Tassie

Per my vet (not a chain. .. old school .) they like to have prior authorisation for fluids on older dogs, or dogs with health issues which may compromise them, so that they have a canula in already, and can get fluids in more quickly if needed to support BP. Makes sense to me.

Not sure whether Mini Schnauzers have any particular issues with anaesthetics .. if so (as older dogs do, and some Border Collies e.g. do with some kinds of anaesthetics) then IV fluids can be a good precaution. Even if blood tests are not necessary for younger animals, it can be useful, at a relatively low cost, to have a baseline for comparison later on. I probably wouldn't be particularly happy with a clinic which pushed them hard for a younger, fit animal ,... but would also not be happy with a clinic that did not strongly recommend for older (as in 8+) animal.

Good for you for deciding not to use a choker .. and especially not on a puppy. Can I suggest you send a PM to @The Spotted Devill .... our resident ESS expert. In the short term, you could try some food following, where you hold treats in your hand at or slightly above puppy's nose level and mark and deliver a treat for several steps of loose lead walking. You would start this in a relatively quiet area .. and do lots of repetitions and then let the pup have a break. At this stage, training the loose leash walking is more important than actually walking the dog. TIme spent now will mean more enjoyable 'proper' walks later. Giving the dog permission to go sniff for a while can also be a powerful reward. Then switch back to asking for attention (with treats and frequent rewards.)

Yep! I was out on busy streets this morning with my little BC girl .. well, not so little .. 5 months tomorrow, and 11.4 kg. We were doing our busy noisy streets walk on our own that we do after my agility boy has done his half hour hydrotherapy. Lots of noises, and a big hose praying on where the roadworks were happening .. and lots of people. So we're working on impulse control .. not everyone needs to meet a little Border Collie! Although talk about variable reinforcement schedule .. quite a few people do, and race in to say hi before I have a chance to ask for a sit. Still she is improving .. gradually. And I was pleased with how she was able to settle when I stopped to chat with people a few times. So the collar grab thing is just with the dog in random and no particular positions ... worked up to with gradually from gentle to grab. It's designed to desensitise the dog to people grabbing for the collar .. and to be happy with collar restraint when that is necessary for any reason, including as part of a game like the round robin recall, or for amping up the dog and building up explosive drive before an exercise. Sounds like your boy is becoming pretty dog savvy .. that will stand him in really good stead, and maybe even he'll want to be a junior dog handler in some sort of dog sports..

The idea of the game is part of a whole series of games of building great value for the handler, partly by food and toy rewards, but also by the fun and excitement of things like finding the hidden face, or chasing the handler - so things that dogs love to do, but best played only by older young people, or adults. You could use it yourself to improve her call off the little kids, but it wouldn't be appropriate for youngsters to play, IMO. The younger kids could join in 'round robin' recall games outside once the adults have trained the puppy to play the game .. I'd have puppy on a trailing leash. So each person has treats, one person restrains puppy by the collar (assuming puppy is happy with collar holds/grab - trained separately .. paired with treats.) another person calls the puppy .. when puppy is literally straining, holder gives the release word and lets puppy rae over to the person who called .. puppy is excitedly praised and given treats, then collar grab restraint, someone else calls ........ and so on. This is a great game for proofing the release cue (also used for things like going to food bowl, coming out of xpen. crate, door, car etc. etc..) The face licking is a "thing" - most Border Collies love to see and get to faces. I guess it comes from baby puppyhood, where puppies will use it to get the dam's attention, and also as a little bit of an appeasement gesture with other adult dogs. It's going to be hard to stop when your daughter's responses are mixed .. there's not a consistent response to the behaviour, so pup has no idea if it's OK or not. Without actually seeing the situation, I think it's really a management issue

7 years since I did the trip. with 2 BCs. I checked ahead with the motels to ensure that they were OK with dogs in car outside rooms. On the way over I stayed at Ceduna (easternmost motel, Madura Pass, Kalgoorlie, and on the way back, Norseman, Eucla and a dog friendly house in Kimba .. not sure if that one is still available. This was my go to information source then. Definitely stay off the road in non daylight hours, and in fog. There was thick fog coming west oiut of Ceduna .. I was lucky to have a huge truck in front of me, so I hung back (well back) behind him so he could hit the roos first. (Truckies advise stay well back, cos they can spit the wildlife out under the truck and into the path of vehicles that are following too close. And if you see one emu, be careful .. there will probably be another.) The roadhouses are comfortably placed for stops every couple of hours or so .. just make sure to keep the dogs on lead, particularly in WA because of 1080 baits, which can be dropped by birds. Enjoy!

Yep - definitely upgrade the value of the treat. I love to use soft treats which I can cut into cubes, and then can break up so that with one small (say 1cm) treat, I can actually deliver 4 machine gun rewards. 1 cm or 0.25cm .. goes down just as fast, but pup thinks .. wow .. I got 4 treats for that. Verbal excitement from me goes with it. As a general rule of thumb ... the higher the distraction/level of difficulty, the higher the value of the reinforcement needed, and the higher rate of reinforcement. And if a normally foody pup can't take treats, that's a sign that pup is over the top, and we need to remove them from the situation to where they can respond. (That goes for fear, excitement, and anything else that is frying the dog's brain .

Trouble maker she may be (at times) but she's a cutie pie. And reading your post .. I think you've hit on something important by using the word overwhelmed .. that is likely what's happening .. so probably increase the rate of reinforcement for any attention to (or back to) you, when you see she's in that sort of area.

Definitely do not be pressured by this vet. You need a second opinion .. I would recommend seeing a specialist orthopaedic vet .. there are several in Melbourne. I would think if yo contacted the German Shepherd Club as Thistle suggests, you would get some recommendations. If your breeder was an ethical breeder registered with Dogs Victoria, they should be able to assist you with information -- hip score sheets for the parents, and recommendations as to orthopaedic specialists. It would be worth doing an online search for information .. on a quick search, I found some good information, which among other things, suggested the sort of test the vet seems to have done would normally be done under sedation. In the meantime, try to keep the pup a good lean weight, and limit the made hooning round activity .. good luck with that .

Love the nosework idea! Excellent. I was thinking of you this morning when I was doing the urban solo walk with my pup in a busy area. She was a bit off the show for the first few minutes .. needed a lot of help in making good choices, but settled much more quickly than last week, and was able to manage crossing a busy traffic light controlled intersection, crossing a couple of other busy streets, meeting some people coming out of their house, and walking nicely as I walked along the footpath with them, coping with a bus pulling up alongside us on a very narrow footpath, and seeing people get off and being patient and polite while I talked with a man who'd stopped to have a pat, adf then we were chatting about BCs, as you do. The whole thing took so much less effort and reminder than in previous weeks. Happy trainer here.

I'd be definitely teaching the kids about time out and standing still when everyone goes OTT. ... the ones at school will get that. As far as the evening feral time goes .. I would seriously be putting the pup up in crate or xpen, with a nice bone or stuffed kong. Based on the state my 19 week old gets in, and having taught school for many years .. there comes a point where they're totally incapable of listening effectively, or acting on what they hear. That's definitely separation time before someone gets hurt.

Definite yes for crate training ... Think of it as teaching your puppy to LOVE their den ... so the very best treats happen in the crate, the meals happen in the crate .... and I suggest that you do some online searching for tips ... like everything else, start small and work up. My 19 week old Border Collie loves her crate - travels in one in the car, sleeps in one beside my bed, has meals in one, and after meal naps. I was just talking with a vet nurse today about how much crate training is worth doing .. it makes the vet staff's job so much easier, and means so much less stress, and therefore likely better healing for pets that have to stay in hospital even for a few hours. Same at a groomers.

Very exciting ... can understand how you got carried away with the food. I would definitely get the breeder to tell you what the pup has been eating, and use that for the first week or so, changing only gradually to what you're planning to use if it's different. Depending how old the puppy is, I would think you'd need to breakup the Eukanuba, and when you start feeding it, I'd be inclined to moisten it to make it easier for the pup, then see how you go. I wouldn't mix it with wet food .. that would upset the balance .. just soften with water.

Sounds like things are going pretty well on the whole. Well done. So, I think she'll probably continue to check in with you instead of just doing what your daughter is asking. Don't forget she will be observing interactions in the household, and she will have understood who has leadership roles. It's still great for both of them for your daughter to be involved in training, and as she gets older and more confident (your daughter) she will enjoy doing more of the training. You might like to look online for age appropriate (human and pup) tricks that your daughter could teach pup (with your guidance) .. that could be their special training. The curling up in a ball is a good plan -- although it's worth knowing that it's actually used in one of the online programs as part of a game for improving recalls.... dog is meant to be looking for the face .. and yes, you're right about the effect of the intermittent rewards of your daughter's giggles. Are the kids - yours and cousins - old enough to know the concept of a timeout (as in sport ) .. where all the action and noise stops, and time is taken to let everyone -particularly the puppy - settle down? I think it would be worth teaching that to the kids and their visitors .. so if things get a bit OTT, then someone can call time out .. and everyone can stop. If necessary puppy could be removed if she's really gone OTT>

I hear you! My 19 week old BC is a very social girl, and thinks the whole world needs to meet her .. yep .. working on impulse control, with a very high rate of reinforcement, combined with lots of praise for making a good decision. As well as being a baby, she's a busy little/not so little girl - things to do, places to be all at warp speed ... but we're making progress. And just in case you think that this teaching will last for life .. my 8.5 year old agility/high level obedience/rally O boy is tending to forget that he actually does know how to do loose leash walking, so he's having reminder training as well. As far as the darting off again goes, it's worth delivering not just one treat, but a series in pretty quick succession, then verbal release, rinse and repeat. (treats only need to be small .. if they're soft, you can make one into 4). So each treat gets delivered just before she's about to leave .. you'll find it won't take too long before she's at least hesitating, so you can lengthen out the gaps between the treats .. judgement call. IMO, it's pretty important to mark the behaviour you're rewarding .. my marker is excited "Yes" and my release is "OK" - so the marker is the bridge to reinforcement, whether that's a treat, or a permission to go sniff/explore.

Or you can have the best of both worlds..... I have always had cats as well .. currently a Norwegian Forest Cat, who actually believes she's a dog, I think, and has invented some games to play with the new pup. ..

All of those are still good. Kongs come in different sizes. And there are some good food puzzle toys around now too .. although I believe smart dogs can figure them out very quickly. I avoid rope toys for youngsters .. or any for that matter .. a bit hard on teeth for babies. If you don't plan to play tug , but still want to give the pup that sort of fun interaction, you could look at using a flirt pole. Here's an example

I'm laughing at the bacon grease thing .. but you know what, just lying on the floor will get you smothered in pups .. even if it's only one pup ... or kneeling down, leaning over and hiding your face under your arms . Seriously .. love your plan. My first dog as an adult was a bitch, and I still love them ... although they can be quite determined to get their own way. I've had one of each once I graduated to two dogs.

Yes! And speaking slowly and calmly, so that your tone doesn't get him excited. He's lovely, and is doing really well .. but if he were mine, I'd definitely be looking at getting him a larger, more sturdy x pen, so that he can have room to move around as he learns to be alone for longer periods. That will give more room for things like toys, a stuffed Kong, a food puzzle toy, a snuffle mat ... that sort of thing. Have to say I'm not a huge fan of dog day care, unless it's fairly carefully structured and managed by people who know what they're doing. Apart from a risk of injury through over exuberant play, too much free association especially doing zoomies, can hype a dog, especially a BC, up way too much .. which would go against the work you're doing with place/chill/calm.

Timing is critical here. Obviously only when you're home with her. So I'd suggest getting into a habit of taking puppy outside (on a light lead) at the times when she's almost certainly going to want to pee. So straight after she wakes up from a nap, straight after a spell of playing, soon after a meal. Then you take her outside, (coats for humans and puppy are good), and wait. If it's not raining, it wouldn't hurt to take some of the material from her potty tray to an area where you'd like her to toilet .. that should encourage her. If she toilets successfully, make a fuss of her, and then take her back inside. If you've waited about 10 minutes, with no result, then you can go back inside, but watch her, and take her out again in 10 minutes or so. I know she's little, but she is still a dog, and there are some things she'll need to be able to do ... like toileting on lead when you're out on walks, or in strange places Ideally she should learn to toilet on a variety of surfaces outside .. grass, bitumen, concrete. (I'm still working on the bitumen and concrete thing with my 18 week old pup who prefers natural surfaces like grass, wood chips, bush .... I should have started her earlier on the hard surfaces .

Sounds like good progress on the toilet training. As far as the crying goes, it's really good if you can give her something in her playpen (and only in her playpen) which will keep her mind occupied. So have a look at a snuffle mat Snuffle Mat, and/or a puzzle toy. There are some examples here. Stuffed Kongs are always a good option ..plenty of 'recipes' for what to put in them.

Good on you for dodging the two puppies at the same time! I'm definitely in the 2 dogs camp .. that's my council limit, and to be honest, I think it's my limit in terms of time and attention I can give to them, although that's probably because of their "careers". Definitely in the crate/baby gate/larger xpen school of thought. They love their special places, and it makes management so easy, and they're more inclined to get used to spending time just chilling. As they get older and more settled, the xpen isn't so necessary, although my 8+ year old BC still chooses to sleep in his crate every night (even though the door's been off it for 4 years .) Not sure when kids start school in your area, but might be a plan to think about waiting till your toddler is going to school at least a couple of days a week. Gives you more time to be working on the new one. Personally, I love having one of each sex ..so your idea about a retired female could be a good one (though I'd be wanting one that had not just been stuck in a kennel all the time.) The disadvantage is that your pup might learn stuff you don't want him to learn. My preference would be to do a bit more with the one you've got, especially about calm behaviour in the house, and then think about a pup - probably a girl, so that you can then apply the successful training to her .. and you'll already have the crates, xpens etc. . If your boy dog by then is behaving nicely, you'll find a pup will be doing quite a bit of copying .. got that happening now in my house.

Second the taking pup into local pet store .. I took my latest pup in before second vacc .. just carrying her in my arms. She's been in a few times sine .. great place to take some little training exercises on the road .. but tiny bits at a time .. and in my girl's place .. impulse control .. not every person wants/needs to meet you. Check out your local Bunnings store too .. small dogs/pups are allowed in most of them in trolleys. When they too big for the trolleys, technically they have to be muzzle I believe, if theyre on the floor. As far as spending your retirement time goes .. no, not a non-existent dream .. just that you tend to spend your time differently. And hopefully, maybe develop new interests. One of the tricky things when the pup is little too, is to remember to build in plenty of rest time. I'm finding with my current pup, now 18 weeks, that the nap requirements vary from day to day, partly depending on what she's been doing, but also on her growth rate .. growth spurts _ more nap time required. OH and you need to build in coping with alone time for pup, into your plans. I get that you need/want to plan, but do remember to build in .. learning who your pup is, and what delights/concerns the pup. That takes quite a lot of time, some of which is just sitting round observing. Make sure to build in proessing time for pup's developing brain .. they need time to process what they're seeing, learning etc. Nephew sounds a great age to help you.

To address this point first ... I don't think it's anything you've done wrong. When this sort of thing happens, it's usually the older dog teaching the puppy that a) it's gone too far with whatever it was doing and needs some impulse control and/or b) that its puppy licence has run out!. Either way, not a bad thing as long as it is appropriate and measured. I would be another who would seriously counsel you against getting 2 Vizsla pups together, whether litter mates or not. Believe me, when you're retired, you're not going to have that unlimited time you think you'll have, and also, if you're thinking in terms of performance sports down the track, that time is much better spent working on building a great relationship with one pup, learning who that pup is, and adjusting expectations accordingly. Then probably look at getting another pup when the initial one is about 2 or 3, and well settled into your routines. That will seriously help the next pup, as they do a lot of learning by mimicry. I probably wouldn't be planning in so much detail, but in general, most of what you plan for helping the pup to get used to the world is fine .. although depending on the age of your nephew, I would be a bit cautious about just letting boy and pup loose together. The same thing applies to play dates with older dogs... they need to be carefully supervised to protect a youngster from over exerting, or damaging a growing body. You need to protect the pup from getting over the top excited (good luck with that from the Vizslas I've known), and from doing too much physical stuff too soon. I haven't done puppy pre-school with any puppy I've had .. partly a timing thing, and partly because some of them are not very useful or good for the puppy. I probably wouldn't be letting your pup be on the ground in a park where a lot of dogs have been until 2nd vac (C5), but by all means drive the pup to lots of places where you can sit and let pup observe all sorts of people and things. And you can be observing pup's reactions to strange people, objects, noises etc.

Now that's a super update!! You've got this now (which you'll find is a very common saying on the CCR group .