Souff

My thoughts exactly. Legislation is a very expensive thing to introduce. It costs hundreds of thousands of dollars every time a small bill is introduced, or an amendment to a bill. If the existing laws are not being policed then it is a total waste of public money. Introducing new laws when the existing ones are not being used is also a total waste of public money. Souff

I have seen the size of the holes that some Golden Retrievers have dug - they are in the swimming pool class. My best suggestion is that you make a digging pit for her - rather like a child's sand pit but a bit bigger. Scold her if she digs anywhere else but let her dig freely in the digging pit. Diggers dont seem to outgrow the practice until their knees start getting sore and that could be some years away. Souff

Be the owner of a nuisance barker before you start hammering people about their dogs being unhappy. This owner has already stated what they have done and looked at the reasons why. Souff

I reckon I know who number one is Did you find out if you made the list? Nahh, whoever sent it, was too scared of me and wouldn't share or there's a fair chance the OP is a reincarnation and there never was one. Take your pick Reincarnations ... sadly you are probably right. Life is just too short to bother asking why people would bother! Too many better things to do.

Moselle, I strongly object to your assertions that those who kill their own meat are selfish. If they are the producers of the livestock and they are a qualified butcher, or have a qualified butcher handy, then they are entitled to produce meat for their own table. I now cordially ask you to pull your head in and stop passing opinions as to who is selfish and who is not! Souff

Oh no, not HENNY & PENNY !!!! :D

Oh, the back room and the freezer was probably already full

I suppose if the registered breeders wanted to be pro-active they could actually be the ones initiating the legislation, protecting their market and keeping their end covered at the same time. Now, that would be radical eh? Souff

Oh thanks for the invite Souff, lol...I'll have to have a look at my diary to see if I have a spare weekend sometime soon....and providing that you promise that I won't get my acrylic nails dirty or worse still....broken Actually, more important than the nails Moselle, is to plan to wear tight jeans. If you wear baggy pants that ferret might just run up the inside of the baggy pants when it comes out of the burrow .... and we will just be standing around having a good laugh. Souff

Yes, it is interesting. I must have lived as a gamekeeper in another century, this stuff always draws me to it like a magnet. Always has done, and probably always will do. Hey Moselle, wanna come ferreting sometime? Souff

Interesting...what does this "warranty" cover? You would have to be very careful as it could be open to abuse by certain types. But yes, certainly would take the shine off Pet Shop Puppies. That is for somebody else to work out, not me. Done my bit. Will now return to being the laundry slave and dog food maker. Souff

BRILLIANT suggestion, Souff! Except that they will also make Registered Breeders give a 10 year "warranty' and despite the best health checks, screenings etc. you CANNOT give a guarantee on the lifetime of any animal, nor should a breeder be expected to. No, no, this special deal in legislation is only to be for PET SHOPS. Breeders who sell from home and do not have the retail trade going past their door do not have the same selling advantages as pet shops you see, so breeders and their organisations must ask the nice men and women in parliament to exempt them from the warranty because it is just a HOBBY. This one is only for pet shops who have COMMERCIAL premises. Pet shops cannot say that they have a hobby, they have a retail business, and therein lies the difference. If I buy a used car from a car dealer, in many states of Australia the dealership legally has to give me a warranty on that car. If I buy a used car from the bloke around the corner, he does not have to give me a warranty because it is a private sale and I take the risk, not him. If the laws about warranties on used cars have changed again (cos I havent looked lately) then please let me know. Now, where are all those groups who want pet shops to stop selling puppies ........ Souff

So only men can shoot and fish? Sexist Moselle, sexist! The aim is always to kill the animal quickly and humanely. Not too many animals are killed in their own backyard anyway but Souff's beef farming rellies are qualified butchers with their own s/s butchery room and freezer room. I can almost taste the next roast beef and gravy meal there! Yum. With the home grown vegies on the side, washed down with a bottle of Mudgee red. Oh and yes, their womenfolk can well handle the gun on the foxes and they bring home venison occasionally. All very quick and clean. Those ladies do not mess around. They love animals and are registered breeders. If you are ever at the Royal Easter Show you could easily be chatting with them. But you can relax Moselle, they don't take their guns to the show! :D Souff

Oh well thats a relief. I was thinking it might have been a Pom. Souff just googled an overseas site for Poms and rather wished I hadnt. Amongst one stud dog's virtues was his "short back". Yes, I know short backs look very perky and keeps that big fluffy tail held high above, but as a stud dog? Oh well, there is always AI. I then came across this pic of a pom for sale: http://www.donedeal.ie/for-sale/dogs/1613513 Is it possible to cross a GR with a Pom by any chance? Surely there can be no way that this dog meets the breed standard? Too sad.

:D On which register?

Ferreting! This is one for the list next time I am in Vic! So they are still used as effective little rabbiters! I honestly have not given this a thought in years. Now that the bunnies are back in numbers and laughing at the scientists again, I suppose the ferrets are actually performing a very useful role again? One old bloke used to release the ferret from an old wheat bag, straight into a rabbit hole and the game was on! I will bet they have much more sophisticated gear these days, or is still the old wheat bag? Any photos? (they are probably somewhere in the thread already but lazy Souff hasnt looked!) Souff

Andisa, I am moist eyed and feeling very very tired after reading this. It IS hard work round the clock when Mum doesn't cooperate all that well, and from what I have seen, the smaller breeds can be notorious for this. Frankly I don't blame them for not being clucky, especially after a C-section after all that work through the contractions, only for the pup to get stuck. With their tiny bodies motherhood puts a huge strain on them too. Exhausting. Souff

baw haw haw After Souff pls!!

Thanks for the reply souff but if i want to reply a diffrent way i feel i can! To tell the truth i feel i have enough posts at the moment on this topic and im still looking into alot of the info and websites posted and i dont want to be felt pressured for a quick reply. I will reply from the first few posts first, then work my way down! I want to reasurch a few topics and return with answers later on. There is no time limit so im going to take my time, and do it at my own free will. But like i said, its time for me to get off the computer and go and enjoy the weekend, after a working week! Samantha Samantha, I don't care if you stand on your head in the bathtub, or really how you send your reply. But as others can learn from a two way conversation on a public forum. There have been some very memorable threads on DOL that have had a variety of views discussed without blood on the floor, but with some very diverse viewpoints being put forward. It is good to stand back and and look at things from somebody else's perspective. Hiding behind private answers is not the same at all. I am not going to bore you with some of the nightmare deliveries that I have seen in small breeds, but I will just say this. Breeding toy dogs can be a totally different experience to a litter of Border Collies being born. The advice that you have been given - to be mentored by a breeder of toy sized dogs - is excellent advice. The people who gave you that advice didnt hide behind PMs - they put it out there for the public to see because it is good advice for others too. Be brave, go public! Leave the twilight world of the PMers! We wont eat you. Promise! Souff

I cant find the post that I read before in this thread but it said something like "PP doesnt care about the consequences for the pup" . Well thank you, because in your words lies the answer to the problem. Next time anyone tries to get a government to ban the sale of cats and dogs in pet shops, CHANGE TACK! Instead of asking for a ban, ask governments to make legislation that makes all pets shops give a Ten Year Warranty on all pups and kittens sold. This will bring insurance companies to the door of pet shops, wanting to sell them specific packages of warranties. Nominated vet clinics will be named in such warranties and so they have a ten years or assured business. You wont be able to get pre-paid treatment at any old vet clinic, just the ones who are linked to the insurance company. Of course the prices of pets that are sold in pet shops with 10 year warranties will probably double overnight. Sorry about that. There is nothing like a major price hike to put people off buying something. Trade Practices Act should have no problem with any of this. It is no different to buying a car or a computer with an extended warranty, that you, the purchaser pay for when you buy the goods. Don't know why I never thought of this before. Pet shops will always sell pets in pet shops. That is how they make their money. Well, it is probably time to up the stakes for them and make pet shop puppies a whole lot more expensive to buy because they come with a warranty, and make insurance companies a whole lot richer too. If they are not selling as quickly, they wont need to be produced in such numbers by the puppy farmers and the puppy farmers might just have to find something else to do to make a buck. Souff

Samantha, as you posted on a public forum it would be really nice if you replied to some of the questions on the public forum. Look, if your little pup is going to be a tall adult and not fit the breed standard, then it is better to have her as a de-sexed pet and if you still want to breed, buy from a breeder whose dogs are tiny and do fit the breed standard. Many breeders have kept pups that didn't turn out to be the best example of the breed and were non-standard in some way. They can be found lolling around breeders home many years later as much loved de-sexed pets that were not used in any breeding programme. Thats how it is with dog breeding - we still love the non-standard ones but they stay at home and dont go to shows and are not bred from. If your bitch is tiny and is unlikely to weigh more than 2.5kgs as an adult, or if you think she wont, then either way it would be showing good manners to tell the people on here who have taken the trouble to answer your post in an honest and open way. Souff.

Is it outside standard? I'm not sure. The OP said it was a "tall Pomeranian", but I'm not sure if she meant taller than the standard, or at the tall end of the standard, if you see what I mean. Height is not used in the standard, just weight. However the upper weight is 2.5kgs for bitches. A 2.5kg canine is a tiny, tiny canine. If a 2.5kg bitch is tall as well, ..... well she is going to be a very strange looking Pom. I would suggest that if she were "tall", she will be substantially heavier than 2.5kgs and therefore outside of the breed standard. The OP has not mentioned the weight of the pup at this age. It would be interesting to know the current weight. As others have mentioned breeding tiny toy sized dogs is no walk in the park. It can be heartbreaking. Using larger specimens for breeding is a horrible practice because down the track those genes are going to turn up in the belly of a tiny innocent bitch who cannot possibly birth larger pups. Pomeranians were not meant to be tall, they were meant to be tiny. Souff

A breeder of Pomeranians might like to answer this: Is there anyone, other than the breeder of the pups which are from registered parents, who makes the decision about which register the puppies should go on? Is there any checking process on Pomeranian puppies before this decision is made? Genuine questions. Souff

Samantha, I am not hearing that you want to breed good quality puppies. I am hearing that you would breed because you have people who are interested in future puppies. An ethical breeder does not breed pups for that reason. From your description, I believe you have a pet quality puppy and unless your pet quality puppy grows up to match the breed standard, then no, I am sorry I do not think you should be breeding to supply your friends with puppies that will also probably not match the breed standard. Please think about the ethics that a good breeder should be using. Souff

So she was actually biting through skin? Not good Little feral .... wish I could have been there. It seems that neither the owner or the puppy trainer had their very big growly voice with them Another cute little fluffy that will probably never hear the word "No" or "Leave" or ever hear a sharp growly voice to correct her. Another one that knows it can sink the teeth in and get away with it. Well, I wont chuck out those pint-sized nylon muzzles after all, might need em again by the sounds of this. Souff