Sagittarian

We've just said farewell to Penny. It doesn't matter if they're old, if they've lived a good life. It hurts to say goodbye. Earlier this year, she decided she wanted to catch a rabbit, after living on the same property as wild bunnies for more than 10 years. She spent weeks tracking them, then proudly brought me a rabbit as a gift one day. After that, she never bothered again. She was in love with our children, particular the youngest, who would - as a toddler, climb into the low down fork of a tree and call her. She'd obligingly back under the tree to let him drop on her back, with an expression of utter joy on her face. After never having a day of sickness (barely slowing down when she dislocated her toe chasing her half sister years ago), she succumbed to bone cancer. She was a treasure until the end, and the end was peaceful. Never forgotten. Portway Constant Craving, St Bernard.

The only grain free foods that I am aware are in Australia are: Orijen Artemis Maximal Ziwipeak Evo (only available at PP and their subsidiaries). Eagle Pack is grain based. Sags

Well, call it a different view of pricing then, Harold. :p GST is already paid to the wholesaler, and of course GST is always paid to the government, so how the final cost is reached then becomes an in store decision. I can tell you that many products do not have a recommended retail price (Supercoat, worming products, flea treatments, most beds, many toys, collars etc), so the retailer is certainly not doing anything illegal there by working out their own margin. Regardless, it is great to hear that the product is helping your dog, and at the end of the day, that is all that really matters. Sags

It was great to hear that your boy is responding well (so far, so good!) to Orijen. Keep in mind with the price that some add GST, some don't, which may explain some differences. While it does pay to shop around, my experience has always been that if you are happy with how you are looked after, how knowledgeable the people you deal with are, and how genuine you judge them to be, that you can't really go wrong. Looking forward to following your progress. Sags

Will email the wholesaler and see where things stand. Last I heard it was late this year, early next year. This will be a very exciting food! Sags

Ditto - $124 ish is RRP so I would be asking the store why so expensive? There are a number of good puppy options. If you do like the idea of Orijen then there are now several outlets in Melbourne that stock it. Artemis has a really good puppy food that is holistic and not nearly as dear as EPH. Sags

Rather than just looking for lower protein, what about changing to a completely different brand for a bag and see if that makes a difference? Instead of a brand with wheat in, something that is rice based - a holistic or organic variety will generally provide less grain and more quality meat product. Ones that comes to mind include Artemis Medium/Lge Breed puppy, EP Holistic Chicken, DVP Natural Balance - although only the first one is specifically made for puppies. If those are not readily available for you to try, have a really good look at ingredients and select for no wheat, no corn, no unidentified meat products, no artificial inclusions. As Dali's can have protein related issues (not scratching though usually), if you consider any grain free then go very gently. Oh - some brands that claim to be sensitive suitable actually spray the outside of the kibble with animal digest, which can irritate, so try to find out with whatever you end up selecting. Of course, there is always BARF. Sags

Prota was taken over by VIP a few years ago. We did consider stocking these at one point but found the Ecopet to be more consistent quality. Sags

Hi Harold, Please don't feel you can't ask questions... if you have a good relationship with a store owner perhaps he would show you what the wholesalers charge him so that you could better understand what the retailer has to charge. If your Wei has issues then I do want to encourage you to look to diet as a way to optimise his/her immune system. We've seen a great improvement in the health of our old Saint who has bone cancer. No, the cancer isn't going away, but she is happier and looks fantastic since moving to Orijen and more recently trialling her on Artemis. Let's face it, nobody goes into business to lose money. But nor does everyone running a store milk the customer. After all, they are consumers as well. Perhaps I am living in a dream world lol, but then again, I happen to believe I work for one of the fairest men in business today. Sags

Yes, EP Holistic RRP is now almost $125 ;) . Some of Hills are close to $130. And so it goes... Sags

Having a giant breed, should I ever have another 8 week old I would not hesitate to feed Orijen. When I worked for one petfood company, the propaganda passed off to the group of trainees was unbelievable. Well, believable actually, as some trainees not only ran with it, but became little robots in their rhetoric about the food. Information about the need for certain grains, protein levels and so on that in reality have little to do with real nutritional needs of dogs. Everyone must investigate for themselves. If someone is so committed to a food that their judgement is clouded, then ask why. Are they sponsored by, or work for, that company? Have they properly studied nutrition from independent sources, or merely absorbed clever marketing? At one point, I did believe that high protein caused growth issues. Having raised many puppies who have been sound adults, with various diets and different bloodlines, the one thing that was clear was that calorie intake mattered. Protein made no impact on growth. This is my experience, not something that has been told to me second hand. By the way, Artemis only has one grain free food - Maximal. The remainder of this holistic range does contain grains, but also high meat content. As far as my own oldies go, they are thriving on a more biologically correct ratio of meat to botanicals, fruits and veges than when on some other foods. Just my opinion! Sags

Margins vary depending upon product type, wholesaler etc. Unless retailers get together to price fix (quite illegal lol), then it comes down to the individual to set their margins. Sags

There's puppy and large breed puppy. Sags

Have to admit I'm shocked there is any lamb and rice left! lol. We still have a couple of senior dog bags and a bit of cat, but then again, we had a huge holding so it's given customers a little time to change over to other foods. Sags

Have just introduced one old girl to Artemis Senior (she loves the Orijen but is struggling to get a lot of food down so want to offer her everything). The Senior looks really good with a decent meat content and generous botanicals. The grain content is not over the top either. She cried all the way through her first meal after really losing interest in food a day or two ago (she has bone cancer so every day is a bonus). To answer Miranda, Power looks promising, more similar to Nutro Performance than anything I've seen to date. It is a reasonable size bite though, which is obviously good for some and not for others. Sags

Great news! Sags

Hi Rommimum, I was interested to read this and checked a bag out at work today. Ingredients as follows: Cereals and bran, real roo meat, tallow from beef and/or mutton, meat and meat by product derived from beef and/or mutton, chicken by product meal, vegetable protein, real chicken, salt, vitamins, minerals, essential amino acids, natural flavour. If he can handle the Bonnie, which does contain beef, chicken and lamb, then it might be worth you trying him on other foods (if you are inclined to) which have named meats (meaning, chicken meal, lamb meal etc rather than and/or) which might help him even more. We have a big staffie population, a reasonable percentage of which have allergies, and almost without fail have had success with Lamb Meal and Rice formulas (such as in Nutro and now Pro Pac), Eagle Pack Holistic Fish, and Orijen. It is really worth reading ingredient lists and not relying on the front of a bag, which as with human foods, can often be the result of clever marketing rather than full disclosure. Sags btw, we feed Orijen to our girls with Ziwipeak cans from time to time.

Keep in mind that Snooza will repair damage at no cost. We sell a lot of D1000's, particularly the bigger sizes, and the feedback is always positive. Our staff buy them too! If there is any chewing that gets through, then use your Snooza guarantee, they are always a pleasure to deal with. Sags

Nothing to do with Orijen, but we used to live at West Dapto! Small world, isn't it? On Orijen, had a wonderful story yesterday from a customer with a very old cat who had all but stopped eating and they had been thinking might be heading from a hard decision. They offered some Orijen, which to their amazement was gobbled up like there was no tomorrow. After a week or so, the cat is still eating, starting to gain a little weight, and has delighted their vet. Love it! Sags

Sounds as though you're on the right track with weight. It isn't about her actual weight, but about just having a thin layer over her ribs. Of course, the trick with puppies is to feed them enough when they go through rapid stages, without overdoing it when they slow down again! I'm a big believer in letting puppies be puppies... within reason. Ours have all handled a few steps without any issues, and yes, sometimes they want to jump straight onto things. Try to show her the right way to do things by constantly reminding her - but don't stress! Sags

Hi botheration. Just a couple of quick things. Martha is too young to have had any "hip certificate" - do you mean her parents weren't scored? If you feed her a highly nutritious food but restrict her calories during the formative months, then you will go a long way toward giving her joints their best chance. HD and OCD both have hereditary values, so if she is predisposed then you can only do so much to reduce the expression of the disease. But the key is to keep them lean, not over exercise, and feed well. The high protein (and I do understand it is controversial) is not something that concerns me (as a long time breeder of giant dogs). Once upon a time I would have thrown my hands up in horror but education is a wonderful thing. Suggest that now Martha is settled on Orijen that you look at purchasing the bigger bags - 13.5kg for $110.00 is much better value per day to feed. BTW, for the OP, I know a number of people happily raising large and giant breed pups on Orijen so it certainly is worth considering when you settle your new baby in - as is a raw diet or a true super premium dry. Have fun and lots of photos required! Sags

Hi Ian, While I agree that some people do like to try whatever is the newest thing, more and more I'm seeing people who genuinely want to provide a better quality of life for their pets. Whether that is by offering massage, swimming, interactive toys, or a better diet, there is a move amongst a lot of pet owners (in particular) to do the best they believe they can. I agree that advertising hype is responsible for many food choices. Same with human food. Some brands are a bit hard to get away from - either on TV, or in the dog world, saturation via show sponsorship, kennel sponsorship, puppy packs, and so on. Orijen does none of that. Certainly in Australia, there is no advertising budget to speak of (so I've been told), no plans to cater to breeders, no show sponsorship or puppy packs. What does advertise it is word of mouth, and I've never seen such a positive response to a product in that way as Orijen is currently creating. As far as cost goes, yes, multiple dogs in a family or kennel environment do have to be factored in. That is where a lot of brands do well by great sponsorship deals (and we've recieved these in the past) and deals such as 2 for 1 that we see so much of. Speaking from personal experience, I was interested to compare the volume I have fed of the following brands to a fairly active, 70kg St Bernard. Orijen (375grams), Nutro (400grams), Eukanuba, Royal Canin, Pro Pac, Nutrience (all 420-450grams), Eagle Pack Holistic, Pro Plan (500grams). This is to keep proper condition on and satiate hunger. I initially fed 400grams of Orijen, but both girls were more than satisfied (probably due to higher protein content) and I found one was gaining a bit of weight. Cost a day to feed one Saint based upon this and upon cost per bag (perhaps shopping around some prices may be a bit better) are along these lines: Nutro - $2.45 ($91.95 for 15kg) Euk - $2.77 ($96.96 for 15kg) Pro Pac - $2.77 ($91.95 for 15kg) RC - $2.85 Nutrience - $2.85 Orijen - $3.05 per day ($109.95 for 13.5kg) Pro Plan - $3.30 ($112 for 17kg) Eagle Pack - $4.15 ($124 for 15kg) This is my experience only, so feel free to ignore it. As with any food, every dog is different and results will vary a lot. I truly believe if your dog is happy and well on one food, then stay with it. But, there is also no harm in seeing if a different nutritional make up will suit even better. Over the years we've tried more or less everything on the local market and some were disappointing, so it really comes down to the individual. Nice topic! Sags

Orijen food. I wish I had a dog to show as I've never had such glorious coats since changing to Orijen. No more supplements for us! Sags

We encourage customers to try the 400gram bags first. Without fail (to date), the return rate to move up to bigger bags is 100%. The food speaks for itself. Our own dogs are doing exceptionally well. Penny - who is almost 12 and has bone cancer, is keen to eat again and enjoying her meals. She looks good, as does Evie who has finally stopped dropping coat! Sags

I guess that point Viszla was making is that any sale to either PP or PGD ends up in the same cash register (metaphorically speaking). Along with a number of other businesses (not all dog related), this is all part of the same parent company. PP is the importer of Innova products and therefore provides them to PGD. They have an exclusive arrangement with Innova to do so. At least there are now - if slowly - some great alternatives coming into this country. Sags