Pipsal

I just wanted to let DOLERS know that I haven't forgotten you and wanted to keep you updated with the happy ending! :rolleyes: Got the 4 remaining pups to Brisbane in one piece, slept on the floor in my empty house to keep them with me for as long as possible (12 days!) as the pups gradually found homes....the last one went to a foster carer as I had to head back to the community, but they kept me in the loop and she went to a new home this weekend (thanks a million Peninsula Animal Aid - please support them if you can, or look there for your next pet!). It was incredibly hard to see them go though, but hopefully they will be happy. Their mum turned up on my front steps again a couple of hours after I got back btw....she's the next project, but we may have persuaded someone else who loves her to take her with him when he leaves in the next month. And we are trying to find out how to organise mobile desexing clinics to come out. Thank you so much to everyone who responded with advice or encouragement along the way....I can not express how truly grateful I am. This has certainly been an experience I won't forget in a hurry, and I seriously take my hat off to those of you that rescue all the time...its heart-wrenching stuff. Given how isolated I am up here, and with the negativity I encountered in others, this forum was a lifeline and I felt I was not alone. So once again, THANK YOU....you helped me, and you helped the puppies. Best wishes.

Sorry I haven't replied sooner, but I have been in transit with pups. All got to Brisbane safe and sound... I contacted or tried to contact all of the shelters suggested and left messages with people and many times never had my calls returned. Some that I did get onto said they only take puppies if there are absolutely no other options, and others had a long waiting list. The only one I did any good with was Peninsula Animal Aid....they said they would take them next week (which I already had tee-ed up, but had the problem of finding somewhere for the weekend once I found out the info from the vet!). They also arranged for me to take them to a vet today and paid to have them checked, microchipped and get their first vaccination - so thats where we've been today. All appear perfectly healthy according to vet, no noticeable problems. They are currently sleeping....finally!

Thanks for your repsonses and reassurances.....I have calmed down a bit now. Can't believe that sort of 'bombshell' was dropped on me less than 24hrs prior to travelling to Brisbane. I love my own dog like a child and only get to see her when I am in Brisbane (because I won't bring her up here), and then I find out that I might be risking her - and after I had rang her vet on Monday to check if there were any potential issues for her before confirming my plans. I ended up ringing the vet myself tonight and talked to him about it. My parents were fairly accurate in what they passed on to me - he was very negative and said they could have some diseases which would render them 'put down' candidates. In his defence, a small part of it was my mothers freak out and lack of understanding also, but it did have me really worried for my own dog as well as the pups future....and I must admit I am still a bit unsettled. But at this stage they will still be travelling down tomorrow and I will have them on the weekend at my house and keep my dog with my parents. Not sure if I should advertise now or not because the vets strong push for RSPCA to deal with it because I wouldn't want to be responsible for giving people puppies that might be sick and die, etc. The vet said that if I am going to put them into a shelter then there is no point paying to get them checked etc (although I kind of want to know for my own piece of mind if they are ok, especially if going to a shelter). If I get them 'vet checked' - its going to cost me around $160 for all, plus $20ea for injection (plus consultation time to do that). Thanks again Ams for contacting Anvet - I wonder what they charge to vet check them all, maybe I could pay them for that if they are so generously offering the vaccinations? Showing my ignorance here, but will a 'vet check' be able to tell if they have any problems, or any of these diseases that will get them put down? Some of the diseases are treatable I'm told, but shelters won't pay for it because it is very expensive...maybe if I paid for it they would do it? (I'm sure I sound like I'm made of money, but at the moment I really can't afford all of this but I just can't rest easy if I don't do everything I can - giving them up at all is going to be so hard!). Unfortunately I am not able to worm them again until after I get to Brisbane as I do not have any more tablets here and am heading off tomorrow evening but won't get to a town with a vet until well after they are closed. They were wormed 1 week and 1 day ago, so they are not due until next Wednesday - is it ok to wait until then or should they get it sooner as they did have worms (lesson learnt! - but the a vet practice gave tablet worming treatments for them when someone went to town and got them for me....this was for 3wk old pups, and we couldn't get them to take them so I tried again at 5wks because I didn't realise it would become such a nasty problem so young!) I'm not sure how the worm cycle goes, whether there are a new batch growing in them now because I heard the treatment only kills the adults (the vet STRONGLY recommended I worm myself also...could have been what freaked my mother out even more)? Obviously can't get the treatment for mange yet either - but at the moment they have no signs of that they have beautiful shiny coats (have seen it on a few dogs and pups around the community, but not on any for a while). Also, I am driving the pups so they are not travelling with other dogs.

After everything that has happened (see previous posts), I have organised to get the pups down to Brisbane this weekend, at great expense to myself, but I was content that it was the best option. I had a shelter lined up to take them sometime next week if I hadn't' found homes for them. The plan was to take them to a vet Saturday for a check, then find homes for them. My parents were speaking to the vet about the situation today, and he was horrified (the same vet practice I have my appt with and had rung earlier in the week and asked all sorts of qns about whether my dog could get anything from them and all I was told was ear mites as she is treated for the rest of it). He said what were the pups saved for in the first place and that they need to be taken straight to an RSPCA as soon as they get here where they will probably be put down. He says that if the mother dog was not vaccinated then they probably have all sorts of diseases and that I should not find homes for them because it could be bringing the diseases down with them and that they should stay where they are. And not to come into any contact with their excrement - not to get it on shoes or anything because it will spread things. And that I should not be finding homes for them myself because of the disease etc. What can I do?! I couldn't deal with doing something that might hurt my own dog who is in Brisbane - so what do I do? Is this a general concensus - is what he says true? I am arriving very late Friday night, and the only place open will be an RSPCA - but should I even take them in my car if they are that diseased (I've been holding them etc for weeks..)???? These pups appear to be strong and healthy - they are super active, alert and clever etc, and I was almost wanting to keep one myself! I don't know how you rescue people do this all the time, this has been a horrible emotional rollercoaster and once again I am at a loss....

Sorry if there has been some confusion....to clarify, Ams is the only poster that I have had 'PM' contact with, the rest of my questions and responses are on this thread. Ams has generously offered a voucher for free crate hire, and when I asked if she had any idea what it might cost to use a transport company to transport them that far rather than drive them myself, she generously offered her time to make some enquiries with transport groups on Monday. Maybe I misunderstood, but I was not aware Ams was actually organising anything as we had not discussed specific details, and I was waiting on the information to make a decision on which way to go. Now that I have the name of Dogtainers company, perhaps I should contact them direct so that there is no more confusion, and they can probably answer all of my questions. As far as I am aware there have been some other generous offers of help for which I am eternally grateful, but no arrangements have been made with anyone else yet as I do not know yet how/if this will pull together, although please correct me if I've misinterpreted your post. My question re. the crate hire after offer of the voucher was a general one as I am unfamiliar with how it works, and I am considering my options of driving them myself or paying for them to be transported. If I drive them myself, I was wondering if the containers have to be collected from airports or if they are delivered to your door; and if they have to be returned to the start location or if there are multiple ports. I looked up the Dogtainers website after the offer, but could not find the answer to these questions as they only detailed air travel or Dogtainers doing the transporting which is only one of the options I am looking at. As I have also discussed, if I get them to Brisbane I will try and keep them at my house there for a week or 2 while I am in town so that they are together longer and so that a few people I have that are interested can have a look at them. Any that are not homed after that I will have to hand over to one of the rescue places that people have suggested. I hope this clears up the confusion?

Thanks for all the ideas/options. I will contact SCARS and Animal Welfare League on Monday/Tuesday (scars is not open monday's according to website). Just have to arrange to get them here now....where do I get a crate from? Are they hire-able for a one way trip?

Brown girl and other black girl

Black boy and girl

More pics, inclu. Brown Boy They do have their own water bowl btw....they just decided to copy mum who drinks out of the bucket in the yard (can't put this in the puppy pen cos I'm afraid they'll fall in when I'm not around!). Shows how tall they are getting though!

Thanks for the offers of help, etc. I may have found a home for 1 boy....and I have a few people interested in them thanks to my brother posting pics and msg on his facebook account (its good for something!). Still means I need to get the pups to Brisbane though as that is where these people are, and they want to see them....more shelters in Bris too if things don't work out I guess. Here are some of the updated pics, especially for those in CQ, took my brother a while to send them through....Pups are 5 weeks old in pics.

I am needing to find somewhere for the puppies to go at 7 weeks old, or if I can get them to Brisbane I might be able to look after them for another week or so...I can't take Mum dog because 'technically' she belongs to someone - if you find my earlier discussions this is discussed in detail, a whole 'nother story....I know this is not ideal and that a lot of breeders keep them up to 12 weeks, but a vet told me they can be removed from mum at 6-8wks old as long as they are weaned, and its honestly a lot better than they would get here being left to fend for themselves. I thought a rescue place may take them and by the time they were vet checked etc it would be close to 8wks before leaving littermates. I would have prefered for them to be de-sexed before re-homing so that they don't end up like their mother.

Thank you for your replies, I certainly feel a little more positive now than I did this afternoon. The pups are in Central Qld...I can probably (if I can manage 5 little rascals by myself in the car for a few hours!) get them to Rockhampton as I will be flying out of there to Brisbane. I looked at trying to fly the pups down but Virgin's website says they have to be 8wks old. The pups are Kelpie-ish cross I think....Mum looks very much like a Kelpie, but I doubt she's a purebred, obviously not sure about Dad - but probably around the same size. My brother came from Brisbane to visit this weekend and he has taken some current pics of the pups - he's going to put them on facebook too, and see if anyone he knows might be interested...still means they have to get to Brisbane though. I'll post some when he sends them to me tomorrow hopefully. (I did put some on a couple of earlier discussion topics I started, but not sure how to link them).

Does seem strange they wouldn't take them, if you hand them in as strays they should have to accept them? Maybe shelter was the wrong word for the place I tried? I thought it was a shelter, but it seems like maybe it is just a 'match up' service where they have animals in foster care around the place that they advertise for new homes? This is the only place in CQld that I am aware of though.

That's who I tried. They don't have any foster carers.

Central Qld area

I need to find homes for the 'stray' dogs 5 pups that I have been raising... in the next 10 days or so as i am leaving here. They will be nearly 7 weeks old, and should be fully weaned by then as they've been eating since 3.5 weeks old. I rang the nearest animal shelter (over 2hrs away from me), and they said they would put them up on their website to see if anyone was interested, but that they won't take them. And there is not another shelter that I know of anywhere near here (if so its a lot more than 2hrs away). i have put an awful lot of time into these pups - and I'm going to have a hard time giving them away as it is, but I thought it would be better if I took them to a shelter once they were 'raised' so that they could be re-homed so I didn't contact them before now. I don't know what to do now. My options are: 1. Let some people in my community take them because a number of them have expressed interest - but I was determined to avoid that option as the dogs here do not have a good life in most cases, even to the nicest people....its the attitude and the role of the dog. None of them have ever even seen a vet, even when they are badly hurt, they are kicked, underfed, etc. Is it better to let them have a life that may not be long or the happiest, or no chance of a life at all? 2. Try and work out how I can take them to Brisbane with me, and maybe find a shelter there? Or homes for them....how? Advertise? That is provided I have somewhere to stay where they can be kept for the 2 weeks or so I am there, then what happens after that if they don't have homes? 3. There might be a pet shop a few hours away that said they may be able to help 'get rid of them' - I wonder whether this means find homes or not, but if it does, is this an ok option? I was hoping if they went to a shelter they would get spayed before being homed so was trying to avoid this...the pups are just beautiful, and I have spent so much time with them that I am very attached and would like to know what kind of situation they end up going to if possible. How do breeders give up their puppies? I was looking at from the view that I can't home them all and its the best thing for them to go to a good home, but with the uncertainty of whether homes can be found I wonder whether we did the right thing trying to help them in the first place, and I'm at a loss as to what to do now.

Thanks for the words of encouragement, they are beautiful puppies. I'll have to take some more photos this weekend - they are like little dogs now rather than pups! I have made the pen wall higher again and put a better ramp for mum so she will get in it - last night I went out because mum finally decided to get in with them before I let her in and there was a lot of crashing and banging as she knocked the walls down. I can't really take mum to a rescue place because technically she belongs to people in my community - luckily they don't want the pups and were happy for me to take them on. I have been trying to encourage the kids that own her to come and spend time with her and the pups and teaching them what she needs to be happy so she might stay with them - I think mostly she is hungry, so i might start buying a bit of food and giving it to the kids to feed her. She's gone off with them today for a walk, etc and has been gone for several hours, so hopefully that is a good sign. I did think about taking on mum myself, but I think she is best staying in the community though, but we are looking into whether we can get her speyed with owners permission.

I have a litter of 5 just over 4wk old pups I'm raising that belong to a 'stray' dog. They are beautiful pups with very different personalities, and I have put a lot of time into trying to 'rear' them as best I can so they will be nice dogs that can go to good homes. I have groups of kids come and play with them every afternoon, they get lots of cuddles and talked to all the time (they know my voice and will follow me now if I call them, etc). I have them in a makeshift pen with a covered sleeping shelter which takes up about a quarter of the space so they have room to eat and play, but every day at least once I let them out into the yard to explore for a couple of hours (supervised). I've even bathed them once and wormed them. We made the pen so mum can come and go (tried to keep her in but she's never been restrained and keeps getting out and I don't want the pups to get out and follow cos they could end up anywhere), but pups are clever and determined little things and will now hang on the 'wall' and kick their legs until they get enough momentum to get over it, mostly when Mum or I am standing on the other side. Keep making that wall higher, but mum is already whining and crying everytime she comes to it so I can't go much more or she won' t try and jump in and they need her warmth at night - during the day today they did fine cos I just had to block it so she couldn't get in...gave me a chance to feed pups the soggy biscuits before milk twice, so might help with weaning them (they've been eating the biscuits since 3wks old, but not regularly). Is it a problem if Mum has to be away from them for maybe 6-7hrs or so a day (on the other side of an old screen door, so within sight and smell - I notice they all slept close to where she was on the other side of it today)? What else should/could I be doing for these pups to make properly socialise them? What would a breeder do? If I can't find people who want these dogs, I will have to hand them over to the RSPCA or similar - but I am worried that they will just put them down. Do they try and find homes for these puppies? Given all the work I've put in and how lovely they are, I really don't think I could just hand them over for that, but I'm not in a position to keep them either (maybe 1, but we'll have to see...). Any advice on who to contact that might find homes for them - I can probably get them to Brisbane or Rockhampton area. One last question (sorry, this is my first time with a litter of pups)...how do I know if they are being overfed? These pups seem to have doubled in size this week. Everyone says that means they are going to be massive dogs, but they don't have big paws, and mum is a kelpie-ish dog but don't know about dad/s - can you tell at 4wks how big they may get....I haven't weighed them, but they would be about 1-1.5kg and 30cm long and for 3 of them their body is solid (specially after a feed), the other 2 seem to have smaller features, but still as long. Does this mean they are overfed, or will be big dogs (ppl are asking how big they will grow so they know if they take one, and I have no idea)? Thank you for any advice. Am trying to attach pics of pups at 3wks old - much bigger than that now!

mumof3...you have to experience it to really understand don't you! Yes, I am in a remote Aboriginal community. And to clear some stuff up, my friends and I are government workers and our accommodation is all next to each other. The dog has formed an 'attachment' with myself and a couple of colleagues and has been sleeping in my front yard (getting under gate) the whole year so far, except when we put an old dog bed out the front of the other girls place - so the dog would sit on my steps until I went to bed at night and then go sleep there while she was pregnant - but we still didn't feed her because we were trying not to encourage it. The pups started out for first week in my friends laundry (she had the pups under a building near another colleague's place so we knew where to find her, but she wouldn't come out to eat or anything because other dogs were hanging around which is why we took them back to our place), and they have now ended up in my yard for the past 2 weeks, and from now on by the looks....we are both still taking care of them, but now they are here I seem to be doing more which is why I'm asking questions. I know this sounds cruel, and again, it is hard to understand if you haven't been here, and I can tell you that we are really struggling with trying not to get too attached to this dog but she's making it very difficult (and I think she knows it)! Given the situation/community we live in we are *trying* to not take her in as such which is why we are letting her come and go as she has always done, but have the pups safe so they can't get out but mum can get in. Technically she is not a stray I guess - I know who owns her, and that is how I have known her long enough to have 3 litters. She seemed to be a very loved and cared for dog and has a beautiful nature, but towards the end of last year she stopped going home and started sleeping under a building - we can only guess as to why, but she's a smart dog and something unpleasant must have happened to her (not at all uncommon here unfortunately). We have been to see her 'previous' owners and told them we have the puppies, and they said they don't want anything to do with them....when we asked about the mother dog the comment was "she doesn't come here any more". We will try and devise some sort of solution to the fence tomorrow, but we have limited resources until we go shopping, and even then I know she will hate it (mostly when we are not around, if someone is there she's fine). Part of the reason we can't take her on permanently is that we're from Brisbane and going back there at some point, and I think it would be cruel for her to end up there - which is why we considered desexing her and leaving her here if we can't find a home for her....we ARE trying to find a home for her btw, every government employee and some of the caring locals have been asked, but nothing yet.

Thanks for your replies and encouragement! In response to various comments/suggestions: Firstly, I fed the puppies the dry puppy biscuits with water 3 times today and they finished it all. Mum fed them a little a couple of times too. We tried to keep mum in the yard, and brought her back from the school (because she took off early in the morning), and blocked the hole under the gate. She stayed there until we got home from work, but in the afternoon she wanted to chase/bark at trail bikes/horses/people that went past and pulled away our blockade and got out under the fence - she hangs around out the front then. Then later this evening I blocked it so she couldn't move it, and I went outside to check on them as it is getting quite cold at night, and she's siting on the other side of the fence looking at me. She must have jumped it, cos I can't see how else she did it, and then wouldn't jump to get back in...needless to say for tonight anyway, I have now left the gate open again tonight because she generally settles by now and the pups need her warmth so I don't want her to get stuck outside. We will have to look at what else we can do tomorrow. As for desexing, I can't afford to get all the pups done! We were planning to take them into the nearest town (2hrs drive) and give them to a shelter to find homes for. We are also putting the word out around our community area. With mum, we would love to have her done as this is the 3rd litter in the 18mths I've known of her in town! But we need to find someone to take her on permanently as we are not in a position to. We will pay for it, and have even thought about having it done and then letting her keep on living as she has been (because believe it or not I think she has a pretty good life here - she loves running around town and visiting people, going to the school where the kids feed her, etc). I don't know that I could see her being happy confined in a surburban environment... Anyway, our concern about this is that by having her desexed she might loose some of that 'survival' instinct - she's very clever and knows where and who to go to for whatever she needs....some people have said that she would loose that and need to have a home to survive? Any ideas on this? Worming was already on the agenda, but there is no shop within 2hrs drive so it has to wait for someone's run in this weekend. I looked at a supermarket last weekend but couldn't find anything that listed puppies this young which is why I asked about it - can anyone recommend what type to get/where to get it? Mail comes most days here, but it might be quicker to get it on the weekend as we're probably too late to get it before this weekend. Also, what about flea treatments? 3 of the pups I have seen toileting. I'm not sure about the other 2....and I'm a little concerned because their bellies are quite 'full' and rounded. Does this mean they may not be toileting yet? I held both pups up to mum as someone suggested and she did lick them a bit, I am hoping this does something - will check tomorrow though. I know it could be worms, but wouldn't they all have that? Because 3 of them are fine. I think the pup that was crying a lot yesterday is just a whinger....I think she can see the best because she was following me this afternoon and then sitting between my feet almost for comfort when mum wasn't around. The 2 that have swollen bellies are not moving around as much as the others - they almost seem more immature/less developed, and they are more unsteady on their feet...I was away when their eyes opened etc but I know that the 2 pups that are the most active/alert now were first. Have attached some pics for badboyz and anyone else who is interested (kelpiekay might be too cos i think mum dog is large part kelpie...).

I live in a remote area with no access to vet, etc. There are a lot of stray or very uncared for dogs around and one of them who started to show up at the local school every day - and that we showed some kindness to (only by talking to her, not feeding/patting etc), has found where we live and has dug a hole under the front gate. She then spends every night sleeping on or under our stairs....still not feeding her etc, but she's determined to try and make this home! About 3 weeks ago she had a litter of puppies under a building, and my friend decided to take them and her home and keep her in the laundry for the first couple of weeks to give them a good start - most feeding dogs here are really starving, so we could give mum some food to keep her healthy. We are planning to take the pups in to a shelter or find homes for them as soon as they are weaned. They are now outside in a makeshift pen that allows mum to come and go but keeps pups safe. Sorry for so much info - but I want to explain the situation before I get shot down as a backyard breeder! Anyway....on to my questions/concerns.... There are 5 puppies, all have grown heaps, and started opening their eyes at about 11 days old. They started moving around pretty much soon after this, and now they are 23 days old they are exploring, yapping, and playing - still a bit unsteady on their feet, but improving every day. They are starting to recognise me when I go in to them I think because they now come out and start licking my feet! Problem 1. Mum dog has for the past few days decided to leave pups and go to the school for food (old habit, even though we are feeding her a lotQu) and social I think as she loves it there. Puppies are then left for up to 6hrs by themselves...is this too long without food for 21 day old pups? They are quite solid pups, not skinny at all (yet). Problem 2. One pup was constantly crying this afternoon for hours on and off - mum dog was back but standing guard at the gate and not going in with the pups, so still not feeding them. I even took crying pup to her and she seemed to try and try to latch on but kept crying and moved from one nipple to the other without success it seemed. Does this mean she has stopped making milk? Could there be another problem? Query 1. A couple of the pups were showing interest in mums dog biscuits yesterday - they would get a piece in their mouth then spit it out. I put out some puppy dry food mixed with water this afternoon, and surprisingly they all went straight into it quite intensely! They were lapping up the water I think, and maybe eating the little biscuits too because most of them gradually disappeared - and they didn't completely dissolve. Does this sound too early for just over 3 weeks old? If mum is not feeding them properly then we need to do something? Will this do? I have puppy dry biscuits, and a couple of cans of puppy chcken and rice soft food....I don't have access to a shop until the weekend at least so I hope this will do? Can I feed them too much- I took away what I put down because their bellies were getting pretty full and they were still eating? Query 2. We wormed mum a couple of weeks before pups were due so don't seem to have worms problem yet - but when is it ok to give them worming treatment - and flea treatment? And mum too, can she have these things while she is feeding? Thanks for any advice, etc!