Greytmate

You didn't choose your baby. Unless you went to an overseas orphanage to select a baby, or through the black market baby trade, you got whatever baby came out of your body and you will love it regardless of any faults it may have. Even if it has some pretty bad faults. Hormones can make you do that. You have no choice. Not necessarily. There are many mothers who choose not to love their babies. Some give them up, some just can not bond with them, others abuse them. I have chosen to love my baby. I may not always like him (especially when he poops on me) but I still love him I don't think it's a choice as much as a combination of a lot of things. How many normal well-adjusted adults do you know who would choose to give away their baby to somebody else? Those that give up babies usually have other issues in their lives which mean that they are unable to cope with motherhood. And many find that when they do they have a lifetime of regret because their "mother love" never goes away.

You didn't choose your baby. Unless you went to an overseas orphanage to select a baby, or through the black market baby trade, you got whatever baby came out of your body and you will love it regardless of any faults it may have. Even if it has some pretty bad faults. Hormones can make you do that. You have no choice.

It makes more sense biologically to love a baby than a pet. To keep the species alive. That is why the baby hormones can have such a strong effect on some people, and it can override all other considerations. Like the fact that the baby may be disturbing people who are just as entitled to quiet enjoyment of space as the mother and baby are. Like the way that annoyance is shown if somebody even mentions that they do not want to sit next to a baby on a long haul flight.

At what age do babies get a personality would you say? Or are all human beings simply moody, impulsive creatures with no control over themselves? Personality develops over a person's life. Generally development slows after a person reaches maturity.

Yes it is. Have you heard the saying that "Love is Blind" ? What do you think that is about?

Why should I respect you? Because you had a baby? Hormones are hormones, I can't control the effect they have on you, I am just an observer.

And now everyone reading the topic notices your lack of understanding, and we can all laugh at your inability to follow a thread.

Babies are very noisy a lot of the time, and smelly a lot of the time and are pretty boring. They can't speak, they can't move properly and do nothing for me. But you say I am shallow because I can't find anything to appreciate in other people's babies? What can babies do that is so good? They cannot do any of the things that make adults appealing and good to be around. They don't even have a personality, they just have moods and impulses that they don't control. I think it is shallow when hormones take over parents' brains and suddenly this weak, noisy, smelly, boring, greedy thing is suddenly more important than anything and anyone else in the world. There is nothing appealing to me about babies, they are grotty, loud and annoying.Your affection is all in your head, and caused by the hormones designed to keep the species alive. Like a dog acting on its instincts to bury a bone, there is no deeper intellectual basis for you liking your baby, or you having a shot at the people that don't. As I said it is the open dislike that is hard to understand. For rudeness you actually get an "A" this morning. I imagine that you find quite a lot of things hard to understand.

The pictures were clear enough. The screen shots were clear enough. If you couldn't make anything out of them that tells us you do not have much experience or skill in analysing dog behaviour. That is ok, but it means your opinion on the incident doesn't matter. You didn't understand what was going on anyway. We do not know what other dog-control options are available to people in New Orleans. I respect people with opinions other than my own if they are put forward with a logical supporting argument. I do not respect the opinion of people that do not understand the subject, but have a go at those that do. I think Telida's posts have been informative, and although she has not changed the opinion of the zealous, she has been able to explain the behaviour to the people that are interested in knowing what it all means before forming an opinion. That is the great thing about these forums, people can be educated, and then use that knowledge to avoid problems. It is not required that they all post here to agree or disagree. People can do their own further research if they feel that they need to verify any of the assessments made here about the dog behaviour.

Babies are very noisy a lot of the time, and smelly a lot of the time and are pretty boring. They can't speak, they can't move properly and do nothing for me. But you say I am shallow because I can't find anything to appreciate in other people's babies? What can babies do that is so good? They cannot do any of the things that make adults appealing and good to be around. They don't even have a personality, they just have moods and impulses that they don't control. I think it is shallow when hormones take over parents' brains and suddenly this weak, noisy, smelly, boring, greedy thing is suddenly more important than anything and anyone else in the world. There is nothing appealing to me about babies, they are grotty, loud and annoying.Your affection is all in your head, and caused by the hormones designed to keep the species alive. Like a dog acting on its instincts to bury a bone, there is no deeper intellectual basis for you liking your baby, or you having a shot at the people that don't.

I wouldn't want to sit next to the incontinent person on the plane that communicates through wailing loudly, no matter how old they are. That isn't about a dislike of children, it is about comfort in an enclosed and poorly ventilated space.

When so many responsible breeders of bull-breeds state that 'socialisation' is extremely important in raising of these pups, why are we so surprised to see examples of these dogs that do not behave socially? Socialisation is not about allowing your dominating dog to go out and challenge other dogs and calling that normal. It is about training a dog during the critical socialisation phase and doing all we can to see that our dog learns to behave appropriately with other dogs. But sometimes socialisation isn't effective and a dog will still behave according to its deeper instincts. So then it is about recognising anti-social behaviour in our own dogs and putting a stop to it through training, or simply through good responsible management. Keeping the dog under control by keeping it on lead or enclosed in a yard.

If you feed pets human-grade food instead of meat-byproduct, they do consume more than their share of our world's resources. But I don't think children should be fed meat by-product or other waste food. If they were, our population would be more sustainable.

I don't understand this. Only people who decide to have a child are going to be able to bring it up "me, me" style. Those of us who have no kids did not breed these selfish children. If a child is brought up in a 'me, me' style, or if children are considered the "me, me" generation why would anyone else want to be near them? If you think it is important to have extended family around kids, there is your reason why I should never have any. I am glad we live in a society that values individualism more than valuing traditional patriarchal family structures. It means that people like me that don't have the biological urge to breed are not trapped in a hideous life in servitude of the children we were expected to have.

Not everyone has posted their opinions. Most people just read this and don't offer an opinion on every topic. While some people have put forward plenty of opinions based on their affection for the breed, others have been able to post information to help educate DOLers on canine communication and behaviour. No we can't change your opinion, but we can provide information for people that are interested in learning how to avoid dogs that are behaving dominantly or aggressively. So for that reason the topic was worthwhile and valuable and worth discussing, and there is more that could be discussed if people want to do that.

That is why I do better with videos than descriptions. :)

I just want to say something else very important about dog behaviour. Possibly not relevant but I will say it anyway. Dogs sniffing each other's bums is good. Please everyone stop telling your dog off for smelling another dog's bum. It isn't disgusting. It is the doggy way to say "Hi! How are you today?" It is normal, social and therefore desirable. :)

Good topic. In your first post you asked where the line is. I just wanted to say that 'the line' can change, and calm dogs are always going to be easier to control and predict the behaviour of than aroused dogs with their hackles up. Calming dogs down is always good (unless you are specifically training in drive). I find it easier to analyse behaviour on a video than by a description. If anyone wants to post vids they would be an interesting as a basis for discussion. I will post the handy charts though. :)

It is not hard at all to read the behaviour of most short coated dogs including bull breeds. Especially when it is captured on video. That is my opinion. All dog breeds use pretty much the same body language as is shown on the chart. All domestic canines and some non-domestic ones as well. That isn't my opinion, it is science.

No it doesn't mean that. This is what is on the website. You could read the document before you decide whether to worry or not. I'm all for discouraging irresponsible dog ownership and being proactive so that potential problems don't become real ones.

The dog bows twice but the body language in that video isn't playful at all. The dog moves rigidly as in prey drive with a high tail, rather than loosely and bouncily as it would if in relaxed play. The playful dog will go from side to side as it avoids eye contact. That dog was focussed. There is a big difference in how a dog plays with another dog, and a dog that plays with a toy or other prey item. Many of us would have seen it in dogs and recognise that sort of prey/play in this video. Have a look at the chart to see the difference between a true play bow, a stalking posture and the prey bow. Unfortunately the cartoons cannot capture the minutiae or the motion of the dog. But it's pretty clear that the dog was up to no good.

I can read my dogs pretty well actually. I know when he is happy, anxious etc, although I am the only person in my house that can. The OH has no idea. There are only a few things that I don't entirely understand but we will be going to training to fix that anyway. Bella on the other hand doesn't have an aggressive bone in her body and I have never had any concerns yet. I find it scary that there are so many seemingly trigger happy people... I am glad you don't live in my neighbourhood.. there would be dead dogs everywhere ;) :laugh: Good, you be very scared of us then. Lock up your pitbulls. Don't be too sure you will learn how to understand dog communication at training. Behaviour assessment is a different frield than behaviour modification. You will be lucky if that sort of thing is discussed during training, even if you are fortunate enough to have an instructor who understands it themselves. I posted a chart here the other week about canine postures, I will have a look around when I get home tonight and see whatother resources I can find. It's probably worth doing a seperate thread, as the ''language'' is common to all dogs.

No, I disagree. I think the more educated people are about dog body language, the easier it is to see that the dog was a threat. The dog isn't playing nicely, it is terrorising another dog. By identifying all the different positions of the legs, chest, head, neck, ears, tail and body, and the way that the postures change, we can very accurately make a call on the dog's demeanor. Anyone can learn to read dog, and dogs don't lie. I find it really scary that so many bull-breed owners (not all) are so ignorant about this. I wonder if they are really that clueless, or whether they are just here to stir. What it means is that they are in charge of something they cannot properly control, and that's dangerous for teh rest of us dog owners. F11 was right, this behaviour is often a precurser to worse behaviour. Maybe not today or tomorrow, but it is almost inevitable that a dog posturing like that will eventually end up in a dog fight.

Grooming wise I disagree. Neither of my dogs need much. Nails when the need it (every 1-2 months), same with ears, a brush over with the Zoom Groom when they're shedding (once a month if they're lucky, usually less), the Ridgie gets a bath when he smells or is having a decent hair shed, the Mali gets bathed only when she coats herself in mud. Wouldn't call either of them 'low maintenance' though. :p OP, I think what you are looking for is a medium - short coated, low drive, companion dog. Yes. Coat maintenance can vary a lot with different breeds, and some are extremely low maintenance. We don't even own any grooming scissors or clippers. My dogs get a bath 2 or 3 times a year and don't really get brushed very much in between. They drop very little hair. We certainly never get tumbleweeds or anything that looks 3D. Just a few hairs on the floor to vacuum up weekly. Very low maintenance. I pat them to check for skin problems, because they don't need weekly brushing. It sounds like a retired greyhound could suit the OP perfectly, but only if they got one that had been assessed with penned chooks. Some of them are not interested in birds at all. The important thing is to get one from a reliable organisation that carefully assesses their dogs. The chook pen would need to be secure and the property would need fencing of at least 1.2 metres high. Very, very quiet, good with kids, non-destructive and not especially prone to anxiety or escaping. Low maintenance, physically sound and very few health problems. They only need a minimal amount of exercise compared to most dogs to keep them happy and prevent them from getting into habits like digging.

I wonder if people would be happy to pay extra registration? To fund the instant-response Team Pitbull Crack Squad. Dog getting ripped apart by a Pitbull? Don't call police, they are useless with dogs. Don't call council, too slow. Call Team Pitbull. JUst post your call for help here, and the Team will be on the case ready to defend the Pitbull and explain how it is only just playing a game. Then they will tie a pretty pink ribbon around it's neck and simply remove it from the situation.