Rascalmyshadow

On 16/07/2018 at 5:34 PM, Bundyburger said:

Definitely. I've heard the no bones before too with one of them (maybe the same one, he was horrified i was still feeding chicken raw after the chicken neck thing) so maybe a training issue as the senior vets don't say no bones, just recommend caution with certain types and i know they have a lot of raw fed clients. 

Do you mind me asking which vets in particular you prefer to see there.

My first two visits were horrible both with the same vet, I specifically avoid her and will drive to Mornington if she’s the only one on, I have however very good faith in Kerrilee (I think that’s right) we have seen her on a number of occasions but the last time I checked she’s only there one day a week.

Just to add apologies to anyone if my posts seem too harsh I just word things to get straight to the point, not actually meaning to be as judgemental as they probably sound.

20 minutes ago, Bundyburger said:

 i suggest calling the clinic and passing on the feedback. They are very open to it and always looking to improve.  Maybe he was just having an off day and forgot.

Next time I’m in i’ll mention it, he was really nice and just new so I don’t want to create an issue for the poor guy.

As for the bones advice he’s certainly not the first vet that has told me the same thing, I do think he was a little nervous so I think that could be why he forget to check ears.

I was very polite to him and he did comment on how well maintained Hugo was.

1 hour ago, The Spotted Devil said:

The thing that’s “wrong” is that...

- vets have to be across multiple species

- vets have to be GPs, surgeons, radiologists, neurologists, geneticists, urologists, oncologists, behaviourists, nutritionists....etc etc 

- their patients bite and scratch more than the average

- vets aren’t subsidised by Medicare 

 

And....half the population bitches about what they charge. It’s like dog trainers and breeders. They’re supposed to do it out of the goodness of their hearts. (I do, by the way, but I have a “real” job to subsidise breeding and dog training). 

 

Sheesh. 

True and I have found a really good vet doesn’t always have to be right but will admit they don’t have the experience in a particular area and put you onto someone that does, instead of pretending like they know it all and give out the wrong advice or doing surgeries they aren’t competent in doing.

I don’t disagree it would be a very hard job and I don’t envy them.

55 minutes ago, karen15 said:

Rascal, that's not a vet issue, that's a bone lazy, cruel owner. Casual cruelty really irks me. The owner didn't mean for it to happen so somehow it's ok. I could never be a vet. That sort of owner would be the end of me.

 

There is no excuse for a dog to be matted and dirty between grooms. Laziness pure and simple. If they can brush their own hair, then owners can brush the long haired breeds they chose to purchase.

Totally agree but unfortunately that’s all too common, the biggest reason I gave up grooming after 23 years is because I was no longer coping with seeing so much constant neglect, my physical and mental health have suffered a lot from being so exposed to it all for so long, as much as I love dogs I will never work with them again.

I still have customers ringing/texting me (after not grooming for the last 18 months) to get info on feeding, skin problems, ear problems, etc etc because they don’t trust their vets to give them straight out knowledgeable answers, that’s telling me there is seriously something wrong with the industry.

Oh and I’m not having a shot at young vets, I actually thought this vet was very nice and I did like him I just think they need more varied education before advising their clients.

I lost track of the amount of times I groomed dogs straight after a vet consult and had to send them back into see a vet on pick up because they had missed things like infected ears, rotten teeth, curled dew claws, impacted anal glands etc. all because the check up wasn’t thorough enough, ok for me I have enough experience and I check my own dogs over properly every two weeks when they are bathed and groomed, however the average person in my experience doesn’t always notice when their dog has a problem.

Prime example, I had a client with a little Maltese, the first time I groomed it the owner thought it smelled so bad from being dirty and matted, as soon as I got near it I knew there was infection somewhere, poor little thing clipped off the matts on its face to find a hole straight through the bone, it had a tooth abscess so bad the bone above it was crumbling, dog had immediate surgery (didn’t even finish the groom) and ended up losing all but it’s four canines. 

39 minutes ago, Animal House said:

Did you ask the vet to look into his ears, I would have, just as a reminder if he didn't do it.

I absolutely agree with the horses whiskers @PossumCorner, its cruelty.

 

I had to go to the vets yesterday with my old girl, a general check up and review of her arthritis and to try new meds. My vet said he had a student who would check her over first, give him the notes and then my vet would come in to do a final assessment.

 

The vet student was fantastic, in his 5th year and did the most comprehensive vet check I've ever seen, explaining everything he was doing, asking questions about my old girls history (slow growing cancer, lump removed 2 years ago).  He even gave her hips a massage. We were having a chat and I asked him had he been bitten yet, he said no...and told me if you can read the dogs body language you get to know the signs well before you could cop a bite. He was really gentle and patient, and spent probably 15 mins on her, he's going to make a great vet. 

I didn’t ask him to check his ears because I know they are ok, I do expect when I’m paying $80+ for a consult that the vet checks all the basics without being asked.

35 minutes ago, sandgrubber said:

BFD = Big F'ing Deal.  Isn't as rude as it sounds when you spell it out.  

You are sure to be disappointed if you expect vets to know anything about breed specific grooming.  It's like expecting your GP to know about hairstyles.

Actually you are very rude from other posts it seems your not a very nice person, I don’t expect a vet to know breed specific clips but I’ve never met a vet yet that had no idea a poodle naturally had a hairy face, they aren’t exactly a rare breed.

25 minutes ago, PossumCorner said:

I'd have read that, if I'd overheard it, as a gentle sideswipe at people who needlessly shave dog's whiskers.  Many believe it a barbarism, that dogs absolutely need their whiskers, for identification of touched objects, for the comfort of that extra bit of sensory ability.  There are breeds of horses that have their whiskers shaved for cosmetic show-ring purposes, and it is an extremely cruel thing to do to a horse - they absolutely rely on whiskers which 'wire through' direct to the brain and are very important in contact and identification needs.

He asked looking very confused, it’s a little hard to shave a dogs face all over without taking off the whiskers, I don’t believe their is anything cruel about it. 

4 minutes ago, sandgrubber said:

The evidence based veterinary medicine crew is generally against fresh bones. See, eg http://skeptvet.com/Blog/2018/02/yet-another-study-shows-the-real-dangers-of-raw-diets-for-dogs/#comments

And references therein.

It's possible/likely that lack of positive evidence from controlled studies merely shows that big companies won't fund such studies (would be very expensive).

But I don't think one should be too hard on vets who believe what they read in the peer reviewed literature...more than they believe anecdotal evidence.  No question that a lot of dogs love bones...but that proves nothing and may bias owners' opinions.

As for not knowing that poodle whiskers get shaved...BFD.  I hope they have more important things to teach in vet school than breed cosmetics.

Not sure what BFD means but I would hope most vets should have some idea how most breeds naturally look, I knew that when I was a teenager.

IMO if you like your job you go above and beyond to educate yourself as much as possible especially when dealing with something living, learning just from a txt book is not good enough.

The biggest downfall to moving so far away has been losing my trusted vet,  so far I have found one very good vet in town but she only works one day a week.

Took Hugo to the local vets yesterday for an all over check up just to make sure he is all good before he meets his potential new owner.

Was a youngish new vet, quite nice, mostly checked him over although didn’t look in his ears at all (not too good being a poodle) then asked me the oddest question “why doesn’t he have any whiskers’ I was a little dumbfounded since his face is obviously shaved, had to explain this to him, also he doesn’t believe dogs should have bones and are better off with greenies and denta sticks, guess he hasn’t done his research into the blockages greenies have caused.

Oh how I wish vets would have more hands on and experience before they are put in position to treat people’s pets.

6 hours ago, sandgrubber said:

The Vet Board, in my experience (3 well formed, breathing puppies killed in a Cesarian) is biased in favor of the vet.

So what other options is there?

Hi sorry this has happened to you, if you really feel the vets haven’t done the right thing and they will not listen, or give out anymore information you can contact the vet board in your state and lodge a complaint.

It can be a long process and although it won’t bring your little one back it might help getting some closure.

I just want to say a big thankyou to animallover99 for sending my boys the most awesome home made treats, it is so nice to know there are such generous people around.

Here are a couple of pics of Rascal and Hugo waiting for another treat because they loved them so much, as you can see Hugo got a little over excited.

And they are so good that Theodore, my youngest cat had to share some as well.

Last night the boys enjoyed cooked chicken breast, eggs and veggies, they both gulped it down.

Off to a good start I seared a couple of pieces of the chicken frames I bought yesterday for their brekky, as I expected Hugo chewed it all up and Rascal looked at me like I was trying to feed him poison, wouldn’t go near it.

There is nothing wrong with asking for references, a lot of breeders ask for references from  their puppy buyers so it should go both ways.

I would look for another breeder, one that is more honest and approachable.

49 minutes ago, Tassie said:

I'm happy with frozen  Big Dog Barf patties .. my young BC girl is doing well on them .. 13.8 kg .. less than 1 patty a day (she does get a lot of training treats, and some other stuff in her Kong.

Down here in Hobart .. $21.50 for 3 kg box of Combo  up to $25 for Sensitive Skin (  12 patties) .  You can get different proteins .. fish rabbit etc. 

We have the original BARF not the Big Dog, in town.

I’m also a bit hesitant using the Big Dog brand as I know a bit of background about the company and it puts me off.

3 hours ago, animallover99 said:

Here is Dr Jean Dodds recommendation.

 

I just took the pic out.  Sorry I'm paranoid someone will sue me!

 

Clean & dry egg shells (I like to put them in oven for a few mins), grind them up to a fine powder. 1/2 teaspoon is equal to about 1000mg calcium. 

 

Oh, and her recommendation is 1000mg per day.

 

Thanks will try that.

So I went to get the rabbit, jeepers was a bit shocked when I asked the price, $18 each, the butcher near our old house used to charge $10 each.

I didn’t get the rabbit but I got chicken frames, I’ve cut them up and I’ll just put them in the fry pan for a min and hopefully that will encourage Rascal.

Tomorrow I’ll see what else I can source locally.

Oh and I’ll look into using the egg shells since we have so many, how do I work out how much to give them?

This was so much easier with big non fussy dogs.

1 hour ago, Christine_72 said:

My dog would rather bury his bones than chew/eat them. He's the first dog I've ever had that didn't LOVE bones! 

 

I either buy mince with the bones already ground up, or i hammer chicken necks and cut them up into tiny pieces and mix them in with his food, my cat also gets some.

Oh so I’m not the only one with a weird dog, Rascal will bury them and then stand guard against anything that comes near, cats, Hugo, chooks doesn’t matter, he’ll do that for hours even in the rain until I chuck it out.

Thanks I’m going to try that today, I have a couple of lamb hearts in the fridge so I’ll get I guess 1 rabbit and whatever liver they have and cook it all up with veggies, I can at least freeze it on small portions and add a little each night to their foods.

Funny you mention scrambled eggs because a couple of nights last week I gave them omelette with their dinner, we have 9 free range chooks (and two roosters) so there is always plenty of eggs to go round.

I’m also going to have a look and see if my food processor has a mincing blade, it’s got a whole range of fancy attachments so it just might.

Have you tried your dogs on rabbit?

We have a butcher in the next town that sells whole wild rabbits I was wondering if they are as rich as roo.

Hugo can’t seem to eat roo even cooked and in small amounts it makes him vomit.

Easing them into the pre made patties then slowly onto my home made stuff I think is probably a good option, Hugo is very sensitive to changing foods, Rascal isn’t so much of an issue.

55 minutes ago, Scrappi&Monty said:

You could just feed minced chicken frames (instead of whole ones, same difference.) 

We can by chicken mince w/ bone in for like $1/kg in a bulk bag from a local guy, perhaps you could find similar?

Chat to people in your area & you might be surprised; I thought there weren’t any raw suppliers around here but turns out there’s a Boerboel breeder around the block who sells raw!  

 

Otherwise the premixed stuff like Big Dog patties are all balanced with bone in. They’re really good, but the cost adds up if that’s all you’re feeding (unless dog is tiny.) 

 

 

edit: oh in your case BARF could be reasonably affordable for most of their diet. Probably barely need 1 patty a day per dog! And you can of course supplement with any other meaty bits as well.  

 

Edit: on the Big Dog website it says your dogs would barely need 1 patty a day between them so you’re in luck! 

The dog shop in town have the original Billinghurst patties, used them many years ago (before they were stocked in shops) with the standard poodles,cost me a fortune, would also give them stuffed chicken carcasses to make it a little cheaper.

At least my boys are little, we currently use Canidae dry and Ziwipeak tinned so if it’s no more expensive it will be ok.

46 minutes ago, animallover99 said:

Here it is!

 

 

Awesome thanks!

Have PM’ed you

24 minutes ago, animallover99 said:

If you were only mincing chicken necks or similar, a cheap kmart mincer would be more than adequate. Or a second hand moulinex or similar. The advantage you'd have there is that even if you did half/half mix of premade barf plus your own additions, you can control it a little more. Premade barf works out around $8/kg, and then if calculate 2% of your dogs' body weight to determine daily raw food weight (approximate). At least you get a rough idea of cost.

 

Something else you might not know.. a raw fed dogs' gut ph is around 2, as acidic as vinegar. But the stomach ph of a dog fed commercial food is much more alkaline,  so when initially starting on raw, they can vomit up bone,  because the stomach ph is still adjusting and cannot yet process big chunks of bone. 

(Theres a link somewhere on dol with a webinar by Dr Syme, I actually didn't know until I watched the webinar.)

 

I highly highly recommend reading "nutrigenomics" by Dr  Jean Dodds. Such an amazing book, and really gave me a new perspective on raw feeding, and feeding for optimum health.

 

And... incase you're not sick of hearing my voice Haha. It's not know on dol, but I have little side project of raw treat making, it's mostly just a way for me to 'give back' to pounds & rescues. But, since I had my dogs tested for food intolerences, most of the proteins I had been using are now off limits. I have a few bags left of my 'old recipes' which I would be happy to post you (complimentary), if you would like? They have ground Turkey necks in them.

Thank you I’ll see if I can get to Kmart over the weekend and I’ll have a look in the book store for the Jean Dodds book at the same time.

The dogs are both small (6kg and 4kg) so I’m hoping it won’t work out too expensive even if I have to use the BARF patties.

I would be happy to pay you something for your treats even if it’s just to cover postage, how do they get stored?

Oh and how does the webinar work, does it just play through you tube or similar, do you have to pay or sign up to anything.