Rappie

C4: Parvo, Distemper, Hepatitis, Parainfluenza C5: C4 + Bordatella bronchiseptica Serious problems related to intranasal vaccinations are news to me. Please let me know if there any scientific papers going around.

The onset of clinical signs of atopy falls between 6 months and 3 years of age in about 70% of dogs. It rarely occurs prior to 6 months, or later than 7 years. A young patient who has been on corticosteroids might show a false negative. However while I was working with a dermatologist, I do remember her saying that often even if a young dog IS allergic they may not react spectacularly to the intradermal skin test (the exact reasoning has slipped my mind). IMHO, if you've had the skin tests, and plan to repeat them at a later date there isn't a lot of point getting the IgE blood test done. This test has a higher incidence of false positives, and is generally a less sensitive test than intradermal skin testing - which is the gold standard. As for food trials, they're probably the hardest thing a pet owner can be asked to do At a minimum they should be 6 weeks, and might extend up to 12 weeks if the response is slow. It's always tricky if / when a dog is both food allergic AND atopic.

Agreed Cordelia. The term "contact" isn't restricted to direct nose-nose contact, it can include sharing the same air space. If the two dogs were in the same room together, that's a potential source of infection, just as if two dogs greeted each other while out on a walk. I think it's something hard to determine, and difficult to prevent, but it's not something that can really be sorted out on a forum. I don't suggest contacting the Vet Surgeon's Board for the purposes of finding fault or laying blame, but if you have a genuine concern - they are the people that can help, if they feel the situation warrants it.

It is usual for the consulting room table to be wiped down with disinfectant and for the vet to wash their hands between consultations. It would however be difficult, if the dogs are outside dogs and in contact with other dogs, to prove that it was the source of infection. If you are concerned by it, then you can call the Board of Veterinary Surgeon's and speak to them. They will let you know what they can and can't do. However, the outcome may just be them letting the veterinarian know that a concern was raised - and it sounds as though they are already aware of that.

Double post.

Unfortunately, although very uncommon, vaccinations can cause death in animals. However the risk of this occuring is VERY much lower than the risk of dying from the diseases that the vaccinations protect against (particularly parvo). That certainly isn't meant to suggest that situations in which it occurs are any less heartbreaking, but it is a risk. As to the original poster, request that the vet report the death to the vaccine manufacturer and the APVMA. The weight of an animal has no bearing on the amount of vaccine given. The vaccination dose is determined on the amount of antigen required to achieve an immune response and is the same for each individual in a given species. Raddy, I'd suggest that you discuss your concerns with your vet when you take your pup in.

The amount that your vet has prescribed.

Most of the clinics I was in last year charged around the $250 mark for a scale and polish, but not including any extractions. Some practices will be more, some less, sometimes vets do it, sometimes a nurse does it, sometimes it is done quickly, sometimes they let Rappie do it and she gets anal retentive and it takes a bit longer :rolleyes: A $400 dental would want to include fluids and a pre-anaesthetic blood panel. Of course, it depends on the patient as to what the final figure will be. Edit: Can't spell today to save myself.

Zayda beat me to it - I've been off in la-la land lately :rolleyes: Antibiotics and medicated wash will just treat the symptoms that showing at this time, but don't address the actual cause of the problem - which is likely to be an underlying allergy. I would assume that if there was one single inflamed lump that the vet has ruled out the possibility of there being a foreign body in there somewhere? If the dog is an inside dog that goes outside, then wiping him down with a damp towel, including feet, when he comes inside can help by removing a great deal of the surface allergens from the environments. If it is a recurring seasonal problem and you don't think it is well controlled then speak to your vet about a referral to a veterinary dermatologist for intradermal skin testing. It can be an expensive exercise, but you are more likely to get a workable solution. The IgE blood tests aren't as useful as the skin testing, however are often used as an alternative to referral by private practitioners. If there is the option for referral though, that is what I'd do.

Surgical removal of anal sacs should be a last ditch move. It certainly can be, and is done in cases with good reason, but usually after prolonged and serious problem. If it is "just" anal glands, then increasing fibre in the diet and having them emptied as needed by your vet (or yourself) is usually enough to keep benign problems under control.

This is the same situation for all intestinal worming tablets - the frequency of dosing is related to the life cycle of intestinal worms. The situation is the same with heartworm tablets - and in this case it is even more important that the dosing is done on time.

Sentinel Spectrum contain milbemycin( heartworm and intestinal worms), praziquantel (tapewormer) and lufenuron (the flea IGR).

Janelle - as an aside, I'm 3 days short of graduating with a BVSc. I've seen a number of clients on Cosequin etc, but would like to get up to speed with the nitty gritty during my down time before working. I wonder if it would be possible to get a copy of some technical information for the Nature Vet products?

I recommend both equally as heartworm preventatives that are "all in one" treatments, but the choice of product usually comes down to other owner / pet factors. If you have a current flea problem: Advocate Sentinel + topical flea treatment (ie. Frontline or Advantage) If you have a regular swimmer: Sentinel If you have trouble with tablets / any other reason that spot on would work better: Advocate + tapewormer 3 monthly. Thats just very briefly - if Advocate suits you, and you're happy giving a 3 monthly tablet then I see no reason that you should change.

Depends on the circumstances as the vet saw it, I suppose - it does sound awkward and unexpected but that may have been due to miscommunication. At work, whether or not rechecks are charged is at the discretion of the vet, but in general, if it is as involved as a normal consultation then a reduced fee is charged. If its simply to take sutures out, check on how a wound is healing, repeat and abdominal palpation etc - there is no charge. If the rechecks are for ongoing things such as repeat PCV's in IMHA then only the procedures are charged. I suppose, given these circumstances and considering that the discussion was about 20 mins (twice a normal consultation period in some practices) then its conceivable that a token consultation fee may be charged. That doesn't mean I agree with it, or I would do it, but I can see how it might have arisen. However, the circumstances in which MSJ arrived at the clinic didn't suggest that a fee was going to be charged - that probably should have been mentioned at some point prior. The other possibility is as I mentioned, where there might be a variable fee schedule for dispensing and prescription fees (like injection fees). Some practice have a different fee for things dispensed over the counter vs. in consultation. The consultation fee may be a way for them to justify charging a reduced price for the medication (the total cost for "short" consultation + medication being less than medication by itself).

Glad its mostly been cleared up for you As for still charging the consultation fee of $12.50 - thats less than we charge someone who comes a single short procedure (nail clip - its free with a consult, or anal sacs). It may be something to do with their prescription / dispensing charges also ie. its cheaper to get medication through a consult than buy it over the counter - we don't know, we're only speculating. As for everyone who always says that their vet does so and so, or never charges for something - just remember that you're getting a *good deal*. It's not the expected norm, it may be common, but its something that you are offered by the vets but probably shouldn't be entitled to receive. Does that make any sense? As for multi-vet practice, unless you have a financial binding to the practice (ie. a business partner) you just play by the rules or expect your butt to get roasted.

Puggles, I think you're talking about the trials that were being done to see if immunotherapy would help with FAD. The principle was the same as the allergy vaccines used to treat atopy - inject small amounts of the allergen (flea saliva) that the animal is sensitive to in order to desensitise them to it over time. Not sure that it is available any more, from memory, the results weren't as encouraging as expected - the did work for some dogs, but were being used in conjunction with very strict flea control and the success rate was lower than the 60-80% response seen in atopy treatment. The current recommendations are to treat fleas from multiple angles and be very strict. The topical treatments such as Frontline and Advantage tend to have kill rates of less than 100% by they time they make it to 28 days after application - it still perfectly reasonable for animals that are just itchy because they have fleas, rather than having full blown FAD. In those animals with FAD it is worthwhile upping the frequency of treatment to every 3 weeks, even every fortnight to ensure adequate kill rates. Also really important to try to treat their environment - need to prevent new infestation as well as killing anything that lives on the dogs and cats.

The difference between supermarket brands and the premium brands is the quality of the ingredients that go into them. Although all the foods will meet the minimum AAFCO guidelines, some foods do it quite crudely. If you look at the ingredients list, the premium foods have more actual meat products at the top of the list, while the cheaper brands with have cereal, meat meals and by products as the primary ingredients. You'll generally also find that the premium brands have life stage diets - like puppy, adult, senior, weight management etc, rather than a choice of puppy or adult. The quality and composition are more consistent also. If fed in appropriate amounts, the premium foods will result in smaller, firmer poos as the ingredients are more digestible and less of the original food is excreted as waste (as compared to cheaper foods with higher amounts of "bulk" in them). Once you start comparing the premium brands there aren't a lot of glaring differences except in the aims of companies (ie. Hills run their Science Diet and Prescription lines, Euk does a lot of breed size specific, Eagle Pack etc cater for the natural feeders....). Eukanuba and Iams are produced by the same company, Iams is a premium, Eukanuba is "super premium". Nearly everyone you ask will have a different preference, but most of the companies have sample packs available or sell small size bags so you can pick and choose as you see fit.

For a 6kg dog: Eukanuba $17 every 8 weeks - $2.20 / week Chews $7 for a box, lasts about 2-3 weeks- $2.50 / week. I buy chicken necks when they have them at Woolies - $1 / week = $5.70/week He always ends up with a bit of our food, if he gets too much he just doesn't get as much next time.

For a skin infection like one Molly is displaying, I would put a dog on a course of antibiotics that lasted for at 3 weeks. They really need to be given until the skin clears up entirely, because you need to control the infection from the very basal layers of the skin and it takes time for the skin cells to mature, migrate and slough off as dead cells. If the Noroclav wasn't being magical, there is another similar antibiotic (the Rilexine that Mita mentioned) that can be used that is possibly better for skin conditions. I'm guessing from what you have said that the injection was cortisone, to help relieve the inflammation and itching associated with the allergy. It's not ideal as a long term treatment without investigating causes, but you could ask your vet about using antihistamines to try to help relieve the itch. You could also try a essential fatty acid supplement - Megaderm is a commerical one, or canned fish (tuna or salmon), or fish oil capsules. Are the cats treated for fleas as well? It can be a pain, but if the cats and the dogs are sharing any of the same areas, the cats should be treated as well, even if they don't appear to be carrying fleas. If it is solely a flea allergy, it will only take one bite to start it off, and once there is dermatitis - that itches just as much by itself. If this first line treatment doesn't seem to have much effect, I would consider the possibility of a food allergy and speak to the vet about doing a food trial. Food trials are probably the hardest thing you can ask a pet owner to do - I would usually recommend starting with a commercial food like Z/d and feeding that, and only that for at least 6 weeks (z/d is a prescription food - so you need to speak to your vet). If you see an improvement, then a food allergy is likely - from there you can spend some time working out what to feed by introducing her normal diet etc to see what effect is has on her skin. Although chicken has shorter chain proteins than beef and lamb, they are all common culprits for food allergies, allergies to gluten, preservatives etc occur, but are less common than the "Big 3" meats. If a food trial doesn't help, atopic dermatitis could be another possibility - unfortunately its often hard to pinpoint and definitive diagnosis requires intradermal skin testing to be done by a veterinary dermatologist. All that said, see if you can get some more antibiotics and continue with a medicated shampoo, try a moisturising leave in conditioner and keep up with really strict flea control. Deal with the easy solutions first and see how you go.

I'm sorry that I have more questions than answers, but I hope it ends up being helpful.... How long is the course of antibiotics? What was the injection that she was given? You mentioned that Molly doesn't like the cats - are they inside only, or do they go outside? Are there any animals in neighbouring houses? Do treat Harvey monthly for fleas as well, or is he only on Sentinel? What does Molly eat normally? Just looking at the photos you have posted I would suggest (if you aren't already) using an antibacterial shampoo such as Pyohex to help with the skin infection that is going on (which is certainly deep enough to warrant a long course antibiotics) and some kind of soothing leave in conditioner such as Aloveen.

Unfortunately, there isn't always a whole lot to hear. I recently saw a dog in acute congestive failure of the left and right side of the heart - the recent history suggested that it had only been going on for a week. The only change the owners perceived that they had seen was a swollen abdomen - however after taking a very deep and thorough history it became evident that it had probably been brewing slowly for a couple of months. There was a questionable heart murmur - I thought I heard it in the consult but wasn't sure, I borrowed the dog and took it to the treatment room where it was much quieter and myself and 2 other vets couldn't agree on whether there actually was a murmur - despite there obviously being a cardiac problem. The problem with heart murmurs and chest auscultation is that you are hearing a sound that is the product of a defect of some kind. The smallest and least significant defects often produce the loudest noises, often something quite sinister doesn't make any significant sound. Even if I heard a low grade murmur in a small breed dog of 11 years old, I wouldn't jump right into diagnostic work unless the dog was showing clinical signs or there was something that concerned me in the history. As for whether the first vet was responsible - that IS a very big accusation and not one that I think you can prove.

Note to all vet students - consider forums to be absolutely chock full of potential clients waiting to be shown respect for their own knowledge, so that they can respect you for yours.........

In situations where there is an actual flea problem (rather than occasional fleas, or where flea treatments are simply for prevention) you need to try to hit the fleas from multiple angles. In a situation like this, I wouldn't recommend flea rinses as being most effective - you really need a product with an insect growth regulator. Yes, flea rinses kill fleas, but they have no considerable residual effect - meaning that while you kill the fleas currently on the dog, you are doing nothing to prevent re-infestation. To use an analogy from a seminar I went to - pets in the house are both walking mops, and walking salt shakers. You need to utilise their ability to be a "mop" - that means that if you have fleas in the house, but the dogs / cats are outside, you need to get the animal inside unless YOU want to be the next meal. If you treat the pets with an effective, residual (spot-on) treatment you will ideally kill the fleas that transfer from environment to pet before they lay eggs. You need to understand the "salt shaker" effect - everywhere a pet with fleas goes, it will leave flea eggs, and its own hair. You want the fleas to not be able to hatch, you want "treated" hair to fall off the pet where the flea eggs are. Depending on the environment, the flea eggs may not hatch for over 6 weeks - hence the absolute need for continuity of treatment, and why flea problems often get worse before they get better. A hot day after some rain can set off a wave of hatching eggs just when you thought things were under control. It wont go away until all the eggs are hatched, and all the adults are dead. When a product says treat ALL animals, you should treat ALL animals - dogs, cats, rabbits - fleas or not. If one animal has fleas, you should consider them all to have fleas. You might have the best flea control, but a stray cat that wanders over your fence might be continuing the problem.

Lol, probably Patrick or Lan then. Both good friends ;)