Greytmate

I agree Persephone. When my old dog Sam got cancer he started digging holes to lie in and became less interested in playing. That is the first thing I thought of when reading the original post. Aside from that I think a big mistake was made when purchasing the pup (more than one mistake). It is wrong to think that a pup can "learn to be submissive". I don't think the OP has spent much time here at all before buying a pup. It is best that the pup goes back to the shop as soon as possible and the OP concentrates on the current dog.

That is very scary, and terrible that she was hurt. Unfortunately there are no minimum requirements for places like these or their staff. We had an employee of a dog walking company once post here to tell us how she hit a dog across the face for growling. It was growling because of the situation she placed it in. She didn't even realise that what she had done was so wrong. I think if people want their dogs cared for then a traditional style kennel is going to be safest. Day care is more about capitalising on some people's anthropomorphic tendencies.

There needs to be a term for a quality pet. People that rehome dogs are obliged to have quality control in place. If not pet quality, what do people want? There needs to be a term that differentiates between a dog that is able to fulfil the role of being a pet and one that can't. For breeders, there needs to be a distinction between a dog that is suitable for a breeding program, and one that isn't. There is also a difference between a dog that is great at obedience and agility and a dog that is able to be used to produce future top obedience or agility competitors. Why shouldn't there be a way to justify why some dogs can be bought for between $300 and $900, and others can cost well upwards of that? If there is no difference in quality, how does one justify the difference? The term pet quality doesn't exist for the unethical breeders and rehomers, because they do not have any system of quality control in place. Their dogs are just dogs and it's buyer beware that you don't get a nasty, over-anxious or unsound one. And you won't get a breeding quality animal from those sources.

Pet quality is a good thing. Everyone deserves a pet of at least pet quality. The problem is that byb produce many dogs that are not that good, they have genetic faults that make them less than pet quality. This might include anxiety, undue-aggression, severely inhibiting shyness, or a physical fault that causes the dog pain and discomfort. Ethical breeders aim for better than pet quality, but pet quality is the minimum they will sell. Byb will sell anything they produce, even if it isn't pet quality.

Dogs can bite people liability free in some circumstances, it depends on the situation. It's like in a public place, a leashed dog can injure an unleashed dog, the leashed dog will get the benefit of the doubt unless there is strong witnessed evidence that someone with a leashed dog instigated their dog to attack. A leashed dog can bite a person who attempts to assault the handler that type of thing. In the home, a dog can bite an intruder depending on state law and their respective companion animal acts, a dog biting an intruder comes under provocation which is an accepted defence. Anyone can sue anyone, but it costs a lot of money to do that and would be doubtful when a dog owner hasn't breached any dog containment laws that such a suit would be successful. I seriously doubt in the OP's case that anything would come of it from a council/police perspective if the kid got bitten at the fence especially if his hand ended up between a fence fight with two dogs involved, it may have been his dog who bit him, although best not have to put the scenario to the test, but I don't think personally from a legal aspect there is anything much to worry about in this situation. It's not a blanket thing across the board if your dog bites someone you are down the creek without a paddle, there are some circumstances where an injury by a dog doesn't result in prosecution. The OP has QLD as her home state on her profile. The dog control acts here do not allow for provocation as an excuse for dog aggression. A problem caused by a dog in QLD may not result in prosecution of the owner, but it can result in the dog being seized and possibly destroyed. There is no court case or hearing, just a council worker's decision.

It isn't until the person has been asked to leave. A person can do this, or it can be done with signage. It's when a person hasn't been asked to leave that it might be implied that you gave your permission for them to be there.

Ok, sorry, I missed the bit about where the dog was. You have contacted child services, maybe one option is to call the police if the child enters your property again after being told to keep out. I think you need to make sure that it is clear that the children do not have permission to be there and are not in your care. If you are seen to be walking one home by the hand, somebody might suggest that you are caring for it. Not sure, but that is what I would be worried about.

It seems like you could be doing more to prevent your dog being upset by what is happening outside your property, and to prevent it from hurting a very small child. Put it in your back yard. Think of it as a prevention issue instead of planning the attitude you will take if somebody else is hurt by your dog.

I will answer some of these because I agree with what Gayle has said. The best breeders will look at the achievements of a dog's ancestors, and try to find out as much as they can about the temperaments of the dogs in the lines. They will talk to other breeders and look at the current progeny of the lines. They will see what lines combine well and what don't. They will sometimes outcross and sometimes breed back to a line. It isn't IQ test type intelligence, it is how well the dog performs to the standard. This is measured in the show ring and involves conformation, gait, temperament, posture, and other things besides looks. The standard describes what a dog should be like to perform a task. A breeder of performance dogs will use performance as in indicator of excellence and use that to compare it to others of the breed. In some breeds like GSD or Border Collie, a dog's obedience or agility achievements might be highly valued and are important for breeders to know. ANKC and other registries for working dogs all register the dogs' achievements and pedigree information so that future breeders can use the information. Pedigrees do show colour, but more importantly they identify the dogs. Breeders should aim to know who is who in the top performers of their breed. That is where mentors are great and so is observation and reading. This website has a lot of information that breeders can look up about show dogs and their performance. It isn't just a discussion forum.

I don't see any point in perpetuating the myth that a mixed breed dog can have its breeding identified by the way it looks. This dog has so many 'average' characteristics that there could easily be a mix of dozens of breeds in its lineage. Most big baby puppies pretty much look a bit like a baby rottweiller because all pups tend to have a round head and curved ears. I am not angry about it at all, I just think these threads are counter-productive to people understanding how genetics works. The OP has explained how the dog will be labelled for sale, so everything is good there.

Maybe the illness from the tick bite is reducing the dog's tolerance towards other dogs?. I agree with getting expert help in management. It may be that the dog needs to be kept away from other dogs until he is well, but you also need help in learning to manage the aggression.

If you read my posts you will see that I am an advocate of the rehoming of suitable adult dogs that need rescue. I am warning against buying a cross breed pup, because you don't know how it will turn out as an adult. Pet quality is quite ok for pet owners. There is no hidden meaning there, pet quality means good enough to be a pet. Older purebreed dogs that didn't make it showing might also be pet quality, seeing as they have proved themselves not to be of show quality. An old breeding animal might also be of pet quality, or possibly of better quality than that. It would be unethical to sell a dog as a pet if it wasn't at least of pet quality. Any older dog can be assessed to see if it comes up to pet quality, and it can be assessed to determine what traits it has so that it can be placed in the right home. It can be assessed, desexed and sold as a pet to a suitable and qualified home, by rescue, or by it's own breeder. Nothing wrong with that, both can be good ways to get a dog. Most people that want dogs want them as pets, so we need dogs of at least pet quality to supply that market. We need good pure breeders. We don't need bybs randomly pumping unpredictable puppies into the market, because if the product doesn't meet the pet buyer's expectations, it will be dumped when the novelty wears off. Some of these cross breed dogs will not be suitable for rescue because they are not of pet quality, but some will be of pet quality and just need a home that suits them.

It depends on what you define as 'better'. You can carefully assess any adult dog, regardless of breeding, to determine it's worth according to a set criteria. You do find good pet dogs in ethical rescue, because if they get a bad dog come through, they will not put it up for sale. It's all about why you buy the dog. Cross breed dogs will never be better than pet quality, and so if your criteria is higher or more specific than pet quality, or you need breeding quality, you need to buy a purebreed dog. The logic works if you look at numbers. Careless breeding can produce a wide mix of desirable and undesirable traits, and only once the dog has grown up can you separate the wheat from the chaff. So inefficient and so tragic. Pure breeders are able by careful breeding to produce a much higher proportion of dogs of a specific quality, and they sell to a specific market that wants those qualities, and while there are no 100% guarantees, the numbers work in their favour.

Listing as anything other than a medium X would be misleading. You cannot tell what breeds are in that dog, it would be pointless to start guessing.

I have no idea what you are referring to. Perhaps you are confusing my posts with somebody else's?

Rescue is not a byb advocate. No matter what lies byb spread around to suit themselves. There are so many adult dogs needing homes compared to the number of homes available. These dogs need homes because whoever sold them in the first place didn't place the dog in the right home. The lucky few make it into rescue, the rest are killed. Most. Thousands every year. Byb do not produce litters unless they think they can sell all the pups, rescue does not really come into it. Remember that next time a byb talks shit about rescue. A person can be anti-byb, and still recognise that by sheer luck some of the dogs that byb produce will be excellent dogs. While it doesn't suit everyone to buy a rescue dog, you cannot blame the dog for how it was produced, it deserves to be assessed on its own merits. Buying from rescue does not support byb or any other type of breeding. It just prevents a dog being put to sleep. They are what the product is they promote, if an organisation markets Royal Canin dog food then obviously they support that product is what I mean, but when it comes down to trying on guilt trips to save a BYB which has been said to me many times, "why don't I get a nice dog from rescue instead of a pure breed puppy from a registered breeder", I don't want a BYB as the OP said, I didn't breed these poor dogs on death row, I hate that breeding system and would like to strangle some BYB'ers to be honest when so many doggy lives are taken by their stupidity of random breedings, I know rescues do it for the dogs and that I admire, but they are still peddling the BYB product for the most part?. Another way I can explain my point, ok people know I am into dogs and often ask me about what they should do and BYB's often pop up, adds in the trading post, on the notice board at the shops, petshops whatever, but if they ask my advice I always steer them to a registered breeder of the breed or type of dog they like, no compromises, if they like the Labrador for example, ok lets talk to some experienced Lab breeders, I have helped many people seek breeders out, my vision is if you are serious about a dog, do it properly and get what you really want. Hey, I don't visit rescue's because I would take something home, I am as bigger sucker for that doggy face as every other dog lover regardless of breed, X breed or BYB, but the BYB system sucks IMHO and goes against my grain to support their products. So once I get someone to the point of understanding that getting what they want from an experienced and reputable breeder is the way to go, I have been through the BYB thing, petshops and why it's best not to purchase from them, health tests, unknown parentage and faults in the bloodlines etc ect, they find a reputable rescue online peddling BYB's and crossbreeds......"oh yeah but this place here with all the nice pictures say these BYB's are lovely dogs looking for a home", then they are back on the Trading Post adds looking at BYB Labs for half registered breeder price They don't want a dog from rescue, but because rescue are promoting BYB products, they think BYB must be a good thing in that case.........does what I am saying make any sense or is my thought process a bit warped Anyway Merry Chistmas everyone, I need to go to bed ready for the big day What you are saying shows that you don't understand why you are sending people to regsitered breeders to buy pups. Health tests, knowing the parentage, DNA tests etc are very important , because they allow a dog buyer to buy a puppy with the best possible potentlal. Potential is the only thing they can measure. Whether that dog ever reaches it's potential cannot be known, but buy buying one of these ethically bred pups you have the best chance. So that is what ethical breeders so. They do it to try to predict the future of the pup. An adult rescue dog has already reached its potential. It is what it is. Too late to care about what it's parents hip scores were because we can look at the dog in front of us and see what its hips are like. The future has arrived for the dog, guess work isn't needed. The tests that can be done on adult dogs are to determine what the dog is, and it is like, and are far more reliable than any breeder's test on a dog to see what it's puppies will probably be like in the future if they are raised perfectly. Rescue do not push byb dogs. Their product is DOGS. And even random cross breeding has a chance of producing some good dogs amongst the average and the bad ones. Byb have no quality control at all. They often sell really bad pups. Ethical breeders have quality control, they do all they can to sell good pups. Good rescue has good quality control, as all dogs are tested thoroughly. Buying a pup off a rescue is more of a risk, but it's still cheaper than byb. Don't you understand? Pumping out quanities of poor quality pups and carelessly placing them means that there is a huge number of dogs that never make it past about nine months of age. They are dumped in shelters and pounds in their thousands in Australia. Rescue make a decsion to take the best of these poor dumped dogs, retrain them, assess them, and match that dog's temperament with its new owner. If you still don't understand, you might need to spend some time down at your loacl pound. Look at the dogs and know that most of them will die. They will die because they were not placed correctly in the first place. BYB did that to them. Rescue try to save a few of these dogs, the best of these dogs. How anyone can say that it helps byb in any way is beyond me. Byb don't have a clue what happens to most of their dogs after sale, and don't care what happens to dogs nobody wants. Next time anyone tells you that rescue will place their unsold pups, you might like to tell them what a pathetic and horrible piece of crap they are for choosing to burden a rescue organisation. To make more work for rescue. Don't just swallow whatever the byb tell you.

It depends how you want to use the answers. If you cannot use the answer, it is pointless to ask the question. If you ask too many questions, or they seem pointless or invasive, people won't answer them. For the first question, I don't know if you are asking who they bought the dog from, or where they saw it advertised. Maybe it needs to be two questions, or maybe one or the other. If you are going to give multiple choice, don't expect people to always know whether they went to a breeder or a registered breeder. There are differences between breed rescue, rescue organisations that foster, and shelters, I wouldn't categorise them all togther. You may be better to let people fill in written answers about where they got the dog and what sort of dog it is, whether it came with a pedigree etc, and then use your own knowledge to work out which are the registered purebreeds, the byb purebreds, the designer dogs etc. Then when you ask whether people would buy from the same place again you have the information needed to get a meaningful answer on that. You can also use marketing surveys to suggest options for future purchase. But before you go down that path be really clear about what you want to gain from the survey.

Rescue is not a byb advocate. No matter what lies byb spread around to suit themselves. There are so many adult dogs needing homes compared to the number of homes available. These dogs need homes because whoever sold them in the first place didn't place the dog in the right home. The lucky few make it into rescue, the rest are killed. Most. Thousands every year. Byb do not produce litters unless they think they can sell all the pups, rescue does not really come into it. Remember that next time a byb talks shit about rescue. A person can be anti-byb, and still recognise that by sheer luck some of the dogs that byb produce will be excellent dogs. While it doesn't suit everyone to buy a rescue dog, you cannot blame the dog for how it was produced, it deserves to be assessed on its own merits. Buying from rescue does not support byb or any other type of breeding. It just prevents a dog being put to sleep.

Ok, we critisize backyard breeders, but then project a guilt trip for not adopting them through rescue Rescue and shelters do a great job, I admire their dedication and work, but to me it sends back a message to the BYB there are organisations out there marketing and promoting their stock so BYB'ing must be a good thing? I hate that fact that some BYB,er can run a litter of crossbreeds and I have asked some of these people what are you going to do with the pups, do you have homes for them, "oh it doesn't matter one told me, I will take them to some rescue/shelter, they will be able to find homes for them" Ggrr, that pisses me off so much, just do a litter and then handball it to someone else to avoid responsibility for the irresponsible actions of bringing doggy lives into the world for no valid reason, I have a real problem with that Rescues mainly deal with the byb dogs after they have grown up and are not so cute. The vast majority of dogs needing homes fall into this category. There is no overpopulation of pups, no shortage of takers there, but there is a big overpopulation of adult dogs that are no longer wanted. The lucky few of these will end up in rescue. At an older age, a dog can be assessed carefully to know its temperament and have tests to make sure it is healthy. If because of poor breeding or poor rearing or a combination of both it is not suitable to be somebody's pet, an ethical rescue org will not sell that dog as a pet. Where as those buying a puppy of unknown breeding have to wait until the pup matures to find out if the dog is sound and healthy and of a good nature. Those buying a well-bred pup, and raising it well, have a much better chance of ending up with a good dog than those buying byb pups. But the best way to assess whether a dog is a good dog in all respects is to assess it as an adult. So buying an adult dog (from breeder or rescue) can make a lot of sense if proper assessment is done. What you see is what you get. as the dog is fully developed. Yes, some byb do drop unsold pups off at a shelter or pound, but that does not mean they will get homes, it's what they want you to think will happen. What else are they going to tell you?

That sounds quite ok. Turkey is fine for dogs, as long as the bones have been removed. Just stick to the same quantity as you would normally feed, and no fatty or oily bits.

I am starting this topic because I think a lot of people might want their dog to be celebrating Christmas with them. Unfortunately, a lot of dogs end up very very sick and at the vets because they ate the wrong leftovers. Be careful of what you and your guests are feeding the dog. It is so important not to give the dog all the fatty off-cuts of meat. Any more than a spoonful of fat can cause some problems, not to mention a tummy ache for the dog. A little bit of ham is ok, but no more than a few grams. Turkey is great. But cooked turkey bones can cause real problems as they can splinter into shards that might perforate a dog's insides. Please add to this list of what is ok to feed the dog, what should be fed with caution, and what things you need to keep right away from the dog this Christmas.

Selection and culling are a far greater influence of breed than cross breeding. You need to ask if it's ethical to start a new breed that will require hundreds of dogs to be bred that do not have suitable traits just to produce a breed that does. I guess if you were a sheep farmer that moves to a new country where traditional breeds couldn't cope as well with climate or terrain it might be worth considering. But for pets? That is unethical. There are already dozens of breeds with all sorts of traits available. Same with protection dogs. There is no need in this country for people to be developing new protection breeds at all, and crossing a doberman with a rottweiler seems an especially inefficient way to do it given the dissimilarity of conformation and temperament. You have to wonder whether colour was an influence in choice of breeds.

This is a dangerous thing to do. So many children get bitten on the face by the family dog because their parents allowed them to get close to a dog that is eating a bone. I'm not sure why you are here? You ignore what dog experts are advising and tell us you know better, even though you can't even train a dog not to jump. So you seem destined to repeat all the mistakes you made the first time, but with a dog that may be snappier and even more energetic. I feel sorry for the dog and your kids. You don't need to ask us what crate to buy, go ask at the crate shop where at least they are paid to deal with people like you.

Weasels, breeding unregistered dogs is unethical because the lines won't go anywhere and cannot contribute to the wider breed genepool. Cross-breeding to produce certain traits will give you a lot of random pups that don't possess those traits, and can take many generations of selecting out undesirable traits to result in a breed that can be predictable. That is a lot of random pups produced in an effort to produce a better working dog. Even outcrossing within a breed can take two generations before seeing a good result. I don't believe that crossing two working dogs that are not of the same type will mean that any of the pups will be able to do a job as well as either of the parents, because mixing the genes of breeds with such different conformations is likely to result in a bone/muscle structure that is not like either parent. Dobermans and Rottweilers have very different conformations compared to the much smaller differences in some other breeds. Do we need a breed of better working dogs? I don't think Jacqui has identified what makes her dog so much better as a pet than any other average dog. It is up to the people cross breeding to prove that what they are doing is worth years of culling or selling the failures as pets and, it's up to them to prove that what they are breeding has qualities not found in any other breed. Unless they can show good reason to cross breed, all they are doing is filling the pet market with dogs that are not measurably any different from any other cross bred dog. I am not totally against the idea of breeds opening their stud books for a time if there is a specific need to do so, and the ANKC approves. But it means that a lot of pups will be produced that have a range of traits (including incorrect traits) for several generations. These are the pups you would avoid buying if you were claiming to be searching for a dog with very specific breed traits or abilities. They will not be as predictable as purebred dogs and shouldn't be used as an example of a purebreed.

Jacqui if you don't want me to respond to what you write, please don't quote me and then write a whole lot of garbage directed at my posts. This is your choice to come out and argue with me. Cross breeding in the way that your dog's breeder is doing is unethical. And you are a fool for believing it has allowed you to be discerning in your choice of pups. All it has done is randomised the traits in the offspring. Your comments about health testing in pet rescue dog, comparing it to genetic testing of breeding stock, shows that you really have no idea why health tests are done at all. If you did a lot more reading and a lot less arguing with me, you might find your experience here more enjoyable. You might learn things from the huge number of ethical dog breeders sharing their information, and have fewer problems with an increasing number of non-supporters.