Quickasyoucan

Not sure how clear this will be as am on unfamiliar computer. This is the first meeting between the HWV and the welsh springer. Holly the HWV does not have much coat atm. In the pic she is around 12 weeks, no beard in sight! Should add both are pets, george probably doesn't have the greatest conformation in the world though he has a fab temperament. Gives you an idea of the coat au naturel though!

Am currently in the uk and have just walked my dad's welsh springer, George. Don't know about lines in Australia but George is not what I would call drivey. He is a bit birdy but but would have nowhere near the drive of my stafford x or the intensity I would think you would be looking for for TID. He also has a lot of coat, feet need constant attention, ears, etc, much more coat than a Brittany. We grew up with welshies, they are great dogs but in the UK here you do need to be aware of lines re temperament. We did have one bitch who was not trustworthy with kids. Dads current dog is fantastic, but George reminds me of goofy. They are smaller dogs (slightly) than ESS. Steve Austin does a lot of work with working line ESS. I have seen a couple of videos with dogs he has taken to Macquarie Island for the rabbit eradication program. They are very drivey though, he did say in a talk they wouldn't be good pets. I know you want them to be drivey and have done great things with Daisy in TID, but do you want that drivey ie they could be comparable to working line Mal in drive if they are true working lines. I loved the look of them, smaller and much less coat than the show line, but very very busy. My sister in UK has a 5 month old HWV. She is beautiful, very confident, very bouncey I think she has a good level of drive (some of her sibling have gone to working homes), but I would have her if I could . Not many HWV's in Australia, though. Having met Penny who is one of the first bitches in Australia (a Silvanus import from the UK) she is a lovely dog and not huge. They would be a consideration for me if I was considering dog sports. Sorry can't remember if you discounted HWV's? So better stop rabbiting on

Sorry that's what you get for not reading posts clearly . I am an idiot. I should have said medium dog. She is very underweight by the looks of the pic though. Who knows with a real crossbreed, I think it is only really useful if you have a dog that is a clear mix of one or two breeds. I am pretty sure these people are the same people who do DNA profiling on purebreeds, this is just a lucrative sideline! I don't think this is aimed at the DD mob btw more at people who have crossbreeds of unknown origin who are curious. DD people are proud to tell you their dog is a proper "breed" not bitsa testing needed. Should just add she is very very cute and I love the pice with the danes.

My only worry with flat collars is dogs backing out of them. Maybe my dog has a small head but he has backed out of a flat collar a few times. Maybe I had it too loose. We use a martingale if we are out walking. Since I actually bothered to teach a loose lead walk a few years ago (yes I was lazy) he doesn't very often need a correction. Before that we had a harness and he used it to gain extra traction in his pulling

I was thinking about this a lot overnight. I have no problem with calling a spade a spade and I will not protect the reputation of any individual dog regardless of breed that has actually done something. If a neighbour moved in next door to me and their dog started digging under the fences and attacking mine, I would be reporting them to council, whether they had a stafford, a mini poodle or a chihuahua. I reported the cat that attacked my dog and did $120 worth of damage to his ear. But what the OP's post did is assume that (1) the dogs because they were staffords or 'staffies' would be dog aggressive (yes they might be but they might not be either) AND (2) that because the owners owned staffies they wouldn't be responsible and keep their dog in. That is an awful lot of assumptions. I agree that people need to be honest and upfront about the pros and cons of their breed. We could set out a list here of breeds that have the potential to be DA and those that are wary of strangers; those that have the potential to be boisterously over friendly and those that have the potential to be escape artists and it would be a long list I assure you that spanned many breed groups. I think what responsible stafford owners object to is the assumption that because their dog is a stafford it will automatically be a vicious dog killing machine. That's pretty much not fair on the responsible dog owner who has done everything they can to make sure their dog is a good canine citizen and has chosen their breed of dog for the right reasons. As an anecdote, my brother is not white (he is adopted). When we were young he used to get stopped by the police asking whether he had stolen the bike he was riding or the car he was driving or whether he had a police record that never once happened to his 3 white sisters. Of the four of us he is probably the least likely to pick a fight (they don't call girls bitches for nothing ), but the assumption is that because he is not white that he would be a criminal. Statistically he might fit the profile since there are an awful lot of black people in prison in the US and I don't doubt in the Uk, but I don't think anyone reasonable would think that was fair. He is a just a normal bloke with a good job who happens to be coloured. There are responsible owners with well behaved staffords out there. Just because someone is black or a stafford doesn't automatically make them bad. I guess what I am trying to say is there is a fine line between realism and prejudice.

The key issue of course is that many breeds have the potential to be troublesome in the wrong hands. Lack of effective control and failure to socialise and train are often triggers but uncontrolled dogs manifest different undesireable behaviours and some of those behaviours are more common to a breed than others. That truism is 'breed bashing' according to some. Those who comment on the undesirable characteristics of some breeds are bullies whose opinions apparently dominate this forum although ironically most of the rudeness and personal insults are thrown by those "defending their breed". Get real people. Breeds were developed to make some characteristics more common. Some of those characteristics in the hands of the wrong owners make some breeds royal pains in the arse. Noting that doesn't mean you hate the breed. PF I agree, but the point I am trying to make was said neighbours and said dogs have not even been sighted yet so we don't even know what their behaviour will be. So there needs to be some realism rather than prejudice.

Great post deelee. Yip, certain breeds have certain tendencies, we shouldn't hide from this fact and call it "breed bashing". I don't let my dogs play with any strange dogs that neither I nor they could take care of. Given that they're mini schnauzers, that rules a lot of dogs out! Actually I think it is less breed bashing more the fact that because they are staffords or staffies there is likely to be trouble AND that the owners are less likely to keep them in because they are stafford owners. I love staffords but I know they have potential to be DA, does that necesarily mean that the ones next door are going to be DA or that they are going to climb over and kill the scottie? How about giving people (not dogs) the benefit of the doubt that they are going to be reasonable neighbours until proven otherwise. DeeLee I know you had a bad experience with yoru previous rescue but not all stafford rescues are like that. A while ago you were posting about your golden retriever rushing people and other dogs. There are plenty of DA and HA goldens around. I have met a couple and know a vet who says the worst dogs they have to treat are goldens and labs because people assume they are going to be okay. How would you feel if I started a thread saying there were goldens moving in next door and (before I had even met them) I feared for my dogs life??? There is breed honesty and there is catastrophising. The OP's opening gambit smacked of catastrophising. If she had said my neighbour has moved in next door with two DA staffords what do I do no-one would have accused anyone of breed bashing, but she hasn't even met said dogs or said neighbours. I wasn't objecting to people talking honestly about the potential for staffords to be DA I was saying how about waiting to see what these people are like, there is a very big difference. Interesting that some people say they are opposed to BSL but post here with views that seem very contrary to being anti-BSL. Of course breeds have their individual characteristics, but we also need to assess each indivitual canine on how it actually behaves. Ask any behaviourist what is the most dangerous breed of dog and I am sure they will tell you that focussing on breed takes away from the many factors that cause a dog to be dangerous. And again lets not forget that these dogs have not yet even moved in nor has the OP met the neighbours. As Roo said I wouldn't care if an elephant moved in next door, so long as once they had moved in the neighbours turned out to be reasonable.

Great post deelee. Yip, certain breeds have certain tendencies, we shouldn't hide from this fact and call it "breed bashing". I don't let my dogs play with any strange dogs that neither I nor they could take care of. Given that they're mini schnauzers, that rules a lot of dogs out! Actually I think it is less breed bashing more the fact that because they are staffords or staffies there is likely to be trouble AND that the owners are less likely to keep them in because they are stafford owners. I love staffords but I know they have potential to be DA, does that necesarily mean that the ones next door are going to be DA or that they are going to climb over and kill the scottie? How about giving people (not dogs) the benefit of the doubt that they are going to be reasonable neighbours until proven otherwise. DeeLee I know you had a bad experience with yoru previous rescue but not all stafford rescues are like that. A while ago you were posting about your golden retriever rushing people and other dogs. There are plenty of DA and HA goldens around. I have met a couple and know a vet who says the worst dogs they have to treat are goldens and labs because people assume they are going to be okay. How would you feel if I started a thread saying there were goldens moving in next door and (before I had even met them) I feared for my dogs life??? There is breed honesty and there is catastrophising. The OP's opening gambit smacked of catastrophising. If she had said my neighbour has moved in next door with two DA staffords what do I do no-one would have accused anyone of breed bashing, but she hasn't even met said dogs or said neighbours. I wasn't objecting to people bashing staffords I was saying how about waiting to see what these people are like, there is a very big difference.

that is a mostly rotty? hehehe.... I have to say, with every other breed in her ancestry - I am devastated that shetland sheepdog wasn't there... My understanding is that it gives you the figure for every breed, so that you can eliminate those under xxx as not being in there, it doesn't mean that you have every breed in there. If she is a large mixed breed (which she looks like she will be) there is a good chance that the only significant breed was rottie. I did the bitsa on my dog came back what I expected, secondary staffordshire bull terrier and secondary border collie. I knew my boy would be some sort of herding breed x (because of his looks and behaviours), I thought kelpie but BC is definitely not beyond the bounds of possibility for him. And no I don't work for the company

What ever happened to innocent until proven guilty. I own a stafford x and have a purebred next to me and a cocker, cattle dog and beagles in the near vicinity. The only dog that there have been complaints about is the cocker (barking and biting a neighbour). We all have personal experiences with dogs which could colour our views. My own dog has been attacked twice on lead once by a GSD and once by a cat (unprovoked and the cat did the most damage), yet I wouldn't be worried if a GSD was moving in. You need to wait and see what happens before you judge.

I agree with Staranais. To me (apart from the fact that the one veterinary behaviourist i know about is about 3 times the price of a non-veterinary one per session ) it is a bit like the difference between a psychiatrist and a psychologist. Both deal with mental health issues, but only one can prescribe medication (and yes I am well aware these are both nationally recognised professions). Besides I know plenty of people who only call themselves trainers and who would refer to a behaviourist rather than deal with issues that they didn't consider themselves capable of doing. That is what any good professional would do (nationally recognised or no) Anyway there are some dodgy doctors, vets, teachers as there are in any type of profession that is not the preserve of the "behaviourist", that is mankind unfortunately. I don't think because there are some well-known franchises that may claim to deal with behaviour problems that we should throw all non-veterinary behaviourists out "with the bathwater".

I actually put my mattress on the floor and put Jake in there whilst I was out. I kept the blinds closed and the window slightly open. He was fine in there and it was peaceful. Also meant he could be in with me at night (you are okay as Kaos is crate trained), but Jake tends to get on and off the bed normally. It was actually worse when I was home as he wanted to do things with me and follow me around. I agree with not using the puppy pen. I had my sister's really sturdy baby pen (about 80 cm high) he was looking at jumping out of that after the first couple of weeks, hence keeping him on the lead. Jake had his op Wednesday and I did exactly what you suggest, picked him up Friday night so we had 2 days to get a routine going at the weekend. Also Jake seems to get nauseous and upset stomach generally from the anaesthetic so it was nice to know he was being looked after in that first 24 hours. Good luck. the first 2 weeks seemed to go slow but after that it really is okay.

Teebs, my boy Jake stafford x something had a TPLO operation at Sydney Uni Vet Hospital (one of the cruciate operation options) nearly 10 weeks ago. With the TPLO they like to get them up walking (with a towel under the belly for support) within a day of the operation. My boy was in hospital for 2 days after the op, as they are on heavy pain meds for the first 24 hours. He came home with a fentanyl patch (pain relief) and I was told to hot pack the leg if there was swelling. He was walking on it gingerly by the time I picked him up with a towel under his belly in case he slipped. My instructions were to confine him to a pen or small room for 8 weeks with toilet breaks on lead 5 mins 3 times per day. No steps, no jumping and no playing with other dogs. The op is amazing as by the end of week one he was really using the leg well and that is when you need to make sure you keep them quiet. I went from taking him slowly across the road to toilet on the grass (my back yard does not have lawn) to short walks up and down the street and by the end of week 6 we used to do a 5-10 minute walk around the block on lead. We had a few uh oh moments as he jumped out of his pen at the end of week 2, so I resorted to having him with me on the lead when he was inside as well (he is not properly crate trained and will not stay there for long periods of time). The specialist did say to me they prefer a pen to a crate as they do need to get up and move around. But if you have access to a big crate I am sure that would be okay. We had follow up x-rays at 8 weeks and all had healed (despite those oops moments when he would do quick zoomies or occasionally jump on the lounge ) extremely well. We are now building up on lead walks and he is unrestricted at home but is not allowed to play ball or go to off leash parks for another month and a half, not because of danger to the bone but the risk of soft tissue injury as the muscles etc do weaken due to lack of exercise. I might add he is a mad ball player so I can see why they said that as it is probably how he hurt it in the first place. Really I found the first 2 weeks (before the stitches came out and whilst the wound was fresh) the most difficult, after that (and my boy is a bit of a loon) it was relatively easy. Hope this helps.

I would think legally the only thing that would get you in hot water would be calling yourself a veterinary behaviourist when you aren't one, same as if you called yourself a vet when you weren't one. Since there is no nationalregulation of the profession of behaviourist (without the "vet" bit) then then behaviourists would be in the same position as a trainer legally speaking in that I guess they have to worry about their public liability not misrepresentation claims. What is interesting, though, is that you can be appointed by a governmental body as an approved behavioural assessor when it comes to dangerous dog legislation and I know for sure all the people who are approved assesors are not veterinary behaviourists. Back to the original topic, personal recommendations and my own personal experience. I found it invaluable to do a general seminar with the person to whom I entrusted my dog.

I use zogoflex huck with my ball destroyer. Also the constant wearing down of his teeth from the tennis balls has stopped, which is great. I love my balls (!) so much I made my brother in law climb down the rocks into the bush below their house when one of his kids threw the ball over their fence and he is afraid of creepy crawlies...

Nice as the queen is (and I can say this because I am originally British ) she hasn't produced great human stock herself, so I am not sure about her human "planned matings" Wouldn't be surprised if there were still a few mentally subnormal royals hidden away somewhere just like the good ol days.

I am with Medibank Private, I like that they pay 100% of cost (after deduction of excess). They have paid within 5 days of me submitting claims. Their gold paw cover also gives you back approximately $165 towards preventative care or alternative treatments, I have claimed for a dog training seminar, physiotherapy, worming, and an amount towards vaccinations under the "preventative" label. No rise in my premium on renewal this year (after a claim for several thousand dollars) and no new exclusions. Very happy so far. Pays to read the PDS closely though and be aware what you are signing up to with any insurance provider. Note that skin is often regarded as one condition (regardless of what is wrong with the skin), so is cancer, and bilateral conditions are also treated as one eg cruciates, luxating patellas. That should put you in the picture for exactly what you will and won't be covered for.

I bought one for my stafford x a few years back. Couldn't get the hang of it either, didn't seem to work and slipped a lot. Didn't stop the pulling either. It is in the bottom of my dog box somewhere. I think mine was a gentle leader too. We now walk on a martingale, works great for us. I don't consider myself skilled or that I have great timing, but I actually think it is pretty easy to get the hang of.

What is the law in Victoria on pitbull x's can they get a NOI and have the pup temperament tested, ie take the initiative? Or is does it not matter in Vic whether it is full pittbull or x? Hopefully someone will know. I know some people here in NSW have had sucess with getting rescues temp tested under a NOI and that then removes the fear of being declared restricted. However, I do not know what the law in Vic is.

Im in the responsible dog owners one but but I would like to do this one too, I think there is a lot of cross-over between the two

Sounds just like me, except I was never dog aggressive pre-medication :rolleyes:

Wow, thanks for that explanation raineth and Aidan...raineth I hope you don't mind if I cut/paste it for future reference ;) When you say the "connection can be weakened", this would be the dog regressing due to lack of regular exposure...because the brain no longer needs to fire the necessary neurons....is this correct? Hi Kelpie-i, uou can use it- but really its just my musings on the subject and should be taken with a grain of salt when i spoke about connections being weakened I was more talking about the original connection (associated with the presence of another dog = fear and aggressive beahviour). So what the training is doing is a kind of re-wiring of circuits. A desensitisation program should re-wire the brain so that (like Aidan said) the dog can feel safe in the presence of another dog; in doing this the circuit that says 'other dog = fear' is not active and can eventually go through "long term depression" (which is the opposite of long term potentiation). As far as I know it is similar because it is all about neuroplasticity. But the difference is that in a really young animal plasticity is going on throughout all regions in the brain. Once the animal is older plasticity mainly only occurs in the hippocampal formation. I can't quite remember but I think there might be a couple of other areas it can occur, but the hippocampal formation is the major one. the hippocampal formation plays a major role in learning and memory. I should also ass that when I say 'animal' I don't really kinow if that occurs in every animal - I'm only going off the animals that the researchers have used anyway, all of that above is still just my musings and should be taken witha grain of salt as well its just a topic I find really interesting! I find it really interesting too, especially since I suffer from anxiety. I always thing of it as forging new neural pathways and weakening old ones, but I think (both with animals and humans) there is always the danger of falling back onto the old pathway, it never totally goes away. The only thing I would add about the use of drugs is that part of the reason drugs are used to treat anxiety (in humans) is because research has shown that people with depression/anxiety do not have normal chemical reactions in their brains (being general as I can't remember if the serotonin is taken up too fast or not fast enough and there is a lot more to it than that that I also can't remember right now ). So, not talking about this particular case, but in general I think there would always be a place for drug therapy with behavioural therapy if it was proven that a dog had an actual chemical imbalance that was causing it to behave the way it was. This talking about a minority of cases not a majority.

Neither my sister nor my mum are really into dogs, but my sister is really into kids so since her kids are allowed in my house, my dog is allowed in hers Actually she has watched him for me a few times and commented he is much better behaved than her kids. ;) My mum and dad have been married for nearly 45 years. Mum really isn't into dogs, but dad wouldn't be without them. They are in the Uk so no question about inside or out, as most dogs (bar working) would be inside. However, dogs are not allowed on couches or beds which I think is a fair compromise. I have met a couple of men who I knew were interested in me who just didn't like animals at all. I don't mean indifferent, I mean didn't want animals near them. I didn't even bother going there, I just think that my boy is so much part of my life it just doesn't make sense to be with someone who would resent him being around.

For people who say why not just go to a trainer rather than a behaviourist, there is no regulation of trainers either so that argument is moot. I could pop down the road buy myself a franchise and call myself a trainer or a behaviourist, so long as I had the money, make up some references, flashy website and there I go. I come from an academic background, but I don't necessarily think that just having academic qualifications makes you a good behaviourist any more than it makes someone a good vet or a good doctor. I have come across examples of both of the latter who didn't seem to know their rear end from their elbow and made me shudder to think of people and animal's lives in their hands. Not that I don't think formal training is important, so long as it doesn't make someone to regimented in one way of thinking. It is just that I don't think it is the be all and end all, there has to be some natural ability both with animals and humans beyond that. Practical experience also goes a long way. That is why I think personal recommendations (for everything tradies, doctors, vets, behaviourists) are important.

The only thing that strikes me about that is I assume the military kennel their dogs and that is not usually a recommended thing with a stafford in that they like to be with their people. However, would depend on the individual dog I suppose. This dog sounds like it does need a job though. Wonder if the mail sorting people at customs take anything other than the bog standard breeds?. I think I have seen one bull breedish dog on the tv before.