OSoSwift

I think you have a very valid point Anne and the problem is how do you try to counter act peoples thoughs and feelings towards their dog/dogs????

Agreed! Would you mind posting a piccie of what you've done please? I'm just not sure what more I can do around here :D Will do, hopefully will get if finished tomorrow, but when I do I will take some photos. Oh and I will post a photo of before as well ;) Would love to see your Pic's, I have come in for a Drink from 'Snake Proofing' (hopefully), Once iam finished i will post some pics as well, but i won't be able to say it has worked until we see no more snakes in the Dog Area. :D YEp just when you think you might have done it another bloody snake gets in! I won't get it finished today as I have a killer sore throat and am lacking rather severly in energy. I am building a small yard attatched to the dog runs so will soon be back into trying to snake proof that as well - no rest for the wicked!

So you are seeing that part of the answer is to know who is breeding them and where they are coming from? O.K. So how do you think this would stop people from breeding them in horrible conditions? IT won't at least in the beginning, but surely if we know where they are coming from when can then be better informed about how to control/fix the issue. If a majority are coming from puppy farms then commonsense would tell me that the laws and conditions they need to adhere to are not working. They may need to have the rules changed for them. If they are coming from BYB breeders then maybe we need to look at a way to vastly reduce how many people do that. If they ar coming from rego'd breeders then the canine controls need to crack down on the big time and find their teeth which they apear to lack severly. All too often you hear "many of the dogs we get through the pound are purebred" yes but WHERE ARE THEY COMING FROM?????? They may be from someone who has quite a few of a certain breed and pumps them out litter after litter. A relative of mine had pugs. Some were sourced from rego'd breeders, some BYB. They had 8 bitches and two dogs from memory. They breed quite a few litters as they had a demand for them. Now to most people these dogs could end up in the pound and they were purebred, but from a BYB that was verging on a PUppy farmer. Luckily for those PUgs they had two Caesars and decided it cost to much and gave them all away. I just hope they went to better owners than they themselves were. I really do not see how anything can be worked out to attempt to control dogs ending up in pounds and being dumped if we have no idea where they are coming from. Slightly off topic. I think all microchips should have the breeder info on not only so that we can figure out where the dogs are coming from, but also so they can get them back if they end up in pounds. I would pay to get my puppies out of the pound or whatever situation they were in if I needed to. The puppy farms are not necessairly going to want them back, but an ethical breeder will. Hope that answers your question Steve - woken up with toncillitus so not really thinking clearly

Oh for goodness sake keep to the questions at hand, For those that have answered or attempted to answer, great and thankyou. Anyone else go play in another thread!

Is your Dobe brown??? I found when I had my Brown Dobe people were always trying to tell me he was a GSP or a Weim. SOunds like a complete tool. Yep your dog looks like that because you feed it a crap diet - not! I have seen a dog or two on an unbalanced raw diet that did benefit from a premium dry food as well as because the balance wasn't right, but done properly it obviously works and well.

MAybe we need more vets to do tubal ligations and vasectomies so the dogs can have the hormones to ensure correct growth but no have babies and then they are desexed when older????? Just a thought

Whippets are a medium sized dog - on the smaller side and they are much like Greyhounds in the fact they like small bursts of energy but when that is over with they lay around. Lewis is possibly a higher energy dog and he will still have a good play, walk etc and then snooze the rest of the day away. Rommi is totally tuckered after an hour of activity (free running,playing with Lewis, fetching toys, lead walk etc) Lewis probably take 2 hours. This could be them taking themselves for a play in the back yard pr playing fetch with a toy or obedience training. It is not a hour or two of exercise on top of what they do themselves in a day. Right now they are snoozing on the lounge under a blanket.

I know of one bitch who was that badly injured she had to be euthanased. They believe the only reason she was still alive was she had managed to wedge herself in a corner under a tree and only had to defend a small hole. The other two were cirlcing, growlng and trying to keep going, her front legs were shredded it is believed from them attempting to pull her from under her spot. In this case three dogs were involved a entire bitch and dog AmStaff against an entire female Stafford.

I think all puppies should be chipped and the information regarding who bred them should stay on there. THen pwoplw would have an idea of where all these puppies are coming from. I think when we have more of an idea where they are coming from can we then figure out the best way to manage the excess of puppies being euthed, dogs surrended etc. Oh and purebred does not mean registered or from a person doing the right thing.

Agreed! Would you mind posting a piccie of what you've done please? I'm just not sure what more I can do around here :p Will do, hopefully will get if finished tomorrow, but when I do I will take some photos. Oh and I will post a photo of before as well

Did the Vet give Rookie antihistamains (sp) first, every time Busters been Bitten ( 3x ) they have given them first, in case of a reaction, apparently its because the antivenin is from Horses and Dogs can be alergic to Horses, this is what one of the Vets told me. Its really upsetting watching them wait while the antohistamin works before they get the AntiVenein in, this is when i break down and get nervous. Busters first bite was a Red Belly Black at the end of the season, he came through that really well. But after the Two Browns last year he has aged so much ( he was just over 4 1/2 when it happened ) He also has issues with his Kidneys, we have taken him to a Chiropractor, who helped a lot with manipulation and laser treatment. I hope Rookie and his Sister never see another snake, what Breed are they? Geez Buster has had some encounters hasn't he! Living with him in summer would be very stressful. Fingers crossed he stays well away from them this year!

Not sure what your vets do, but at my vets they routinely give antihistamines when giving antivenon, along with other stuff including Vit B, C and anti inflammatories from memory. I think it is recommended to give antihistamines as vaccine reaction is not uncommon. Gosh brings back some awful memories and the dogs we have treated, fought hard for and very occasionally lost. I hated every summer when working at the vets for that very reason.

They are of course daedly at any time of year, however my belief from what I have been told is that the venom is less concentrated towards the end of the season. There are many variables including how good a bite the snake got in, how much venom was injected, when they had their last bite was and where on the dog the bite occured. Quite often the actual spot of the bite is unknown. Sometimes you may find swelling or bleeding at the bite site. An adult snake with the full power of it's strike behind it would be able to get through fur. It would be the babies that would struggle to get through lots of hair. The fact that Sully didn't show signs of snake bite until 14 hours after would lead you to believe that the concentration of venom was low or the snake didn't get a good bite and amount of venom in. I have completed phase two of trying to more snake proof the dogs runs. One more day should have it licked. Then I hope I make it too hard for them and they go elsewhere.

Okay most things have been covered. Have you tried getting down at her level on the grass and also remember to look up incase something overhead may have made a noise or bang and scared her. Sorry that's the only suggestions I have ????

And the poor dogs wouldn't have lasted long had it been a snake!! Me too, I more than a bit sensetive at the moment especially since i squished one in a gate I had just walked through at my head height! That would have freaked me out as well. Anything that is black, dark brown or has scales has me moving backwards at a very fast rate of knots before my brain has a change to kick in and come up with an identity!

I don't quite understand that. Sure, I can understand there may be more chance of a 'miss' on a longer/heavier coated dog by comparison to a short haired dog, but I wouldn't think a snake "needs" an unfluffy area on the dog to envenomate. Mind you - I'm no expert and I'm not asserting anything here as I truly do not know, but it is something that I'm inclined to query. I've heard this before and as it did then (but I didn't take the time to ask) it again raises a query in my mind, that being : Does a snake really think to itself "hey, I won't deliver venom on this one" ??? I mean, why wouldn't it? What has it got to lose? Why not play on the safe side (from the snake's point of view)? What is it that would make the snake NOT deliver venom? Not aiming this question at you OSS (although if you are a snake expert, then yes I am :p ) but I would like an answer to satisfy my curiosity. NOt an expert Erny, just have to live with lots of them unfortunately! The idea with the less fluffy are is basically the fact they have small mouths and short fangs so if they strike at a fluffy say full BC coat they are more likely to get a mouth full of fluff and not get close to the skin. If they get the dog on the short coat say on the face or legs then they are more likely to be able to penetrate the skin. IT doesn't have to be short coated to bite, just they are more likely to succeed in gaining envenomation Snakes from what I have been told by a snake guy will generally not waste venom on something that they cannot eat, unless they are in potential mortal danger. If they struck at everything they waste venom and they only make it at a certain rate. So if they struck and envenomated 50 large things they couldn't eat, then when they came across something they could eat they may not have much venom or concenration of venom to use. If of course a dog is razzing them up they will highly likely get killed so they will envenomate to attempt to nullify the danger. I am told that quite often a snake that has something get to close it will strike to get the danger to go away, and realistically that would be me gone for dust. They quite often don't envenomate at that time if they contact as it is more a warning which is quite often heeded. If the danger does not move away then they do envenomate. I have personally found the young babies seem to arc up really quickly and are very quick to open their mouths and go hell for leather to strike, heads flattened out, even when you are not really close. The adults tend to try getting away and only arc up when cornered or attacked. I am quite sure though that there are people on here that know way more than me I am just going on what I have been told in the past. I do agree with the concentration of venom thing though as the dogs we used to get at the beginning of the snake season took more antivenom to treat and went down hill faster as a general rule that those towards the end of the snake season. We had a higher rate of success from around half way through the snake season. My friend who works at the vet has said many are just not making it in even when they dog has been seen being bitten by the snake and they have hoofed it for town.

Great acheivement! Sounds like her dogs are well represented out there in more ways than one, and they are doing the breed proud. Goes to show that some people just have an eye for a dog regardless of if they show/trial etc their dogs or not. Some people who do show etc don't have an eye for a dog, some people do. This person obviously has it. I have heard of these dogs before and the ones I have seen do very well for themselves. My thing is health testing. I want to know what your breed should be health tested for and then I want to know if it has been done with the parents of the puppy. I don't why to hear why that person in particular doesnt need to do it, I have heard it all before and had a dog die at 8 and a half from a disease that didn't needed to be tested for as it wasn't in their blood lines. So I don't like to be spun crap. I want to know the temperment of the parents as I will have done my research and know what they are generally supposed to be like. I have a certain type of temperment I am after. I like honest open people and while I understand not everyone is a chatty people person I don't want to have to drag answers to my questions out of people. I also want to be asked questions regarding what I am planning to do with the dog ie showing, obedience, companion etc. where the dog will be living. I LOVE before and after puppy contact (just ask my breeders!) so would be put off by someone who doesn't care after the sale - although I guess by then it is too late, but would never get another from them. I am quite honest and open with what I want with my puppy so I expect an honest evalutaion of the puppy they are going to send me. I know that they can change when away from their litter mates, but I want to know if they are really outgoing, really quiet or shy.

The differentce for me is the food is available locally. The Black Hawk, which I really want to get, comes with around a $60 freight fee. However the fact it is an import product put me off even though the food it's self looks good. At this point I may have to stick to the Optimum. At least it doesn't have wheat.

Dogo's are on the banned list for import into Australia. Shame, they are a lovely looking dog, but are for those who know what they are doing I believe.

YEp even the little ones are very deadly. I have been told that even though they need to bite an unfluffy area on the dog to envenomate - shorter fangs, as they are young they have no control over how much venom they inject and unlike the adults who can chose the amount of venom or deliver a "dry" bite so they can be just as deadly if not more so. They are also quite feisty if accidentally suprised! WE were walking out of the garage and I saw something flivking around about a metre from Lewis who was totally oblivious and it was a tiny baby snake going right off. Luckily well out of striking range. I can understand you using the bird mesh. Yes it isn't nice and you must check often as you do and dispatch of any snake caught in there quickly. But sometimes you just have to protect those within your small patch of turf ETA - the small snakes needing a shorted haired area isn't very comforting for me - all my dogs hair is thin and short!

Goodness me Cooper is a very special boy. And thankfully not bitten. I have had my dog runs for 10 years. They have had what they have on them for that time. I have found two very small pencil thin snakes in there over that 10 years. Until I squashed one ( around 40cms long) in the top of the gate just above my head! I am thankful I didn't get bitten, but I was soo thankful neither of the dogs were bitten because god knows how it got in or how long it had been in there for! Ours have all been tigers so far. No browns as yet.

I really think for me it depends on the breed. When it was Dobes, girls only, the boys completely did my head in. My family has always had girls so my immediate thought is girls. However since I have had my Whippets Lewis is the sookier and "want to get inside your skin"dog and Rommi is friendly but not quite as smoochy. So now the sex doesn't really matter and I am probably leaning towards boys. As for the mix I do not have a set combination but have a bitch and a dog - entire- and a desexed dog at the moment and all goes very well.

I have just spent another 5 hours doing more snake proofing on the dog runs! I have another day and need some more supplies before I can finish. It will then be snake meshed to the roof. I am attatching shade cloth around the bottom - which is snake meshed but I am not totally happy with some little gaps around the bottom. This will then be dug into the ground. All the gaps around the bricks and between the bricks and the back of the roof will be filled with expanding foam and/or steel wool. I hope that stops them! I am really stressed because of all the snakes we have this year. My friend that works at the vets has seen heaps of bites, but many are just not making it in and some live quite close. Very scary stuff!

Very interesting CC. And good to know, just be even better to know about the dog food imports.

Many new people do not understand why it is undesirable to breed unrego'd dogs. They may not have got them from a rego'd breeder so do not know any different. As mentioned all people need to start somewhere and maybe this person has gone registered?, state canine body? breeders prefix? health tests? what the????? and may be researching. Hopefully they will be back as they have much they can learn.