Souff

The procedure is exactly the same, it just depends on the recovery and the individual dog as to what sort of result is achieved. I had my boy done, and stayed with him throughout the entire procedure - it's very simple. Two small pieces of tissue are removed and it is far less invasive than a spay or even a castrate. I kept my boy isolated and sedated during the 10-day recovery period and the result was excellent - no voice whatsoever. Dogs who are allowed to bark throughout recovery will often be left with a raspy, husky sounding bark. Thank you Miss B. You have answered a question that I have been asking myself for years: "Why are some dogs totally silent after de-barking and yet others sound like Neville Wran?" All the debarked dogs I have met are quite happy and you are right, it is a very minor procedure. Hence it is staggering that it is treated as a criminal act in the regressive southern states. Souff

For stone and Geo or better yet, take it somewhere else. Insults are very boring. Does anyone know how the toddler in the pram is? Souff

OK My two cents worth re all camps is that there will always be the ethical and the unethical in every camp. Policing ethics is a lot harder than many people realise and short of chucking the person out of an organisation, if they wont be educated and change their grubby ways, there is not a lot that can be done to change the people concerned. If they get chucked out, they will still just be out there doing the same things and bringing the dog world into disrepute so not much changes. Registries are not government authorities and do not have the power of a body like the RSPCA. Registries can register and give guidelines but policing? Not very effective at all. The thread has taken a totally different direction and I think the new subject has been done to death in the past anyway. Does anyone know how the little boy is? Souff

Katrina, Where did I say this? I commented, and agree with, this post: "No crossbreeds are finely bred animals with years of bloodlines at hand for trait selection to produce a temperament balance to safely fit into the community, crap dogs bred by idiots unfortunately." I will make an exception for the working crossbred dogs whose pedigrees are recorded on non-ANKC registers and who are not lunging into prams. Beyond that, no, I will stick with the statement made above. Souff

Where did anyone say "all" crossbreeds? I have no problem with working lines being specifically bred to do a task on properties and I am pretty sure I am not going to find them lunging into a child's pram in the streets of Melbourne. The dogs that feature in reports of dog attacks on a sickeningly all-too-regular basis in metropolitan newspapers are a far cry from the dogs used on the land. If I am correct, many of the working dogs lines are recorded on registers other than the ANKC registers. It is unlikely that the pedigree of dogs like the one in this attack are recorded anywhere. I would not expect there to be any knowledge as to what exactly was in the makeup of this dog, as is the case when I ask owners of crossbred dogs in the city about the features/temperament of the parents when they have a behavioural problem with their dogs. I rarely get the information that I ask for, so I do not know if I am working with herding lines, retrieving lines, terrier lines, or any other bloody lines. The owners of crossbred dogs in cities rarely know the inherited attributes that make their dog tick - often it is anybody's guess. If might look like one type of dog, but it is driven by the attributes of another type of dog. To know is to understand, and then to better manage the dog. Knowing the predictability of a dog comes from knowing what is in it's background, as I am sure you well know. Souff

Given that infants skin is very fine, an agitated dog with any sort of claws could do major damage, especially near the eyes. Scratches or gouges? Somewhere in the reports it appears that the man with the wrench had to put his hands round the dog's throat to get the dog to release the child. Somewhere in all this mess of 'blame the dog/ blame the man/ blame the owner/blame the media' there is a very frightened, injured small child who may never want to be put in the pram again and may grow up with a hatred of dogs. Those scars can be more long lasting than the actual injuries. None of this had to happen .... if people who supposedly love dogs had shouldered their responsibility properly in the first place. Souff

He is a hunter. He was born a hunter and will probably stay as a hunter. I owned a cat like him for 14 years and I will never own another a cat again. We tried everything to curb his activities but it was too strong an instinct. I never appreciated his presents. Nowadays cat cubes can be set up and you can train young cats to live in them and the other critters are safe. We did not have cat cubes when my cat was alive and I think I know the racket he would have made if contained in such a unit. Souff

Unfortunate dogs owned by irresponsible owners unwilling to take the time to socialise and train their dogs to be good canine citizens.... Your hatred of crossbreeds sickens me and makes you look a bigot! ROBBI, This is a forum for the pure breed dog community and I totally agree and support what TheCoat has said: "No crossbreeds are finely bred animals with years of bloodlines at hand for trait selection to produce a temperament balance to safely fit into the community ..." This is absolutely spot on and yet you choose to attack the writer. Why on earth would hundreds of breeders of purebred dogs have taken the trouble to research bloodlines before breeding, often over many years, if we were not trying to breed dogs with predictable features, including temperament. GOOD STABLE, PREDICTABLE TEMPERAMENT is everything in a companion animal. You can never aim for that predictability in a crossbred dog because of all the unknowns involved. Souff

There is nothing wrong with small dogs having "small dog syndrome" imho. In battle, they are outclassed by sheer body mass. One chomp to a tiny body can spell instant death. Why should they not warn might-be assailants to "back off, and back off now!" ? I would be very worried if all small dogs were passive little creatures, especially when larger dogs can run up from behind (on beaches where they are taken by their owners for fun) and can slay little dogs with ease. Nature gave the dogs the ability to growl and warn off predators, so I have no problem with any dog using that ability if they feel threatened. Souff

First, show us the reports where the dogs involved in attacks are correctly identified. Many dogs are wrongly labelled and yet these descriptions often go into official stats, wrong or not. At the end of the day it is A DOG, and the entire dog world carries the scars, often because of the incredible stupidity of owners who buy the wrong dog, breed the wrong dog and generally do the wrong thing all round. Souff

For chronic barkers where all other methods have failed, and the dog is an adult, then I have no problem with having a dog de-barked. I simply cannot understand why in some states this procedure is criminalised by governments. Barking dogs is the NO.1 COMPLAINT to councils - and this situation is only going to get worse as houses are closer and closer together on smaller blocks of land, and more people are spending less time at home with the dog. Letting months go by while a due process is followed only takes up the time of council officers and everyone else involved with a chronic barker, and tempers become more frayed and neighbourly relations wrecked. What is the point? If the barking dog is a problem, and other methods have failed, then the owner should be able to get the dog to a vet and have the problem solved humanely. I think de-barking is a far better option than putting a dog to sleep, or re-homing the dog, simply because the barking is annoying other people. De-barked dogs still think they are barking - I have never seen any unhappy de-barked dogs. They just sound as if they have a croaky throat. In an ideal world I would love to hear them all dogs barking freely, but a lot of other people don't want to hear this and they have the law on their side. Sigh. And as for the rule in Victoria that you cannot show a de-barked dog .... since when did the dog's bark get judged in the show ring? There must be something in the water in Victoria I think. Crazy stuff. Souff

Having a dog like Hackel would make me sleep well at night. One magnificent animal.

Why Do Dogs Lick People? by Jeff Van Dalsum Puppy Licking You’re taking a moment to relax in front of the television. The family dog wanders over to you and plops down at your feet. Your furry canine friend begins to lick the exposed skin on your leg and continues until you’re all slobbered up. The licking continues until you feel that your skin has been cleaned to the point where it may disappear. Have you ever wondered just what your dog gets out of licking you? Most dogs are so intent on the licking process that you know there has to be a good reason for doing it. Some people say the dog’s licks are canine kisses that prove the dog likes or loves you. Fido is showing you that he cares about you. While this may be one reason that dogs lick people, it is clearly not the only reason why they perform this act. Another theory is that dogs lick you because they were taught to do so by their mother from birth. Female dogs that give birth lick the new puppies to stimulate them to start breathing and to clean them up. Licking is important to the survival of puppies. The licking process is a natural instinct that they quickly learn from their mothers. Licking is also a submissive gesture. In the wild, the more subordinate dogs will lick the more dominant ones. This helps to maintain harmony among the members of the pack. By licking you, the dog is showing you that you are the dominant being and you are in charge. Another reason that dogs lick humans is to gather information about them. Dogs use the scent receptors located in their nose and mouth to process information about a person. A person who is secreting sweat from his or her body is actually unknowingly sending information about him or herself to the dog. This is one reason why a human’s feet are so attractive to a dog. Human feet contain many sweat glands. Eccrine glands release moisture that contains salts, water and waste products. Some dogs love the taste of salt. Sebaceous glands, which are found near hair follicles, release sebum. The combination of the sweat and sebaceous gland secretions provide a lot of detail about you to an inquisitive dog that can tell if you are afraid, stressed or happy. Dogs also enjoy licking because the act releases endorphins that allow the dog to feel pleasure and a sense of security and comfort. In some cases, a dog will go all out to lick his or her owner’s face, hands or legs when strangers are around. Experts believe that this could be the dog’s way of showing that you are important to them and that they care more about you than they do the stranger. While dogs do have good reasons for licking people, some folks don’t understand nor do they care to try to grasp why they are being slobbered on. It is important to train your dog in a manner that he or she does not get carried away with the tendency to lick people. http://perfectpuppycare.com/why-do-dogs-lick-people/

Well if your visitors are that interested you could perhaps tell them: - the pup has a developed a habit of piddling on visitors shoes; - has been running far too much today and now needs to rest; - has to have his bone in there otherwise they will have to vacate the sofa so he can bury it in the cushions; - is likely to vomit somewhere and you would rather it happen in the crate as it is easier to clean up; - has developed phobias and is undergoing psychotherapy and needs to be kept calm. ;) Souff

We also have had this experience. The injury was horrific on an over-adventurous 9-10 month old male and the post surgery pain went on for 3 days after he had been kept at the clinic for observation for the first 2 nights after surgery. Once the pup is mature the vets have to cut into the bone to remove badly ripped dewclaws and it is not a minor op at all. Some rip the tendon up the inside of the leg, just to make a proper mess of things. That experience made me swear that any pups that I breed have dewclaws removed soon after birth. No accidents, no ripped tendons, no post operative pain. A quick snip and a little ouch, then back to mum to suckle as a newborn. Beats years of dewclaw accidents and post operative trauma. Souff

We have one bitch whose dew claws are used for nothing whatsover and they simply never grow. Another bitch from different lines will grow dewclaws into gypsy earrings in weeks if you let her. Neither use their dew claws for anything - it is just different genetics here. Souff

I am still waiting Matt...... Why do I need to leave a kennel club to breed good quality purebred dogs? If I do that who is going to record and authenticate the dogs' pedigrees? Me? Oh no, I dont think so .... Souff might be tempted to add in a few grand champions that were never really there or a few storybook or Disney characters to the names of non-existent dogs .... you never know what might end up in there if Souff was inventing a few generations on a pedigree .... What am I going to use to tell me what I should be aiming for? What am I aiming for if the breed standard is not the bench mark? Aw, come on, Matt, come back and talk to Souffie.

Matt, Is this new news? Which breed standard is troubling you? Souff

I would think that the selling of the current dogs would be legal enough ... but ... I guess, for some, when the RSPCA siezes the poor dilapidated dogs that are at your home ... and they don't know about dogs or pups that are stashed elsewhere, well I suppose life just goes on until they come knockin' again Sigh. Souff

She sure does. Date listed 03/10/2011 Expiry date 02/12/2011 Go figure

So if she loses her job, she cant pay the fine? Your Worship, how about her taking leave from the job and doing JAIL TIME instead? What a disgusting piece of work. Souff

Yes, the photo in the RSPCA's article indicates that one dog was an " ...ese x" Are those are the types of dogs that are sold in pet shops sometimes ....? Souff

Totally agree with you LHOK. And picking up the tab for irresponsible dog owners is never going to teach responsibility. I know of a few young long tailed dogs who have broken their tails since the tail docking legislation came into force and they could not be docked as pups. Using the logic that EmGem has put forward the government should have paid for the surgical removal of those tails after they were broken ... because the government brought in the legislation that banned the procedure they needed to have done shortly after birth. Hey, EmGem, you have given Souff some fresh ammo! Thanks! Souff

It's not about the children or the mother, but about the dog. I am not advocating that people should be encouraged to take on animals that they cannot afford or control. What I am suggesting is that assitance be provided in a few extreme cases so that fewer dogs get killed each year. Looking over the history of seized dogs financial difficulties seems to be the main reason that people don't comply with council requirements. There are very few dogs declared dangerous each year (from the NSW stats). The numbers and the number of people in that kind of finacial difficulty would probably equate to less than one case per council per financial year. Hardly, a huge expense. I do think that the ability to have a pet is a necessity rather than a luxury. I don't think landlords should be able to discriminate on the basis of whether or not people have pets anymore than they should discriminate based on whether or not people have children, and I say this as a landlord myself. I also think that pet ownership should be taken into consideration as a necessity when setting benefit limits and I made the direct comparision to TV because the government already considers that a necessity (as they do personal computers). Personally, I think that providing assistance to people so that fewer pets are handed in to shelters and at risk of death is a good thing. But I can see you think differently. Em Gem I partly agree with you about one thing: PET ownership is a very good thing but ... A PET does not have to be a DOG. When you have been a landlord and seen what damage some dog owners have allowed to happen to the house that you have worked hard to build or buy, then you will be in a position to say whether or not landlords can call the shots over dogs. There is a link between money spent on dogs needs and the dogs that are siezed. Very often money is spent on other things ... and boring old fences and gates are not on the shopping list. The same people who don't have these things on the shopping lists are the ones who often think that the worst will never happen and that nobody will call them to account if their dog causes havoc or tragedy while out loose. btw, this is also about the 5 kids. They were the ones also locked in the pen with the dog ... by their mother. Souff

btw Em Gem, there are 5 little children involved and Souff has not ignored this fact. A 25 year old Mum of 5 cannot hold a full time job, I appreciate that. However, I have just been thinking about another young family of similar size (4 kids under 6)and similar age of parent and they don't have a dog because they are in rented accommodation in a town and they are not allowed a dog. They have guinea pigs, a cat, chooks, birds and fish. Pets galore. Mum works 3 evening shifts a week at the local takeaway while her parents sit with the kids. The 2 older kids are at school and two littlies are not. Mum also takes phone messages for the local tradesman, whose number is diverted to her number while he is at work and she is paid for that. She also minds children at her home for a small fee. She is on government benefits but she works and saves money as well. They have somebody else's old TV and other people's old furniture, gratefully received and now painted in bright colours. If I were to ask this lovely young Mum about your suggestion, I am quite sure that you would not be pleased with her reply either. She too would like to have a dog. Later. Souff