spanky

Have to agree with SBT123, I think what I see as responsible is probably very different to most of my family / friends, but then they will all tell you I'm a crazy dog person. Responsible is providing appropriate food, water, shelter, exercise, vet care, training, poop pickup, grooming and fencing for the breed of dog you own. For example I have French Bulldogs, so in summer most of their exercise is training and playing fetch in the backyard... we do the occassional walk and lots of trips in the car, but due to the heat it just isn't intelligent to walk them as normal. I provide them with 3 different drinking buckets and they have a pool to cool off in. They have plenty of access to shade and on very hot days I leave a pedistal fan on which blows over their bed and wet towels on the ground. I believe this is a responsible approach for the breed I own. Guess responsible is a hard thing to define as everyone individual has a different idea of what it actually is. If you take a scientific approach to the animal welfare debate (just happened to be reading an article this morning) it is not about measuring but assessing the level of welfare and no matter what method you use to make the assessment if it is done properly all methods should reach a similar conclusion... so if the animal is still allowed to show natural behaviours, is without pain / treated for illness and in good condition (eating / drinking appropiately) then from a welfare perspective it is doing well, so maybe that is a way to determine if the owner is responsible?

If they have human company and a romp with some doggy friends every now and then they will be fine. It's important to socialise them with other dogs, but I wouldn't say they have to live with another dog.

Thanks, that gives me another angle to think about. I'm going to go buy a couple of soft crates today... easier on the floors... and set them up for the dogs. Honestly their exercise and training has been reduced lately, partly due to the heat and my morning (read all-day) sickness. I'll try to pick it back up this week and get stuck into the obedience training. Callista loves the TID that I do with her. I've sent off an email to Jane and Steve, but I know they are both probably really busy at this time of year so I'm just waiting to hear back. Thanks for the congrats, it is a bit of a surprise, but we're both very happy and looking forward to being parents of a real child

I say dominance / possessive, K9 Force would say rank aggressive. The behaviourist that has visited us and spent time with the dogs agrees Griffin has aggression issues based on his desire to be the dominant dog. If Callista (or any dog) is getting attention from me Griffin will run over and put himself between me and the other dog. If I discipline Callista, Griffin takes that as a sign to go and tell her off (particularly if she won't do as told... she's a bit stubborn). I guess it's hard without seeing them, but they play fight, do zoomies, sleep curled up together, chew toys right beside each other, happily wait for the other to finish eating before changing bowls and generally follow each other around... which makes it so annoying that the fights happen, because at all other times they are best friends.

This is the interesting thing. From what we can figure out if we aren't around they don't have an issue. They become distrested when separated (ie. take one to the vet and leave one at home) and 90% of the time just kick around together with no problems. In a sense the crate brings its own set of issues as Griffin becomes possessive of it. Looks like rotation of the dogs it is for the time being though. Thanks Bec, we're still getting over the shock of it Think a visit to / from Jane is a must do. Yes. Griffin around 4, Callista at 12months

Ok, so some background to the story... Griffin is an 8yr old male french bulldog. He came to live with us in Feb 08. In Aug 08 he was diagnosed with renal failure. From the info I've managed to track down he came from an abusive home (directed at him from both humans and dogs). He does not like male intact dogs, staffys in particular set him off, he is questionable with most dogs bigger than himself. Griffin is quite comfortable being around dogs that aren't interested in him and that aren't seen as a challenger for the boss dog position. He is possessive of me / toys / anything he decides is his. Callista is a 2yr old female french bulldog. She came to live with us in Jul 08. She has some existing issues related to her back, but they don't really present a challenge to her on a day to day basis. She's a very drivey dog and is being trained (albit poorly) by me using K9 Force's TID package. She was quite shy when we got her, but with time and gentle socialisation she has really come out of her shell and is a beautiful natured dog. Quite alert, which is unusual for a frenchie and is inclined to bark at people walking past the house / coming to the front door. When we first got Griffin there was no overtly aggressive displays from him (I'm sure there were, but I had no idea what they were at the time) and so we decided to get another frenchie. From the moment Callista stepped into the house Griffin was not a happy dog. She was not allowed within a couple of metres of me and it was not long before they had their first fight. We had a behaviourist come and visit us within a week and using NILF, TOT and other suggested techniques we had improvement. Earlier this year it was at a point that they could go 4-5mnths without a fight. The OH and I became excellent at picking the signals from Griffin and nipping any issues in the bud. Recently Griffin has been sick, due to the renal failure, and during this time he was beaten by Callista in a fight for the first time and he submitted to her. Ever since then the fighting has stepped up to a whole new level and while the techniques still work, the intensity and frequency of fights is not getting any better. When they fight, if Callista submits she will wait until Griffin lets her up and then she will start it again and again and again until she wins and gets Griffin to submit. We do our best to separate them, but sometimes it's not easy when your on your own and they just won't let go of the leg / ear / jowl in their mouth. I've got a really nice bite bruise (that is slowly fading) to show that even once I'm holding one the other doesn't want to stop... particularly if I've grabbed Griffin... Callista is a very good jumper. So, I guess I'm looking for suggestions on how to improve the dominance struggle we're experiencing... I will contact K9 Force and Jane to discuss the issue, but I'm just searching for wider opinions. To add to the mix, I'm 9wks pregnant and both the OH and I would like to fix the issue before I get too fat to do much and before we bring a baby home. I'm happy to answer any further questions to give more info on the situation, but I will be without computer access today, so won't be able to answer until tonight.

Yep, I was the one with the 2 frenchies... one of which has stupid amounts of drive which Steve is slowly (due to my own slackness) teaching me to use.

OH couldn't believe how buggered Callista was when we got home... must have been the workout that Seita did with her. Thanks so much for the pointers... if I can make her work like that Steve will hopefully be impressed! Griffin behaved himself and didn't try to beat up Callista and I have yet more understanding of his issues, poor boy had a pretty yuck life before ending in rescue Daisy was awesome Huski, you should definitely be proud of what you have achieved with her... did she bark all the way home??? Steve, thanks again for making yesterday available to your Queensland Fan Base, looking forward to next year already It was a great way to end my exams.

Steve could you please bring a long lead with you for me to buy? I'm going to need one if Callista and I are to be let out into the unsuspecting public.

I have a frenchie with way too much drive and energy and a sore back... though she should be good to go this weekend. Can't believe it's been 12mnths and I still haven't managed to get to module 2... *hangs head in shame*

I'm southside - not overly far from ANZ stadium (QEII). The workshop is my end of exams celebration.

I've got a spare metal crate if you'd like to borrow it. It's a large size, so should fit a std poodle... my frenchies are spoilt for room ;) Anyone want to car pool from Brissie??? I'm debating about bringing both dogs as they are fighting whenever the crate is around atm (stoopid territorial male) so if someone wants to share the ride I'll leave definitely leave Griffin at home. If you have room that would be fantastic, he is a very tall standard so if you think he would fit that would give me piece of mind. much apreciated Michelle I'll measure it on the weekend and then you can decide if he'll fit. Alright... measured it or I'll just procrastinate all weekend... it's 900 L x 620 W x 680 H. Maybe it won't fit a std poodle... your decision, I'm happy to bring it just in case.

I've got a spare metal crate if you'd like to borrow it. It's a large size, so should fit a std poodle... my frenchies are spoilt for room Anyone want to car pool from Brissie??? I'm debating about bringing both dogs as they are fighting whenever the crate is around atm (stoopid territorial male) so if someone wants to share the ride I'll leave definitely leave Griffin at home.

I'm a coming!!!!!! Might even bring both dogs since Steve has said that's ok. Griffin can just spend the day in the crate... he loooves his crate... weird dog that he is.

I'll assess the situation tomorrow and see what I can manage. Might swap a Friday for a Saturday if I can. Will have to very much pull my finger out on the training side of things though... must at least manage module 2 by then... so slack.

It's no fair I really want to come :D Steve are there any places left for a little frenchie??? Maybe as the boss I can manage to work the roster out so I can have the day off.... maybe.

As much as I wanted in on this, Callista and I will have to miss it. Too many of the casual staff at work have booked time off for me to get the day off... damn being the boss and being responsible. Plus... I'm soooo very slack with my training Calli will just be an example of what happens when the owner stuffs around for 12mnths and doesn't follow Steve's instructions.

If I was i a situation where I had a client who wanted to use say, a check chain, or prong collar, then I would explain where I stood....if they still wanted to use their tool of choice, I would refer them on to someone else who does use those training aids, explaining that as I don't use those tools, and don't recommend them, then I wouldn't be the trainer they were looking for, but they would be better off with someone who thought more along the same lines as they do. I wouldn't say to someone, "I think you need a PP collar, but I don't use them, so I'll refer you" because in my head, I would never think they would need a PP collar.....does that make sense??? It's such a minefield, isn't it????? *chooses words carefully* He's a super dog, absolutely lovely personality.....just going through a rather extreme teenage time!!! I get what you are saying completely and like everyone else I appreciate you explaining in this post and the ones since. I like to hear the ways that different people approach training methods.

Thanks for the explanation. Guess I was curious as to whether you would refer the people on if you felt you couldn't fix the problem using your methods and that the person may achiever greater / quicker success with someone willing to use prongs / martingales. I'd be quite happy for a trainer to explain there are methods they choose not to use, but which may help and be recommended to someone else. Good luck with the boxer... having lived with one I know just how stubborn and silly they can be during their teenager phase. Turn out as beautiful mates if the owner sticks with it though.

I know your stance on these Erny, but I am opposed to them....I do appreciate you are just trying to help though Is the client opposed to other options, or are they being guided by you? Have you explained the range of options to them in an unbiased fashion and allowed them to decide what they are comfortable with? Maybe if you can't help them by using a training tool suitable for the breed you should suggest they contact another trainer that will use that method.

If raised with them. I don't have cats, but my girl was raised with them and I've seen photos of her curled up with the cat asleep.

1. What is my relationship with the breed? (ie breeder, first time owner etc) I am a first time owner, have a pied male (7yrs old) and a brindle female (2yrs old) 2. Where and why was the breed first developed? I will let someone with a much better understanding of the history fill in this question. 3. How common is it in Australia? From what I have been told - not overly common. That said I've noticed that more litters available on the Dol pages recently then there were 12mnths ago. I think they are gathering quite a following. 4. What is the average lifespan? 12yrs - I think 5. What is the general temperament/personality? Going on my two it can vary between the dogs, just like any breed I suppose. My boy is willing to please and loves his people. He is quite dominant (and has aggression issues associated with this) and this can be the case with both male/female dogs. My female is a very high drive dog. She will keep chasing the ball / toy / bucket / bucket handle / dust pan as long as you will keep throwing it (once you've recovered from the fact she's eaten another bucket / dust pan). She is very snuggly and if a lap is available she wants to be lying in it / over it. They are funny dogs, they love being talked to and included in the family and they love attention. Mine are not velcro dogs, but they are very focused on me. If they have the choice between cuddling with someone (such as my OH) or me, I tend to end up with both dogs.... eventually. They are happy to meet new people and go out and about in the world. Training is pretty easy. You just need to be persistant, as they can be a little bit stubborn, but once they have something learnt they don't tend to forget. 6. How much daily exercise is needed for the average adult? Mine get a 15-20min walk normally twice a day... this changes in summer depending on the heat. 7. Is it a breed that a first time dog owner could easily cope with? I think so. As long as they understand that frenchies must be an inside dog, they do need a good pack leader, they suffer from heat stress which means activities with the dog should be planned appropriately. Oh and they take a while to toilet train 100%. 8. Can solo dogs of this breed easily occupy themselves for long periods? Not sure about a puppy - both of my dogs came to me over 12mnths old. My male was fine on his own during the day. I don't believe our female would cope with a single dog situation. So, I'd say it depends on the temperament of the dog. 9. How much grooming is required? A brush once / twice a week and a bath about once a month. For a short coated dog they do shed a fair bit of hair, so a regular brush does help. 10. Is it too boisterous for very small children or for infirm people (unless the dog is well trained)? I've never had puppies, but both of mine are fine with small kids and older people. My male loves kids and tolerates a lot from them. Mine are not jumpy dogs and would only be a concern if zoomies are taking place. For a small dog they pack a punch when they hit your legs. 11. Are there any common hereditary problems a puppy buyer should be aware of? I'll let one of the breeders answer this question. 12. When buying a puppy, what are the things you should ask of the breeder? (eg what health tests have been done (if applicable) and what is an acceptable result to those tests so the buyer has an idea of what the result should be) If I was looking for a puppy, I would be checking: Where / how are the puppies raised Does the breeder xray breeding stock for hemivertebra Do the parents have any breathing issues What are the parents temperaments like Does the breeder offer a health guarentee Comparing the dam against the standard - particularly in terms to length & weight - & asking similar questions about the sire How do the parents and previous offspring tolerate the heat General questions around how did they become involved in frenchies, do they offer continued support etc

Congrats!!! That sounds like a hard environment to perform in, so well done to Tonka

Going off the thread in general RebLT's dad just had his dog desexed and the vet found this problem at the same time.

Drop into the breed sub-forum under the general section and find the pug thread. Everyone in there is lovely and they have a wealth of knowledge. Hate to say it, but I think what your experiencing is a standard pug thing... they're all a bit mad ;)