Tassie

You might be better off asking in the GSD breed sub forum - but personally, I'd be waiting a bit longer - growth plates need to have closed IMO - but then I'm probably an over-cautious worry wort. I like the dog's body to have matured quite a bit, and muscled up a bit before I start bike training. It's so easy for the humans, we tend to overdo it for the dog. JMHO

On a roll there Seita - congrats to you and Ella - and yes, definitely greedy. :D But hugely well deserved. (A friend and I have a tradition of celebrating titles with a bottle of Moet & Chandon - be thankful you don't have that tradition .)

TO - you'll be perfect when Rally O comes in - talking to your dog is not only not penalised, it's encouraged as part of teamwork

- and if you pop over to the Border Collie thread, you'll see the most gorgeous picture of two very happy girls http://www.dolforums.com.au/topic/66907-border-collie-pics/page__st__24615__gopid__5427312#entry5427312

:D

Keith and Le have some of their courses here There should be some Novice agility among them - just to get you started :D

I think he'll get used to it, murve. Just back off a little, and do little bits and make it hugely rewarding for him - IOW, don't just expect him to work exactly the same inside as he does outside. We've got a small group training insdie down here and it's taken the dogs a little while to get used to being indoors - especially the noise and sound of the db landing

You got in ahead of me Kavik - Exactly - on both counts.

I guess the big thing I've learnt is to peoceed slowly - to make sure that the dog really enjoys the game, and understands the game. Mark your track carefully - not always with the same kind of markers as the dog may start looking for those, and start on collar and lead, so that the dog can't go too far off course - stand still if the dog wanders off a bit, and lots of praise and moving forward when dog is on track. I use quite a lot of articles, and I do put food in them, to encoiurage the dog to respond strongly to articles, and to spend time at them. Other people do things different ways. Start with short straight line tracks - best to start downwind, and longer grass can help - and hot tracks. Have a look on the net - I know there are some training articles out there - haven't got links - sorry. Mistake I made with my agility girl, who has got her T Ch and her first TSD track, is to let her think that it's a game played at warp speed - not to be encouraged . Maybe visit a tracking trial if you get the chance, and talk to some of the people there - they'll give you some pointers.

So do we take it that the CDX meant more - or that you sweated more blood to get it. Good luck to those doing ET this weekend - may the weather gods smile on you, and may you enjoy it as much as we did.

Yay for getting somewhere with the kick back - it's definitely worth doing, and does help both of you to get into a new space. Sorry - ES - Eastern Shore - I'm assuming you ended up going to dog club over there at Bellerive - maybe I was wrong. When I'm not competing with my dogs in their various sports, I go to class there and do some obedience and some Rally O in the morning, and then go and teach puppy class on the Domain.

Forgot to say the kickback stand is a great thing to have in your tool box anyway - so well worth playing round with. :D The hand down the side thing is how the stand was originally taught, but for body sensitive dogs, I think other methods work better Good idea to go along and watch the grading this weekend anyway. I'll miss yet another grading - showing this weekend - think we'll be in grade 3 forever - not a problem really, as we mainly go to club for working around distractions. But all thing being equal I should be at ES the first 2 weeks in August - with my Black/White BC boy (who has a big personal space ) - we should try to catch up with each other. :D

Make sure you let us know closer to the time, pawsaroundoz, and we can point you in the right direction - clubs in Hobart and Launceston have Rally O pretty much every week, so you should be able to see some. :D

- good luck TN and have fun :D

Sounds like you guys are doing the same sort of thing as we've been doing down here - we do Mock Rally O at obedience trials (though those are a bit few and far between.) We had 3 people in Advanced, and about 12 I think in Novice at the last trial here a couiple of weeks ago. I'm happy to say my boy passed his third Novice trial, so we're up in the big time now :D We're enjoying our Rally O hugely - thanks Angelsun.

I lure the stand - from in front at first, and then at the side. I use a verbal marker (cos I'm usually too klutzy to manage the clicker and the lead (if I'm using one, sa at club, and the treats) but youi could equally use a clicker. My fingers are together, palm facing the dog, treat in extended fingers. That will be the same at the side - I use a left hand signal - my hand stops where the dog's nose should stop. Key to the whole thing in my experience is where your hand is in relation to the dog's head - if your hand comes up too much, dog will sit, as he should. If it goes down, dog will (correctly) drop. Stand - the spine needs to be level - parallel to the ground, and the head is neutral to the spine - neither up nore down. When I first teach it to puppies, I only expect a 4 on the floor spine parallel to the ground - and only for a nano second - just to differentiate it from the other positions. Then I release the pup with my release word, then start again. Pretty sooon you can get rid of the lure, and do multiple mark and rewards while the pup stays in the sstand position. Again, I'll work this from in front, and also at the side (but by itself - not as part of a heel pattern - that comes way later.) Once pup gets the idea, you can start playing the steady feet game, which you'll find described in some threads in this forum. (Thank you WA gurus :D .) Naomi if your grading is this weekend, as I think it might be, you might not get it in time for that - but don't sweat it. It's sometimes good for a dog not to go up the classes too quickly. Gives you time to consolidate and polish, and it pays off later on.

I think if you do it regularly - and in small doses each time - he'll get used to the idea. Just maintain your criteria about not reinforcing mugging you for food - ignore that, and as soon as you can, reward for nice work with focus on you (not the food) - even if it's only one step Just thinking, another thing you could try (to get him used to working while you have food on you - is something Matry Ray taught us (others do it too). It goes something like - food in left hand, arm extended, you wakl in Big circles - dog is on the outside of the circle focused on food this time. Ignore if he jumps at the food - keep walking, then be ready to reward a step or two with his feet actually on the ground. She does this to get the nice prancy heeling, but it also works for teaching the dog not to mug the food. Mary says to stop (but with feet apart so as not to cue a sit) and deliver the reward to the dog while he's stationary, and then keep going. Hope that made sense. It's worth a play with - and shouldn't wreck anything else.

Yep - so know what you mean.

:D That's what it's all about.

Do I leave the dog in a sit, watching me walk off? Then I send to find once I return to dog? Would just like not to include any heelwork at the current stage if I can help it! Yep - initially I would just leave her in a sit, or a wait of some description - it doesn't need to be too formal - when we start training baby tracking, and when we did this one with Sue at Camp T, we could have someone just hold the dog. Later when she knows the game, you could just have her in the car, and then just walk her over to where you started the track, and ask her to find. (When we're doing baby tracking, we actually have the dog on a normal collar and lead to make sure they're actually not deviating from the track too much - and of course, heaps of encouragement if they're on the track and working it. Doing this sort of stuff is teaching the game of tracking, rather than a sort of formal exercise - but then it can be built into the exercise quite nicely when you're ready. I think

@ sllh - I'd back RS's suggestion of splitting - one step at a time, reinforcing, rather than trying to do the whole figure. Make sure the dog actually knows where heel is, and then try not to give him chances to get out of heel position. You're right about your head and shoulder position being something to watch - turning back towards the dog at all gives him permission to be behind (or maybe even to start a left or left about rturn - not what you want. And I wouild also say waatch the placement of reward - it needs to be reinforcing the dog for keeping in position, which when he's on the outdside, means he will have to be travelling faster - so if anything, place slightly forward. (Still working on this one to get it solid against distractions. ;) )

Snap, ness .. I was going to suggest the baby tracking thing to RS. Sue H plays the game where the dog sees you walk off and put the item down, but in long grass where the dog actually has to use the known direction and then nose to find it. Party when article is found. So you could just gradually extend that - doesn't have to be with the real SB article - in fact - maybe better not. So you're teaching the tracking bit, and making the finding worthwhile. Then gradually build the retrieve in. You could either double track - so out and back on the same line - or better, I think - single track - out to place the article, then aaway and back to the dog via a different roiute. At work, so that probably makes no sense at all.

:D bless Brookie. It's interesting isn't it - people (me included) worry about some other issues relating to the show/obedience crossover, but the stacking one was one I hadn't thought of.

I'd be looking at some kind of front clip harness - such as Easy walk There are a few variations on the theme. The idea is that if the dog pulls, instead of going forward, it is turned towards the handler. I haven't personally used them, but know people who have had good reasults with front clip harnesses with various breeds. I would still be regarding it as a training aid towards loose leash walking, rather than a forever solution. JMO