Souff

I have concerns. You have described her as "a tall pomeranian". I assume that the person who sold you the puppy gave you this description. I have just re-read the Breed Standard for Pomeranians and nowhere in it does it say that the dogs are tall. Please read the breed standard: http://www.ankc.org.au/Breed_Details.aspx?bid=40 It describes what the dogs and bitches should look like, and it is important that they do have these features if you are thinking of breeding. An adult female Pomeranian should weigh no more than 2.5 kilograms. A dog of that weight is UNLIKELY to ever be a tall dog. Please wait until your puppy is an adult before making any decisions about breeding. If she is more than 2.5 kgs in weight at the age of 12 months I do not believe you should be breeding from her. She will make a beautiful de-sexed pet who is just a little bit taller than some of the other Poms, and I am guessing that the breeder told you that she would be tall. Best wishes, Souff

This is just a hindsight view, BUT, if you have a stray dog on our hands and it needs a lift to the 24/7 shelter at Fairfield, why not send a message through to this wonderful community of DOLers ! I am sure there would be a DOLer in the area who has a vehicle and can drive and would be willing to be the Dog Taxi for that night. Souff

Impersonating a council officer is NOT a good idea. It is probably a sure-fire way to have a charge laid against you. And I wouldn't be too sure that the teens could not prove that they owned the dog either.

..... somebody pass me a hammer ........ These types of attacks have to be written into law as "grievous bodily harm" and be given the same minimum sentencing as an attack of this nature on a human. Souff

Excellent advice for anyone who rescues dogs, or is thinking of doing rescue. It is full of risk and you can stand to lose a lot if you don't do as stated above. Souff

That's the one! Will go far in life!

Somebody correct me if I am wrong and bring me up to speed ...... I have been under the impression for some time that is now rare for PUPPIES to be abandoned, found in a box by the roadside, etc. Kittens still get left in a box with a bricK, my sources tell me but it is not usually the case to find puppies in the box. I had assumed that this is now a rarer occurrence because pet shops will take young unvaccinated puppies and flog them for anyone who doesn't want to raise them for a few more weeks. I have had unwanted pups given to me as young as 3 weeks old (!) by disgusting twerps. Seems it is easier to give the responsibility to others than to abandon them in a box and that can only be a good thing if the pups end up in the right hands. So, from the minute I first read it, I found the notion of someone finding these pups to be very odd. Then, after "finding" these pups they handed them to carers to look after. How very noble. Had these noble "finders" later rocked up to my door, or sent somebody else along to do their dirty work, they would have been told to GO AWAY. They might have even been told that the pups were no longer here! Imagine that? Pups are GONE. Sold. All gone! No more left. Trespassing is a crime. If I have to tell somebody that they are trespassing because they are not welcome on my property, I will do just that. And if they dont leave, then I WILL call the police. I dont need to be a bully to deal with a bully, I am happy outsource that job to the cops. And if later asked by the police whose pups they were (if they did in fact find any pups here), I would tell them "MINE". They would then have to prove that they are NOT MINE. And puppies don't tell tales (docked or not docked). I would hope that anyone who is truly looking for the best interests of animals would do similarly, and yes, have some legal paperwork in place too! I am not going to go into details but rescue people are not all saints. Sorry Sunshiine, but that is human nature sometimes, even in rescue. Live and learn. I totally agree with what Lanabanana said. True animal carers will PROTECT the animals from bullies. I suppose that is because we know that if people bully other people, then they are likely to bully animals too. Hope your children can enjoy a nice puppy from a breeder who cares where their pups go. Souff

Oh Maryann, GET REAL! I literally cringe when I hear supposedly intelligent people from the animal welfare sector sprouting totally impractical ideas like this in the press! Try to implement something like this and you will have Cameraon Whatshisface from the Civil Liberties whatever sprouting off about how this can lead to invasion of privacy and discriminatory practices, blah blah blah. YOU DONT HAVE THE LAW ON YOUR SIDE MaryAnn, and you probably know this anyway. Steve Whan is right ... your idea is impractical and unnecessary. And it wont stop people doing cruel things to animals! When people hurt animals or other humans, they have made a choice to be cruel. They should be punished for making such a choice. If you want to help the animals, then target the justice system and tell them to lock the cruel bastards up, or better still, have the perpetrator receive the same kind of cruelty that they dished out to the animal. Barbaric? You bet. Bring it on and make the punishment a public spectacle! Cameron will be jumping up and down, but if you want to diminish crime to animals, teach by example. Make an example out of the perpetrators. The word will quickly spread that it is not a good idea to be cruel to animals in Australia. Take a leaf out of Singapore's book re littering. The public example bit works. Souff

I think the tail docking is a red herring. The OP thought having docked tails may have meant they were from another state. We know that is not correct. Sounds to me like they may have been cross-bred or BYB puppies the breeders couldn't sell or didn't want to raise, so they dumped them on rescue with a bogus story, then they did get a sale - so they went and got them back so they could make a buck on them. I guess getting better surrender documentation would help, but if someone threatened the foster carers it would not always be feasible to hold out, whatever the paperwork. The threats if serious enough should be a police matter. The other way to deal with it would to be much more selective about what pups the rescue accepts but as the OP notes that has its own issues. I agree it is a red herring and it is not relevant to the REAL problem. To the original poster, may I suggest that you contact one of the many terrier breeders about buying a puppy for your children. I would not be dealing with anyone who supposedly gave away puppies to somebody who bullied them. They are not acting in the animals best interests and there are better ways of dealing with bullies than giving in to them. Souff

Agreed. Not toxic to animals. Not palatable either!

I am more than a little flummoxed as to why tails have even been mentioned. Surely the most important parts here are that the OP was unable to proceed with the purchase of the 2 puppies that she had her heart set on, paid a deposit on, and had signed an application for? What the hell have tails got to do with it? Souff

OK, so you were going to adopt 2 Rough Coated JRT pups from an animal rescue place. Then a breeder phones you and says NO, you cant have them. Breeder sends some people round to tell the Animal Rescue place to hand them over. And the Animal Rescue place just handed them over? Now, why would they do that? Because they were threatened? Did the breeder prove to them that they were in fact the breeder's pups? They sound too young to have been microchipped. I smell a rat here and I suspect it could be living at the Animal Rescue place. Just out of interest, did the Animal Rescue place give you the name of this breeder? Souff Have just re-read the OP again and sorry, my mistake, it was not the breeder of the pups who took them back, it was " the person who supposedly found the abandoned pups". So what legal claim does this person have to ownership, and do they have the right to sell them? I doubt it. As I say, I smell a rat in all of this.

All can say is that I am really confused after reading this. I will have to read it again. Souff

Glad he has been found and returned to his owner. Lucky he did not get eaten! Souff

There are 10,000 walrus on an Alaskan beach .... perhaps he could volunteer to go round with a pooper scooper through that lot!

Can somebody write back to this clown and explain to him that we are all surrounded by beautiful birds in trees .... and they crap all over the place. Nobody picking up after the birds, oh no! If you are unfortunate enough to have a few Scrub Turkeys roosting in a tree over a path, then you need a rake and a bucket the next morning to collect all the fertiliser. And as for ducks and wild geese and black swans, as beautiful as they are, they are PROLIFIC CRAPPERS ..... asn there are THOUSANDS OF THEM RIGHT in THE WATERWAYS! Somebody please write and tell this doghater to get a life and go and start picking up bird poo if he wants to save the world. Watermelon! Souff

Really? I have just located no less than 15 INTERNET SITES of the RSPCA where the RSPCA are selling dogs and cats in Australia. No, I am not going to list them here, you can do the searches for yourself. I would stop "believing" the people you have been believing and start asking questions for yourself. Souff

If only the world had more people like you Fleuri. I have often thought of just walking away from the whole lot. Next time I feel like that I will dig out your post and read it. Thank you. Souff

Are you at home when the builders are working and the dogs are barking? Or are you not at home at those times and have been told about the barking? If you are at home then I suggest that you do some serious work with them, and if necessary, use an untrasonic training aid. Select a word that they respect and respond to and couple it with a little shot from the UTA. After a time every time they hear that word they will think "Uh oh, the ZAPPER is coming too!" and if they are really smart they will know that they only cop the zapper when they have been barking. If you are not at home when the barking is happening, then that is a whole other story, and you might need the dogs to be elsewhere while the builders are working. Most neighbourhoods these days will not tolerate continued barking, and do not want to hear the reasons. They just want the barking stopped. Souff

I would fast the greedy little pigs for 24 hours and let the enzymes do their work. Water only. If they appear unwell in this time, then most definitely go to the vet immediately. As they are already on a low fat diet the chances are good that they will have little go wrong, particularly if they shared it around. Probably will add some gloss to their coats ;) and fix any constipation, naughty girls! Souff

This type of thinking is COUNTERPRODUCTIVE. It does nothing to help the dogs. It does nothing to help the breeders of good dogs. It does nothing to help a member of the public find those who are breeding good dogs. It was a total load of crap and still is a total load of crap. This is exactly why I believe that instead of people talking about banning sites that advertisers of puppies use, FLOOD THOSE SITES with ads from REGISTERED BREEDERS and breed clubs of every type!!! Encourage Rescue places to advertise their dogs on those sites!!! Put the facts on those sites!!! Let the public make up their own mind and make their own choices. They will. The dog world can sit back and blame fascism and Hitler and Stalin and co now. Those claims are a joke. Much of this type of thinking came from the purebred dog world itself, trying to promote themselves as an elite bunch - better than the rest so they dont need to advertise "out there". They would have been far better off, long term, to float their boat of purebred dogs in the mass of advertising that confronts the public when they are looking to buy a dog. They would then have had a far wider opportunity to promote a better product and to educate the general public at the same time as to WHY the pedigrees of purebred dogs need to be registered - that pedigrees are the family history of dogs and that registered breeders are responsible for the future of dogs. Well, the chooks are now coming home to roost ..... so much for elitism. Souff

Toy Dog By NOT telling the public the TRUE FACTS ...... you, and those who are supporting and pushing Oscars Law, are MISLEADING THE PUBLIC. Steve has put the truth of the matter on here this morning. Not pretty ... but it is the truth about the matter Souff

This question needs to be directed to animal behaviourists and dog trainers. They are the people who ask the pet owners who are seeking help because their working dog/pet has driven them and their neighbours round the bend because the dog is bored witless and is probably not going to agility training etc. Pounds to peanuts, one of the first questions the owner will be asked will be something like: "Why did you buy this type of dog as a pet?" Souff

I am aware that other people have lives and what not, however it really should not take almost a week to answer my question considering it was only about their stance on registered ethical breeders and seeing how they already had stated that they were not opposed to them I would have thought that the answer would have been forthcoming very quickly. It also should not matter if I sent an email from a free email provider considering lots of people only use them. Manners is also a virtue, however it is one that is fading fast from this world --Lhok I just love how this is repeated over and over like u think your holding a cross up to a vampire? what on earth makes u think your not about to be tarred with the same brush as those in your own ranks you have decided are "unethical"?????? and are happy to stand by and see wiped from your "ethical" ranks? u all are members of the cc's,??? you all have registered dogs??? better get bigger brighter crosses mayhap? as i tried to explain earlier, your all the same critters. the lions doesnt care which antelope its herdmates think is ethical, or the antelope that thinks it is the epitime of ethical and so can cast the first stone on it decides are lower than life in the ranks, that antelop firmly believes it shouldnt be dinner but to the lion, its just the same as the rest of the potential dinners Asal, I laughed when I read your opening line, but you are absolutely right. There can be no difference when legislation is written. The words "ethical" or "unethical" will not be making an appearance. The people behind Oscars Law don't want breeders to be breeding or advertising dogs - full stop. The lion still wants the antelope for dinner - ethical or unethical antelope does not matter. The lion is the Animal Libbers ...... and the antelope is the Dog Breeders. They will just try to make it look like that is not the aim. Bigger, brighter crosses will give no protection to even the best of breeders. Thanks for the laugh though. Souff

Aah, yes they are. For the greater good apparently ...... Souff