?

T.

A couple of years ago (2023) Victoria held a "pet census" which was purported to be an exercise in just finding out what types of pets people had and what services they used in relation to them. The census was voluntary, and received around 30,000 responses in total... out of a state population of approximately 6.5 million (approximately 2.5 million households). The data produced/extrapolated only came from a small slice of that 30,000, coming from only around 5,000 responses that had been received as part of a targetted focus group and verified as "real" responses to the questions. Various levels of government swore blind that the pet census was designed to only get a better idea about the numbers and types of pets owned in the state, and what services were used in relation to them.

Interestingly, there were some very stupid questions posed in said census, such as how many times an owner walked or had their pet fish groomed... so one could be forgiven for calling the data produced not exactly accurate or even valid.

Fast forward to this year, and many Victorian councils are reviewing their domestic animal management plans (DAMPs) and what do we see starting to factor into the process... pet census data being used to further restrict pet numbers/types per household, doorknocking to check pet registrations, and other restrictive practices designed to make pet ownership harder. Very few have used the data to try to provide more services for pets that may be housed in those LGAs.

Food for thought...

T.

Queensland has some of the stupidest dog legislation in the country. Basically any tan or solidly built bull-breed mix can be "identified" by a council ranger as a "pitbull" and declared "dangerous" or "restricted", regardless if it has displayed any adverse behaviours or not. Moreton Bay Council is also one of the least dog-friendly councils in the country, so shouldn't be held in any level of comparison to elsewhere in Australia.

It beggars belief that Moreton Bay council has registered 269 dogs as "dangerous" or "menacing". I'll bet that most of those have never had an incident recorded against them, but have been "identified" by council as restricted/banned breeds/mixes based only on physical appearance. 

Interestingly, the number of reported dog attacks in the Moreton Bay LGA has risen sharply since council started restricting where and when dogs could be away from their own properties, and running around "identifying" all manner of perfectly sociable dogs as "dangerous" based on colour/build alone. Is it any wonder that dogs are becoming less sociable when the restrictions imposed have reduced the opportunities for dogs to be out and about learning how to be social in the community?

Quite frankly, articles like this only highlight that legislation isn't working to reduce issues, but in reality, it may actually be making the problems worse. What is actually required is a concerted effort to effectively educate pet owners about their responsibilities, and giving dogs more ways to learn and build their social skills in the community. Unfortunately, education that isn't simply whacking some words onto a buried council webpage that residents can't easily find just won't cut it. What is required is actual targetted face to face information sessions, and/or printed material letterbox drops to keep residents informed of their pet ownership responsibilities, and support for training and socialisation of dogs in order for them to safely be able to be part of the community. Unfortunately, it costs more money to do the right and required thing than it does to simply enact more restrictive legislation... *sigh*

T.