OSoSwift

Personally I think it's the persons fault, as for the law I have no idea.

exactly, I would put up with it for a while hoping the owner was trying to fix it, if it didn't stop I would compain. Dogs that bark all the time annoy the crap out of me. Dogs that bark and shut up don't worry me.

that is just lovely and the colour suits her so well. Sailor is a stunner as well :)

I agree. The dog did very well and did it while treading water some of the time. I just don't think it should have been there for that arrest. There was enough human cops flailing around in the water and to add a dog to the mix just made it so much more dangerous for everyone. He had no idea who was supposed to be the aggressor and who was supposed to be the one arresting the aggressor. They were all fighting in a big pile. All were aggressors in his eyes. And he did his job trying to break up a fight as he has been taught. In that situation I bet he didn't even know which one was his handler - until they came out of the water and he allowed his handler to pull him out of the mess. I don't think anyone here thinks the dog is a bad police dog - he was just a weapon deployed that should have remained uncocked for that situation. I would also put money on some of the injuries sustained by the police officers to be also from friendly fire from their buddies. Very difficult to see anythng with water and spray and lights in your face. Was that also misdirected aggression or just missing the target and getting a buddy instead? If the situation had been a guy in the water, a handler and a dog (with the lights so we could see the action) and the dog run in front of the handler to stop the guy. And when the dog does his job, the guy gets arrested by the handler. But from the footage it was much more exciting than that. If he has had the right training and right blood lines, I agree, he would have gone to sleep in his crate soon after and forgotten about it. This leads to another question - I have seen many PP dogs get trained, have participated as well, and watch countless videos. How much police training goes into this type of situation (ie a pile of fighting bodies - some cops and some crims)? I don't imagine it is ever done. This is as opposed to having a dog stop a man with the handler behind the dog, generally egging it on. You seem to agree and then disgree. I think you are full of it. How would you have done better? Lights on!! Lights off! Water! No water! What if? What if? The dog responded just the way he should have against a dickhead who took the time to give the finger to police on more than one occasion, threatened his handler and prior the public. VEry well put and in a lot less words than I did :) Oh and the title is a misnomer, yes the handler went to the hospital to have his injuries treated, from the dickhead and from the dog bite. To say the dog put him in hosptial is stretching the truth extensively

I though as much, Guru Bertie you was right :D

Sweet I love being a guru, will there be burnt offerings? :D Nawww, you must have missed my edit, sadly the thread I was referring to self-combusted :worship: Guru Bertie

And? Apart from the fact you find them entertaining?

Yep I agree, although sometimes I like to ask why, most of the time people don't know why they just do :)

It's OK. I understand. Your dogs have no command to bite people, but they will bite people if you're not there to tell them "leave" and you believe this has made them a lot safer and not a liability and everyone else agrees. No I did not say they would bite unless I was there, They are a guardian breed, they were taught to leave it. Do you think I should have taught them no cmmands to leave it? Would that have made them safer in your eyes? If someone came into my property and got bitten that would be their fault. My dogs were well socialised to all sorts of people in an effort to try and instill which people were nice so that they would not try and bite those. Should someone coming flying over my fence and get bitten by the dog, well tough. Nice people generally walk through open doors not jump fences or climb through forced or broken windows or doors. I cannot say what my dogs would do exactly when I wasn't there as well I wasn't there! They may do nothing for all I knew. Why try and make something of nothing? Are you trying to have a go becasue you think I ma against PP training? As i am not I have no experience, never trained it adn would think it irresponsible to trya nd have a go Why try and make something of nothing? I saw your statements appear three times - once by you then repeated twice by others. That's all. :) And? You are trying to say my dog was a liability due to how I had or hadn't trained her, yes? You were being inflammatory and I am still to figure out exactly why?

They need to be like that (& more) when mustering/yarding feral goats too! sometimes they are told to bite & hang on to a foot or nose , otherwise the goats don't believe what they're being told ! I don't think he would do that, he has never even nipped a sheep well not that has ever caused a mark or pulled wool. Who knows though, we have one goat named Yoghurt and she isn't being told by anyone!

It's OK. I understand. Your dogs have no command to bite people, but they will bite people if you're not there to tell them "leave" and you believe this has made them a lot safer and not a liability and everyone else agrees. No I did not say they would bite unless I was there, They are a guardian breed, they were taught to leave it. Do you think I should have taught them no cmmands to leave it? Would that have made them safer in your eyes? If someone came into my property and got bitten that would be their fault. My dogs were well socialised to all sorts of people in an effort to try and instill which people were nice so that they would not try and bite those. Should someone coming flying over my fence and get bitten by the dog, well tough. Nice people generally walk through open doors not jump fences or climb through forced or broken windows or doors. I cannot say what my dogs would do exactly when I wasn't there as well I wasn't there! They may do nothing for all I knew. Why try and make something of nothing? Are you trying to have a go because you think I am against PP training? As I am not, I have no experience, never trained it and would think it irresponsible to try and have a go and potentially create a disater. I guess the fact I have owned and trained Guarding breeds for many years with no incidents means I am an idiot then?

which is why we have : dogs who are good at , and enjoy mustering dogs who really are only at their best in the yards dogs better at goats than sheep dogs who are terrific in working away from human control ..and the ones who think they are doing a terrific job ..but are really only being given a day out ;) they usually have an area in which they do best - so, that's what they will be given to do..... ..that's what good handlers do, Perse. Sadly not everyone is a good handler. I have to say our little OCD fella, is very handy in yards, paddock and on single sheep. We try to praise him for doing as we ask and he is like yeh yeh get outta my way and let me work sheep. He has been run over a few times by rams and whilst backing off a little for self preservation he still kept doing his job. He's got guts and lives for sheep work. If you asked him what he wanted it would be a definitly let me work sheep, even if I occassionally get ouchies! There are risks in allowing my WHippets to chase bunnies, I remove as much risk as I can but they are doing what they are bred for and should be sound enough to do.

Sounds very good. How often did you need to command them not to bite people? And how often did you let them go ahead and bite people? They were never commanded to bite anyone, they were given a command to guard which meant put your hackles up and growl. If off lead to run the perimeter of their area whilst having hackles up and voicing off. The leave it stopped two people being bitten - or I believed had they continued to do what they were, and the dog not told to leave them then they would have been bitten. Leave was taught in a general term, ie leave it - do not go near whatever it was they were interested in, snake, rabbit, sheep, person dog etc. The leave it stopped quite a few annoying dogs being bitten as even though they were in her face and she had gone to bite she listening and didn't. Still voiced her displeasure but enable me to get her back and the otehr dog not get bitten. Generally I stayed out of circumstances that would have potentially required my dog to bite. With the WHippets I have got buckly's of them getting off the lounge. OK. I'm not so impressed now. You didn't say how often you've let them go ahead and bite people. I am not out to impress anyone so I really don't care. I would prefer my dog not bite people and they didn't as they hadn't needed to. They were well trained and could be taken anywhere and relied for having stable temperments. They looked convincing enough when they needed to ans shut up when told, made me happy, thats what matters

NO-one said they would not take a buyers preferences/situation into account. Personally I want my puppy to go to the best home it can. I want the puppy buyer and puppy to have the best possible realtionship they could have. This means that they need to be suited. If I had two or more puppies that were very similar then I would happily let a buyer choose the one they liked the best. I had four puppies with very different personalities, I had four very different home environments, so far all families are beyond happy with their puppy. I didn't just say here this one is yours, we discussed what sort of personality they would like, what their home life was like, if they wished to do obedience/dog sports or not etc etc. There is one bitch I adored and I balled my eyes out when she got on the plane. I would have loved to have kept her but I knew that she didn't have the type of temperment I needed and the home she was going to was perfect for her. They waited 2 years to get a baby from me and they have sent me emails telling me they are happy they did and she is perfect. Two families had never met their puppy's in person before they got them off the plane, one had visited them when they were around 4 weeks, then again when their pup was 11 weeks old and they were taking her home. I want the best homes for my babies that involves knowing as much about a families needs and expectations as I can. My puppies are worth more to me that placing them with the first person that picks them because theya re pretty, or look he loves me he came and sat on my foot etc etc etc. I am not being arrogant I am being true to my babies, after all they are mine until such time as I choose to let them go and not everyone deserves one of my babies!

Sounds very good. How often did you need to command them not to bite people? And how often did you let them go ahead and bite people? They were never commanded to bite anyone, they were given a command to guard which meant put your hackles up and growl. If off lead to run the perimeter of their area whilst having hackles up and voicing off. The leave it stopped two people being bitten - or I believed had they continued to do what they were, and the dog not told to leave them then they would have been bitten. Leave was taught in a general term, ie leave it - do not go near whatever it was they were interested in, snake, rabbit, sheep, person dog etc. The leave it stopped quite a few annoying dogs being bitten as even though they were in her face and she had gone to bite she listening and didn't. Still voiced her displeasure but enable me to get her back and the otehr dog not get bitten. Generally I stayed out of circumstances that would have potentially required my dog to bite. With the WHippets I have got buckly's of them getting off the lounge.

Well I am thinking if people believe that a fully trained and operational Police dog should not be put into situations that may cause it harm, do they think that dogs should not be working sheep. Anyone that works with sheep knows that rams and stroppy old ewes can be right arseholes if they decided to be. If people think that poilce dogs should not do as they have been bred and trained for, then they would also think that a sheep dog should not work sheep. In both cases dogs may potentially be injured. I know what the dogs would say, just wondering on peoples views or perceptions of risk.

I know of many that swear by it, thought I would look up puppy gold, saw that and it gave me a giggle. Luckily I haven't need to use anything so have no experience with feeding anything like that to puppies. Oh and I love cows milk so nope I would never give that up :)

Out of interest do people think sheep dogs should not work sheep?

start with what they recommend and then put it up or down dependant on what their bodyweight does. Mine is pretty well spot on for my adults. The puppy I feed as much as he will eat at the moment.

Interesting and did make me giggle a little :) I have never used it so can't coment I have used their other formulas and found them good, but have not used them long term as yet.

What I see is a belligerent dangerous offender they had tried to arrest for a period of time. I also see a fearless dog wading in where man others would not have. I do not think that this is a case of redirection from this dog. It would have been extremely difficult for that dog to know whos's limbs were whom's in that circumstance. I do not think they would have deployed a dog into this situation without a great deal of thought for his and the other officers safety. They would have known the risks, how often do we see cases of people bitten while trying to break up fights, the dog in the frenzie of it all does not know that it has bitten its owner or someone. In this case you have a dog that is trained to bite people so the risk of a person OTHER than the offender being bitten is high. They would have taken that into consideration. And deemed the risk worth it. The dog appears to come under control quickly once on the beach while remaining intensely focused on the idiot they had just arrested. I also believe that police dogs are trained to deal with many circumstances that our dogs will never have to encounter (thankfully), yes they do go into dangerous situations and they do get injured at times. Some argue that this is unreasonable and a dog should never be placed in that circumstance. You know what, I don't believe it's fair to ask our police force to put people in that circumstance either, but they go in there and put their lives on the line. They value their relationship with their canine partner and they both look out for each other. I believe that our canine unit do an amazing job and keep us a lot safer. Whilst not ideal the dogs are well trained and are not put into any dangerous situation unless it is vitally necessary ( like human officers). I have a huge amount of respect for our police force, human, canine and equine and am thankful they do what they do to make our world a safer place to live in. I would never accuse a dog handler of putting his dog in unnecessary risk as I do not believe they do or would. I do not see this as an example of why having a pp trained dog is dangerous or why it cannot be trusted in a family environment. I do believe dogs that are not trained at least to some degree and are of guardian breeds, are more of a liability. Mine were not protection trained, they had a command to guard, one to speak and one to leave (as in leave that person do not bite them) I do believe this made them safer not more of a liability.

In your case I would let you choose yours, I would give you the info regarding temperments ect that I knew and allow you to make your choice. Our working dog pup was picked up by friends and delivered to us - we had seen two photos - we told his breeder what we were after and that we had never trained a working dog before. He is perfect for what we needed - ie he is rather intelligent and works the sheep himself with a small amount of direction from us and is brilliant on sheep. He isn't that way due to our trianing, it is his hardwired ability.

I wanted my puppies to go to the right home and for their families to have a good puppy buying/owning experiences. I took what they said they were after and their circumstances ( it helps that I was in contact with them for some time so had gotten to know them well). At two weeks I was starting to get a feel for their personalities and they solidified but didn't change a lot ( ie the quietest one was still that, the most full on was still full on). Having said that no-one was told who their puppy was until around 7 weeks of age. They had their check ups etc and then I contacted all the people to double check they were happy etc. All of my puppy buyers were happy to have the right puppy chosen for them. I did have a lot of enquiries regarding on particular bitch and it was because of her colour and markings. Some people were not happy when one that particular bitch was already sold, but puppies were selected for temperament not colour. If someone was a breeder or experienced in dog sports and wanted something in particular I would happily let them have the most imput and just let them know what I could about temperament to help then choose the best dog for what they wanted.

Dumb, dumb, dumb people in this world! And lets just say we all have our own definition of cute!!!!!!

Hey OSS, you can definitely give it daily. If the dog isn't active enough though it can put excess weight on them. Okay thank you :) I have ordered a small container to give it a go and see what happens :)