jr_inoz

I thought I'd add my two cents worth to the discussion.

I am a new breeder - yet to have my first litter. I thought I'd fill you in on some of the things you may need to be prepared for.

My situation sounds similar to yours - I wanted a puppy from my chosen breed, had been researching for almost 18 months and when I had found a breeder I liked was asked by my breeder "for pet or for show?" I had no idea what this meant and asked. I then started attending shows and got hooked. I of course then asked for show. I was given a gorgeous girl, pick of her litter and of a nice type, who conforms to the standard. She hasn't been as successful in the ring as she would have been with someone else on the end of the lead, because I took a while to learn how to handle and how to train my girl. There weren't any show training classes I could attend nearby with my schedule. BUT - I love showing and you can get into it for not a lot of money. I bought a cheap, second hand trolley and the basics in grooming equipment. My breeder has been a wonderful mentor.

They encouraged me to breed my girl as she has lots to offer and offered their help and support. I read up lots about the subject and watched the raising of a few litters. I applied for and got my breeders prefix. My girl lost her first litter (resorbed) at around 6 weeks. There was no apparent reason for this loss. I had her tested for infections etc but results came back clear. I kept reading up about possible issues and wondered about stress in her pregnancy with a companion dog that had been staying with me at the time as a possible cause for the resorption. On the advice of two different vets and three different breeders, I mated her again on the next season, having done all the health checks again as she came in season. She lost this litter at 7.5 weeks - 10 days from her whelping date. (The other dog was not here during this pregnancy). This time she aborted them. This was heartbreaking. She lactated, and carried her toys around, put them on her bed, licked them, and cried because they wouldn't feed. This lasted two weeks. It was hard to watch. Whilst the vets (both who specialise in reproduction) say that she is fine (had bloods also sent to the US to check for some rarer conditions) and is capable of having a litter (we would try progesterone supplements next time) - I am not sure that I could handle this kind of stress and heartbreak again. If I do breed her, any puppies she has, if sold, would enable me to maybe, if she doesn't need a caesarean, to break even on vet costs over the three pregnancies. (In my breed litters of between 2 and 4 are normal). I, of course, don't want to sell every puppy - I want the best puppy to run on and show and join my household. Obviously I'm not breeding for the money - would have given up long ago if I was. Breeding can be heartbreaking and very expensive.

Having said all of that, if you have the support and help and the encouragement you need and believe your girl has something to offer the breed - welcome. I am one of those who are of the view that registered breeders need to stick together and help each other out. Head over to the breeders thread - you can read but not post there. You'll get lots of information about breeding and be able to read about lots of different issues.

I have a potentially very sad story - before microchipping.

When I found a staffy bitch once (again pre microchips)

Council registration of dogs....with tags to wear on collars... pre-date microchipping by decades.

ID disks on dogs' collars have been around since Adam was a chap.

I read where King Edward VII's dog, Caesar, had an ID tag which said, 'I'm the King's dog.' Even the king of England was prepared that his dog might get lost.

Was there any reason why the 2 dogs you've posted about, did not wear either or both registration tags and ID tag?

I don't have sympathy for owners who lack the foresight to imagine what might happen if their dog gets lost....without any form of identification. I have sympathy for the pets.

My girl is microchipped and wears a collar with ID when we go for a walk. (On a martingale, so not a tight collar). She does not wear one at home because of the worry of strangulation if she gets it caught on a fence or something.

I often wonder how often chips and pups are mixed up. I'm sure it must happen.

We came across it quite a lot Anne, normally with pups bought from pet stores. Pup 1 was given pup 2's details so both pups were chipped to the incorrect owners. Big mess

Sorry a bit off the original topic but - this could be a potential issue in the future. With compulsory microchipping coming in - I suspect that it would be a good thing for breeders to have a scanner to check that the right puppy goes to the right owner.

How are other breeders planning on handling this? Not so difficult in my breed with dogs having unique markings but in solid colour breeds, I would imagine this could be tricky.

I do know of people who bought a golden retriever puppy, from an interstate breeder. (Puppy not microchipped before being sent). They were very happy. Had her microchipped etc. Got a phone call from the breeder three days later saying that she had accidentally sent the wrong pup from the litter to them - that they had received her show potential pick of the litter, could they please send her back and be sent the correct one. The people said no - you sent us this puppy, we paid for her she is now ours. They got her desexed quite quickly. I felt for both parties in this situation. Suspect that microchipping will help stop this type of mix-up IF the breeder checks the microchip before the puppy is sent.

thanks for the responses guys . I had a Google of that weed and I cant say its something I have seen in our yard. The vet did mention the use of plastic bowls as being an irritant to some dogs but my guy also has a ceramic food and water dish. As I will be unable to get him back to the vets until Wednesday or Thursday is there anything in particular I can rub or spray onto the itchy areas to help him out a bit? I have some tea tree ointment at home which says it's for cuts burns and abbrassions so thought maybe that might help a bit but I can't find anything about it being safe for dogs to lick as it would be used around his chin area.

I know of a dog that developed a similar rash around his mouth from using a ceramic water bowl. It was the glaze on the bowl that was causing the problem. They did have more than one dog at home and he was the only one affected. They worked out that this was the problem when they were talking to someone else at their dog club that had the same issue - turns out it was the exact same ceramic bowl. They stopped using that bowl and the problem cleared up. (They did go to the vet and have treatment too - but it stopped getting worse and started clearing up after they stopped using the bowl).

Just a thought.

Pure aloe on the rash would be ok - would be fine for him to lick.

a sheltie, small, biddable, athletic, smart, great with other dogs .. never owned one just know a few and they are perfect small dogs. They need a bit of grooming but then all dogs do.

agree - very intelligent, loyal, small. great with people and others (speaking of the one I own and the others I've met). In regards to the grooming. A brush once a week is good. They stay remarkably clean - it is that double coat that seems to repel dirt (unless they've gone for a wade through mud as mine did the other day at the creek). They don't shed much at all if you brush them, until they drop their coat - (once a year for boys). At this stage - fur everywhere - BUT - if you brush frequently during this stage, then you tend to have less of it everywhere.

If you domt want a yapper i suggest you dont get a sheltie. There is a reason so many of them are debarked. Beautiful dogs but the barking drove me insane. I had an older sheltie foster for a year i swear he didnt shut up the entire time. Unbelievable.

I disagree. You can train them not to bark. My girl only barks when there are strangers around. Which I am happy about as it alerts me to what is going on. She will shut up when commanded. An older foster sheltie who hasn't been trained is going to be an issue. Trained from a puppy to do the right thing - no issues.

a bit off topic....

has anyone else received theirs through an ipad ap? I bought the last issue on my ipad - nice breed feature on my breed.

Not real happy with the quality of the print. It looks like it is a scan of a printed paper - or screen shot of a pdf file instead of a document for that ap. I found it hard to read.

Anyone else have this issue?

Was thinking about getting a 12 month subscription this way because it was cheaper but wont if this is the quality.

Ringbarka Kelpies - An ANKC registered breeder here in South Australia has kelpies that do well in the ring and also work stock well (all day too). It is always lovely to watch her dogs work stock when we go for lessons...

Also do your research ontheline and ask about bite and bark as some kelpies have that bred into them especially in the WKC, as good bite and bark are necessary for some working lines. Bark and bite can be a problem if not given a proper outlet so i'd stay away from those lines. But you can ask the breeder, they're normally proud of a dog with good bite and bark and will be happy to let you know. Good eye means that he has the ability to stare down a sheep, this takes focus, so good eye normally means a dog that's harder to refocus, but this can vary.

A bit off topic - but my little sheltie has "good eye" and can stare down sheep. (I'd add a photo to show it, but it is too far off topic for this thread...). She has great instinct, and if I knew what I was doing, she'd be further advanced. Not all ANKC lines of working dogs have had the instinct bred out. My girl is definite testament to that.

working:

Shetland Sheepdog

Puli

Border Collie

this is the current link....

http://www.dwidigita...?idProduct=2364

7D body only with Canon 1 year Warranty.... so figure not a grey import?

Yep - Still grey market. You have to send it back to DWI for repairs done under warranty.

sooooo very tempted!

this is the current link....

http://www.dwidigitalcameras.com.au/store/product.asp?idProduct=2364

7D body only with Canon 1 year Warranty.... so figure not a grey import?

Woot! I'll be a 7D owner soon too! I just bought it for my birthday (too bad I can't play with it till then), though not as cheap as the DWI site ($1197 today). Still it wasn't too shabby @ $1400 including shipping and tax.

A month ago I posted asking about which DSLR to buy, and, well this is the verdict. However... OH got a promotion at work and said I could buy my other choice as well after Christmas, so not only will I have upgraded my ancient 20D to the 7D, but will be the proud new owner of a 1D Mark IV

I am officially jealous!

IT ARRIVED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!

I am in

ANDi got the lens i have been wanting as well!

the EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS USM :cheer: :cheer: :cheer:

Now i need a new camera bag

Can you point me to a link for the 100-400mm lens??

I have been looking online - do DWI do grey imports or are they from canon? I noticed, at the moment that the camera is advertised (body only) for $1249 - best price anywhere, and it also has the standard 1 year Canon Warranty on the website. I've been chatting in a couple of stores and they are all saying that buying online means buying a grey import without a canon warranty. Can anyone clarify? I am soooo tempted you wouldn't believe it!

I agree with Souff, the service certificate is to certify that a service took place and should be signed straight away.

Those that wait to see if the bitch is in whelp, why wait? I would think it would be helpful to know if there are studs or bitches that are repeatedly not producing litters. If you are advertising a dog as a stud dog, people should be entitled to find out the dog's success rate.

It is dodgy to pretend a service didn't happen just because it wasn't successful.

Yep - cos I would imagine it would be frustrating, to find out after you have gone to the expense of shipping a bitch interstate to be mated to a stud dog, then have the bitch not fall pregant - and then find out that the said stud dog has not produced a single litter at all after numerous times used at stud.

That kind of information being available could save a breeder quite a bit of frustration, money and of course time...

sheltie zoomies are fun to watch. Especially the fluffy tail....

I don't have carpet at my place - she loves zoomies on the grass - but when we go to my dad's place, with the lounge and long hallway of carpet - she loves doing zoomies there. Must be the grip she can get.

I am after something that loves people and is happy to go for a run or relax on the couch (eg, if it's raining won't go stir crazy). I worry a little about dogs that are too bouncy (that's the reason I won't have another lab cos they're crazy puppies), my daughter is good with dogs, but she's still young.

shetland sheepdog ticks all of these boxes temperament wise and are very intelligent, eager to please and easy to train.

They are a little smaller than you are after - but the ones that are gorgeous but too big to show will probably be the right size for you.

If you want rare - go for a blue merle or a bi-black (there are a few around in the country.)

Is there anyone with experience using them on coated breeds whose coat doesn't lie flat? I'd love to try some of these but as my breed backcurls all along the topline I can't see how they wouldn't flatten and damp the coat down. Especially on the short models which would leave the croup dry and puffy in comparison...

The under chest straps are hard too with our very deep chests and heavy fringing... Are there many that don't go under the chest?

Maybe I'll have to stick to wet sheets hanging over the pens and crates!

my chamois type one is great for keeping my double coated dogs coat looking nice and level. I don't want to say 'flat' because it doesn't seem to flatten the coat, just keep all the hair in the right places. This coat comes in a "custom small" size which was perfect for my dog - covered the croup.

I certainly advocate debarking as a desirable alternative to euthanising, or causing a nuisance. But I did wonder, reading through the posts about people wanting to show dogs that had been de-barked, well it made me worried because well one thing I would not want is a dog that barked incessently for no acceptable reason. If someone has tried everything, but their dogs still bark, does that seem abnormal to anyone else? I'm not saying that dog doesn't deserve to live and have a good life as a pet, but should it been shown as an ideal example of the breed, or worse in my mind, bred from? I mean is there any breed that despite training and proper exercise and housing conditions where it would still be 'ok' and within the standard for it to be barking to the point where surgery and the removal of body parts would be necessary to make it 'normal'?

Some breeds are bred to bark to do their jobs.

Many Livestock Guardian breeds for example are bred to bark as a warning to predators that they are on duty. It is a trait that helps it do its job and is very typical of these types of breeds. This behaviour is perfectly normal and acceptable in a working or rural situation, but in a suburban situation is often 'misunderstood'. I have also found that in suburban situations where there is a lot more moving around 'out there' a LGD may bark a bit more than they would with a bit more space around them, because as far as they are concerned, there are a lot more 'potential predators' moving around their environment. Some dogs do bark more than others, and it can depend a lot on environmenal management, but I wouldn't 'mark down' an LGD because it barked a lot. I would be more likely to 'mark down' (from a potential breeding perspective) one that wasnt interested in barking and would be looking closer at its natural working ability (or possible lack of one).

Other breeds are also known for their barking. The Pumi for instance specifically states in its breed standard that it is 'rather noisy'

Shetland sheepdog is another - meant to warn of strangers about. My girl definitely does that. She only barks when there are people at the back fence - that she doesn't know.

There are also a couple of other reasons why people keep their Gr CH out in the ring these days....

One is the DOL point score.

Other reasons could be things like state club prizes. In my breed, there is a trophy for the top dog and top bitch each year. People like to win these as well.

I too am someone who has been lucky enough to handle a friend's Gr Ch to class in show level. Lots of fun and keeps me learning lots.

Crashing this thread.

My white chihuahua is a sunbaker too. Cant convince him to stay inside, he just wants to be out there improving his tan. Last year I used one which was increadibly thick and was terrible! Wouldnt spread on and then when I tried washing it off my hands, it just spread everywhere. Is there a thinner, easier to spread dog sunscreen available or are they mostly all like the thick one?

Yes - the plush puppy one.

here is a link to the plush puppy one.

http://www.plushpuppy.com.au/product.php?productid=63&cat=3&page=2

You should be able to get it at a dog show. (here in SA it is sold at the dog store at our dog show ground).

I use plush puppy sunscreen. I like it.

Not sure if it is just for the coat though

Merv took a wicket with the last ball of one over, the last wicket of the innings with the first ball of his next over & a wicket with his first ball of the next innings.

From memory, all wickets weren't even taken on the same day.

Edit.

It was a test match.

As for the R/U BIS thing.

While the specialty example is valid. In reality BIS speciality is akin to BOB. R/U BOB

It is within the realms of possibility, but highly improbable, that the R/U best at the Sydney Royal could beat 4,000+ dogs & still not be awarded any championship points.

Thanks for the explanation of Merv's hat trick - that makes sense.

With the RUBIS at Sydney Royal - I dont think it could be done as none of the RUBOB go through to compete at group - group is like at adelaide where it is BIG 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th - same for in show. (BIS, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th)

Championship Shows only.

maximum points available to be gained is 25 at any one show.

Challenge Dog is awarded 5 points for the challenge & one point for every exhibit over the age of 6 months including yours (babies don't count.

Bitch challenge same as the dog.

Best of breed is awarded one additional point for every exhibit from the opposite sex.

To gain max points from breed there would have to be at least 20 eligible entries

One point for each exhibit + 5 for the challenge.

If you win Best in Group your dog will be awarded additional points to the max if necessary.

Ditto Best in show.

Repeat. max points available at any show is 25.

100 points required to be made up to champion

The final 25 have to be obtained over the the age of 12 months.

Edit.

Total points gained will be recorded on the Best of Breed/Challenge Cerificate

Make sure you pick them up, they have to be produce when/if you apply for a championship certificate.

correct me if I'm wrong - but I think the ANKC just removed that aspect of the rule when they changed the grand title again? Or did I read that wrong somewhere?

I would think that would be a rare occurrence, if it has in fact ever happened.

I would think that would be a rare occurrence, if it has in fact ever happened.

Rare? Improbable?

Absolutely.

But possible.

just as getting a hat trick in cricket in three seperate overs is rare.

But it has been done.

Swervin' Mervin' did it for one.

Rare yes, but I have seen it at group level. RUBOB was also RUBIG for no challenge points I think.

Fill me in on how Merve Hughes did it. I can't work out the maths for this. I know he got one over two innings (he got the last wicket of the innings and then when he came on to bowl in the second innings he got another one on the first ball of his first over in that innings) I just can't work out how over three overs....

plastic drink bottle with the plastic ring bit where the lid screws on taken off to that she cant chew it. Put some small stones in there. It will rattle when she pushes it across the floor.

So you can't show debarked dogs? Learn something new every day!

Who would have thunk it huh.

I'm only new to showing (woohoo, first BOB last night :D ) but I've seen numerous dogs around the rings debarked. Not easy to hide if the dog was a barker, now making minimal noise with the distinctive sound.

Is it one of those things that isn't really enforced? If they sign the stat dec are they covered?

You're in NSW - I suspect it is like SA where debarking is not an issue. (Although there are quite a few vets who wont do it)

Debarked dogs allowed to do everything here (show, agility, obedience, go to the park - whatever)

The problem with breed specialty judges is they invariably have bias to toward the "types" they breed themselves.

Wouldn't say invariably myself. The ones who know a breed inside out and have done a genuine apprenticeship almost always acknowledge the virtues of the various types within a breed.

I agree that if they find an outstanding one of the type they prefer that one will go up - which I guess is only to be expected, if you prefer a certain thing and find an outstanding example of that then you're bound to favour it

This....

and it is certainly better than seeing a judge who doesn't know the breed well, (in a double coated breed) putting up the best groomed, trimmed dog, not the one that moves best or conforms best to type. It is interesting to see some of the dogs that will win challenge points at an all breeds show but can't even win their class under a breed specialist.

Wasn't there a case where a breeder was prosecuted for debarking dogs? I thought it was illegal unless all other avenues had been proven to have failed. It may be different in each State perhaps?

different in each state. Not an issue in SA

You will get in trouble in Vic if you send your dog to SA and get it de-barked there.

I am not sure what happens if you purchase an already de-barked dog and then take it to Vic.