Greytmate

This exactly! I have a DA dog (fear based) and he gets no pleasure being too close to strange dogs. He loves to play with my other dogs and in no way is he missing out on anything because he can't socialise with random dogs. My dog isnt DA off lead, but i think teaching him to interact with other dogs is important as what if something goes wrong one day. He escapes the yard, i trip drop the lead?? If you have a DA dog you have to make sure these things don't happen. Most DA dogs can't be taught to interact in a friendly way, the training that is done to help the dog is about managing things so that interaction with other dogs is avoided and so that the DA dogs threshold is raised to cope with being able to be near other dogs. Actual interaction with other dogs isn't recommended for dogs that are DA. Too dangerous. Thats a nice thought but s**t happens. Thats like saying you must make sure your never in a car accident. Nice in theory but not possible. My dog has never got away from me, never escaped. How many times has he been charged by off lead dogs?? 7 in 1 year. So while preventing the situation is important so is getting yourself some level of calm to deal with the rest of the population. Yes shit happens. I guess it is like a car accident, if you choose to own a car with brake problems you are in serious trouble if that causes an accident. Same if your DA dog gets loose and hurts other dogs. But that isn't the point. The point is that socialisation doesn't help DA dogs. It can actually make them worse. So if you have a dog with problems professionals help. Don't take it near other dogs or try to socialise it yourself.

This exactly! I have a DA dog (fear based) and he gets no pleasure being too close to strange dogs. He loves to play with my other dogs and in no way is he missing out on anything because he can't socialise with random dogs. My dog isnt DA off lead, but i think teaching him to interact with other dogs is important as what if something goes wrong one day. He escapes the yard, i trip drop the lead?? If you have a DA dog you have to make sure these things don't happen. Most DA dogs can't be taught to interact in a friendly way, the training that is done to help the dog is about managing things so that interaction with other dogs is avoided and so that the DA dogs threshold is raised to cope with being able to be near other dogs. Actual interaction with other dogs isn't recommended for dogs that are DA. Too dangerous.

Ok I read all this but can you tell me what the difference is in say a private rescue. Someone that has no problems doing what you say the orgs do but on a smaller scale? You either operate as a private rehomer and adopt out dogs under your own name or you start an organisation or business and run the rescue under that structure and accept all applicable incorporation or business laws. You seem to assume that only larger rescues need to do this, but the majority of rescue orgs in Australia are run on a micro scale and may have few or no volunteers. There is no category of business in Australia that allows you to fundraise or sell animals under an organisation name without being subject to a lot of laws and standards that do not apply to a private individual selling a dog in their own name. Read Steve's post again to learn more about what needs to be done to be considered an ethical organisation. All the things you say you want to do (except involve other people in your rescue) are things that a good ethical private rehomer would do.

It is a pretty good analogy, although even baking stuff for a fundraiser is a little more regulated in some jurisdictions than baking for friends. There are many people who privately rehome adult dogs. Some are show dog people who might rehome a dog they have run on because it doesn't suit their breeding program, and some are greyhound owners who place their retired racers that are not suited for breeding with. Some are just pet owners who need to rehome their own dog for some unfortunate reason. As long as these dogs have good pet temperaments and are healthy and desexed, there is nothing wrong with them doing this and it is good that thes owners take responsibility for finding good homes for their dogs. The people who do this generally do not ask for or accept any help or resources from outsiders, as they regard it as their own responsibility and their own business. There are some people who do this with dogs they have rescued. They have one dog at a time, they register it in their own name while they foster it, and they work totally independently. As long as the number of dogs sold each year is low, and the number kept is below limits, council generally has no problem with this. The people choose to work alone like this do so generally because they do not want to have to answer to other people, and that is fine as long as their actions don't affect anyone else. Anyway that is my take on what private rehomers do, although other people might have different experiences with those who do this. The difference between what these people do and what an organisation does is quite substantial. Some are because of regulations and some are to do with community expectations. Keeping in mind that rescue is unregulated enough to allow some very bad practices to happen, you would use Steve's guidelines to avoid a situation where angry people are coming after you. A rescue org is expected to be open to enquiries from the public and from surrenderers and to return all calls and emails. For a gh rescue it means often being lied to and emotionally blackmailed by unscrupulous industry people and others looking to offload dogs with a minimum of guilt and cost. The pressure is great and so that is why all gh rescue orgs have to develop a strict policy on how to intake dogs fairly. And before you know it, you have a waiting list. Just like the big orgs do. Except the little orgs cannot process and rehome dogs as quickly as the bigger orgs and that can lead to even more grief from people pressuring you to take dogs. A private rehomer can avoid this because they do not call themselves a rescue org or promote themslves as a rescue org and so there is no expectation that they will take in surrenders from anyone. They control where they choose to take their next dog from and do not have to be seen to be fair. It's their own business. A rescue org must have a rigorous systems of referal of all problems to qualified professionals. To avoid being sued for negligence, any legal advice, veterinary advice, behavioural advice, etc must be provided by people with a professional qualification. While orgs are run by volunteers and staffed by volunteers, their knowledge and experience counts for nothing if they are taken to court. So organisations must have access to a network of professionals that they trust for advice on anything remotely doubtful. Ethical private rehomers will use professionals like vets too, but private rehomers are not treated like businesses if taken to court. As an individual, there isn't the expectation that they follow best practice or any particular process As long as they don't lie or withhold information from buyers they are not likely to be held to the same high expectations as rescue orgs are. Organisations need to have clear policies about who they adopt to so as not to be accused of being discriminatory or unfair. The public often get confused between organisations so if one org has an overly tough or confusing policy then it can lead to people being frustrated with rescue as a whole. A private rehomer doesn't need a policy. They can sell their dog to whoever they feel like selling it to, with no apologies to anyone. Organisations must be able to work under privacy laws which mean that information on people must be stored appropriately and controlled. Private rehomers do not have to worry so much about this as they are not keeping that sort of information on people aside from people who adopt a dog. Organisations get constant enquiries from people needing advice about rescue dogs. They have a responsibility to provide the advice or refer to somebody that can help. Private rehomers do not have to field these enquiries and are not expected to be experts on rescue or on the breed. They are not expected to hold a particular stance on racing and don't get grief from those who are against that particular stance. They don't have to answer question like that. Organisations need to be able to deal with the fruit loops out there who are eager to foster but are found not to be suitable for fostering. They need to have a way to closely monitor and support all carers, and that may include drastic things like driving out to pick up a dog with no notice, or dealing with an injured dog where the carer has chosen to have it treated at the most expensive vet surgery in town instead of at the vet that you have an account with. Without a system in place for monitoring and training the carers, things just go wrong sooner or later. With dogs that have been institutionalised working dogs (greyhounds), there are particular problems that carers need to be educated about for them to rehabilitate these dogs into good housepets. Private rehomers don't use carers and so don't have to run a foster care program. The only dogs they are responsible for are their own and they use individual judgement to train the dog in their own way and match it to the right home. Organisations in Australia are pretty much regarded as businesses and the successful ones are run like that. Even orgs with only a few people in them. That's why a business plan is an essential tool to keep things on track. I'm sorry if this has been a bit rambly. I don't have my computer so have to type this on a phone so please excuse any errors. If you want to run an organisation and raise funds and promote dogs, you need to properly understand a lot of different categories of legal requirements, you need a reliable network of professionals that are willing to work with you at different times, you need to understand the culture of the racing industry, you need to understand how to make judgements on old racing injuries and have a basic knowledge of greyhound anatomy and common ailments, and you need to understand the culture and expectations of the community and dog buyers. If you want to do this the best way to start to learn is by fostering for a successful organisation and then helping them promote or fundraise. But if you don't want to answer to anyone else about what you do, and if all that you say about yourself is true, then there is no reason why you shouldn't rehome your friend's dogs privately. Prepare the dog for life as a pet and advertise it for sale in the classifieds with just your private contact details. There's probably more I could say on this but I'm finding it a bit hard to type on the phone, so if there is a particular area you want me to explain further I will do do when I have access to a computer again. This is my own interpretation of how different methods of rehoming work , so others may feel differently or have different ideas about it. But I hope that it has made it a little clearer about why so many people have spoken up, and given you realistic options to pursue your passion for helping greyhounds.

That's a good question because the difference is quite large. Steve has given you a broad overview of what sorts of things need to be considered in order for an organisation to avoid trouble. I am busy today but will try to get back here tonight with a list of examples of what an individual would do to rehome a dog and how that differs from what an organisation is required to do. I will also be able to explain the different expectations the community has of the two.

But I haven't been repeating myself. Every time I have posted I have included further information. I would rather speak up about potential problems than wait and complain when things go wrong. There is a lot that the op needs to be aware of to avoid the type of problems that burn adopters and carers. It would be impossible for me to try to describe them all here, it takes time and help from those who know greyhounds well. To set up an organisation is to attract public attention. The op seems to underestimate her ability to make an impact in the community and over estimate the size of other organisations in the rescue scene. So to move on with this topic I would ask grylver why she needs to start an organisation instead of rehoming privately? If she wants to work on a small scale with one breeder then private rehoming is appropriate for now. If somebody starts an organisation then then the community expectations are going to be a lot higher.

A old dog is not going to change through socialization, but may benefit from desensitization. In the absence of the guidance from a good trainer or behaviorist, you possibly could help this lady if you understand the concept of gradual desensitization and keeping her dog below its threshold, and you have the ability to take charge of the situation. Otherwise I would be very wary of putting your own dog in that situation. Its a shame that this anti social dog was adopted to somebody that really wants a friendly dog.

I'm not talking about myself plan B I am talking about greyhound rescue. Why don't you have anything to add to the topic? Or are you just here to make nasty comments to ridicule people who have valid concerns? You don't seem to have anything much to say that is relevant.

Oh, come off it. Greylvr has actually shown a lot of restraint in this thread. There are a lot of people who would not have bitten their tongue so much and that doesn't mean those people aren't fit to run a rescue. Greylvr has said she doesn't want to continue. You don't have to like it but the constant baiting is just ridiculous. She didn't say that she didn't want to continue only that she had finished with the thread. Although that was untrue. The questions raised here have been pretty tame compared to the questions asked of people working within the industry to rehome greyhounds. The questions I was asked by government while I was lobbying for muzzle laws to be changed were even tougher. Some people think it's ridiculous that Pound Rounds are questioned about their practices, but they would be the people with no idea about the potential for things to go wrong. Do you have anything to say on topic or did you join in just to have a go at me?

Call it private rehoming and not an organisation and everyone will sleep well.

You seemed to have become frustrated very easily and this doesn't bode well for somebody wanting to run a rescue org. You are not obliged to answer anyone's questions here but keep in mind that transparency is one of the ways that ethical rescue is judged. The reason that so many people have put pressure on you here is because you want to start an organisation and that is something that has an effect on the whole rescue landscape in Australia. There is nothing wrong with people rehoming dogs privately in the manner that you intend to do it. It's what dog breeders do and it's what some greyhound people do. Advertising individual good quality dogs for adoption in online classifieds or newspapers. If people want a dog and they don't want to get it from a rescue they can buy a pet this way, and you can put as many terms and conditions on the sale as you want. However if you set up an organisation instead of doing your own private thing, you will be up for intense scrutiny because rescue organisations attract public interest and any mistakes you make will harm the reputation of all greyhound rescue. Something that is not nearly as popular in Australia as it is in the US or UK. Muzzle laws are new and if there are any negative greyhound incidents that make news then these new laws might be declared a failure and repealed. There is so much at stake here. If you set up an organisation and attract foster carers then there is a massive risk that they will be burned just like you were or worse because you do not understand the pressures of greyhound rescue, the problems the dogs are likely to have, or the expectations of the community. Work alone if you cannot deal with the type of questioning you get here and you will be left alone as long as you cause no problems. But if you set up an organisation pretending to be the expert on greyhound rescue when clearly you are not, and compete with good rescue for scant resources , then don't expect everyone to be happy about that.

The higher the dirt mounds the lower the sound frequency needs to be to carry over it. So the higher pitched annoying tones are lost. But it's only really effective for acoustics if the mounds completely surround the kennel. It would be worth paying for a consult with an acoustic engineer before spending up big on a solution.

If you have no interest in fostering, how are you going to recruit any foster carers? Can you sell an idea that you have no interest in yourself? Many of the newer rescue groups were started by gap carers who then went out and started new orgsnisations to fill a niche that they saw. But what niche in the adoption market are you aiming for? Your own qualifications are not all that impressive compared to those who are leading the way in greyhound adoption. Maybe time to lose the ego and spend some months (not days) learning about the current situation before entering the market yourself. Some people love to foster and I dont need to sell anyone on an idea if they want to foster they will I wont twist people's arms to foster those type of foster homes usually dont work out. Most Australians have no idea what foster care is until it is explained to them and they are sold on the benefits of doing it. A few of us have explained why there is a logic problem with that. An series of individuals doing things on their own can not achieve as much as a team. The length of the wait for the dogs to get into the programs is determined by how many carers are available. So by fostering for them you reduce the wait and fewer dogs miss out. Both groups are very effective at what they do. How can you be sure of what you know nothing about? You are putting fulfilling your own needs over the needs of the dogs I think. I and others are asking you to spend a decent amount of time learning about what is needed for Australian dogs. To put aside ego to be able to take on suggestions from others and learn before you start up an organisation that will be spreading information to other people in the community. You say that you won't be badmouthing other rescue groups but you have done it throughout this thread. And you don't have the information needed to provide the level of service that is expected from adopters. Not yet and not by a very long way. Did you start the thread for advice or for the accolades? This is a rescue discussion forum and serious issues are discussed. If you want lollipops and rainbows you would announce it in general discussion where you will get more people knowing little about dogs or greyhounds who will be happy to hear your plans. What we want from you is a little respect that we have made the effort to talk about the issues you will be facing, and for you to take the advice which is to learn from those who do it well before you open for business. Nobody has said you should never open a rescue. Quite a few have said that you don't seem to be aware of the problems you are very likely to face and so the method you prefer to operate may not work for you like you think it will. Where as you refuse to see any good in advice that is different from what you expected. You would get support if people believed you had the ability to run a greyhound program well. But I think that it is likely that your mistakes could negatively impact the reputation of greyhound rescue and that can put people off adopting. Nobody wants that to happen.

If you have no interest in fostering, how are you going to recruit any foster carers? Can you sell an idea that you have no interest in yourself? Many of the newer rescue groups were started by gap carers who then went out and started new orgsnisations to fill a niche that they saw. But what niche in the adoption market are you aiming for? Your own qualifications are not all that impressive compared to those who are leading the way in greyhound adoption. Maybe time to lose the ego and spend some months (not days) learning about the current situation before entering the market yourself.

Yes I know, but usually when people sign a contract they try to stick to it. I am not sure why my asking people to do this equates to me not being a good rescue, I can tell you really really don't want us to do this I just cant understand why. Why are we so bad? Why are we not capable of running a good rescue and helping dogs. Do you give all new rescues this much trouble or just greyhound ones? I have been involved in dogs since I Was 15 and volunteering at a vet, I spent all my adult life working for vets, going to school to be a vet tech, working at shelters and humane societies, running rescues. I think maybe its just you dont understand how dedicated I am to helping animals its not a hobby for me its a passion. You need to read what I actually wrote and not imagine things. There are plenty of things for you to think about that you don't seem to have considered very well. Least of which is how your group is going to fill a different need to the others. Gap victoria do have a handle on what the laws are. They have been around longer than some of the laws that apply to organizations that sell dogs and have worked hard to successfully lobby for laws to improve to help greyhound adoption. If you are so dedicated and passionate about doing this well you shouldnt be taking such offence at people who are giving you good advice.

Somehow my being ever so diligent with bull breeds has been equated to me adopting out aggressive dogs and for some reason people have come to the conclusion that I am not worthy or good enough to rescue and re-home greyhounds. Where I may very well have a ton more experience with dogs, and rescue than many of these other rescues that are out there but not being given a chance is pretty un-fair. Maybe other rescue groups have done wrong and caused harm but I assure you I will not be one of those. Shouldn't it be in the contract that when an adopter moves the rescue is let known so they can update their records? How else do you do follow ups? I leave my adoptions open for us to follow up any time. I like to know where my dogs are, what happens if say you see a dog in a shelter web site in QLD that looks a lot like a dog you placed but they lived in Vic would you not want to know they moved to QLD so you can make sure that if a dog does get out and picked up you can take the steps to help the dog if it needs it? If people dont want to agree to my terms they certainly dont have to adopt from me. I tend to think the worse though so that could be why I want to make sure I have everything covered. You can ask people that adopt to do anything you like. You cannot enforce it. Dogs in any state can be identified by earbrand and microchip but not all owners will update contact details.

You went off on this tangent to start with To be blunt here, this thread is beginning to feel like a typical Dol "welcome" thread. The sort of welcome that involves people jumping in to pick at the the OP once they see others doing it (I'm looking at you, MUP) and the usual "guilty until proven innocent" attitude. This woman is looking to help and she's being treated like a pedophile applying for a job as a babysitter. Christ.. What? The op said she didnt know why people might jump to the conclusion that the dogs were aggressive so I answered. No idea why you are making a big deal about it or having a go at me. I don't really care if you dont think I'm welcoming enough. I didn't make any comments until it was clear that the op really has no idea what other Victorian groups do or why they do it. I stand by what I said and others are allowed to have the same concerns . Go and whinge to troy if you think people are being picked on.

We are talking about a policy of no small pets at all and no small pets next door and being required to notify if moving. Aside from being unenforceable it hints at possible problems if a dog cannot even be kept safely next door to another dog ever. There are many dangers for cats that stray, and there isn't a breed of dog that is guaranteed to accpt strange cats in their yard. All the responsible greyhound groups I know of will explain the risks to adopters and what can be done to minimise. I'm not sure why you are still going off on this tangent. It would be safer if no big dogs were ever adopted out if you want to keep going down that path.

I'm looking at how these tough restrictions will be perceived by the public. I made no comment about the actual nature of the dog. I'm of the opinion that sugar-coating the potential risks a dog poses is not good for anyone. I'd also be very wary of adopting a dog out to someone who didn't fully understand what the breed was capable of. Public perception is important but then, allowing the public to believe the breed is generally safe with cats is not going to do the breed any favours when people take risks that they wouldn't take if they been made fully aware of possible outcomes. I have never heard of that level of restriction on adopters before and understand why it might be interpreted as the dog being unsafe. You are going way off topic now accusing others of sugar coating the truth because we find it unusual that so many harsh restrictions would be put on adopters.

I'm looking at how these tough restrictions will be perceived by the public. I made no comment about the actual nature of the dog.

Oh wow somehow I missed this part. I have never placed an aggressive dog ever in my life I had them put down. This was a precaution we took above and beyond all the testing we did. I am not sure where you got that we were re homing aggro dogs. That level of restriction on new owners raises the question of how aggressive the dog would be to require such total separation.

So true. These two established groups have good systems and the more foster carers they have the more dogs they can place. The most efficient way for more greyhounds to be saved is to work with the groups who are doing it well and pool resources for promotion and administration.

I'm not against people starting groups if there is a need for a group. But you havent identified a need to start a separate group except to describe your personal problems with other groups. It's a bit unfair of you to do this and think that you can do better on your own when you seem to know very little about the groups you will be competing against. If you tell that story to the public it reflects badly on other rescues. There have been others that rushed in to do what you are doing, and any mistakes they make reflects badly on all greyhound rescue and raises welfare concerns. So that is why alarm bells ring when you talk in a way that shows you are very unfamiliar with how adoption works in Victoria and the reasonable expectations of adopters.

I see what you are saying, we will be writing up what we will take and wont take etc getting this all on paper will help us stick to the guidelines we set up. Yes they are owned by her The dogs the trainer does not feel would not make good pets she has put down at her vet. She has other dogs, has them handled by other people, has a child and spends a ton of time with the dogs but like I said once they get to me we will also do temp tests, cat testing, and child testing. I wouldnt require nor ask someone to do this but thats just me and my choice. People will get more dogs, and produce more puppies each year regardless if dogs are taken or put down. My concern is for the dogs once their racing career is over if I can save them from being put down I will be happy with that. You might be surprised who is interested in helping smaller groups. Yup we are working on gathering all the info this week. We will be talking with the right agencies this week and make sure we are within the laws at all times. I have no doubt that these groups are great and do wonderful work. I am not trying to compete with them or anything like that I prefer rescues work to help each other not compete with each other. I respect that opinion and other have mentioned it but I have explained my issues in an earlier post. If we all had this out look there would be none of these wonderful groups there are today we would all be fostering for the RSPCA but sometimes there is a need that a smaller group can fill. The various greyhound groups in Victoria were started to fill different specific needs. But you haven't really identified why there is a need for a new group to start. Except that you don't trust them? I have spoken to thousands of people about greyhounds at promotions, rehomed many hundreds of greyhounds and so I know what sort of questions people ask. Its not the size of the group that people generally care about, it's the dogs and where they all come from. If you set up a charity that assists one trainer in this way you are basically telling the public that this trainer is a charity case. Most trainers have to wait a long time to get their dogs into the programs, and the responsible trainers do this even though it costs them money and means they have less space for paying dogs. Why would you give one trainer special assistance and charity over all other trainers? How do you think this alliance will be perceived by the public? Starting a new group is competing with other groups, same as any other type of business. Before you rush in, why not spend some time volunteering with other groups to find out all you can about the big picture in Victoria and how greyhound racing and adoption is perceived? Then you will have a much better idea of whether another group is needed, where it is needed, and whether you will have the resources to provide the level of support that adopters and volunteers require.

You can call it adoption but in the eyes of the law you will be selling dogs as pets. Same as a dog breeder does. All Australian greyhound adoption groups are under immense pressure to take more dogs all the time. You need to be aware of the types of problems groups face so you can determine how you will manage that and what you do with dogs that are returned to you. Nothing wrong with a trainer being strict but you are the one taking on the risk and responsibility. Do you know if the dogs you will be taking are owned by the trainer? Do you know how to find out? How many dogs does the trainer turn over a year? What happens to the dogs the trainer says will not make a good pet? How does the trainer test the dogs? If you are helping a trainer place their dogs why shouldn't the trainer pay you for your work? I admire trainers who make sure their dogs are all rehomed but not if they expect everyone to help them for free while they keep bringing in more dogs. If you want to run as a charity and fundraise you can't be seen as working for a commercial greyhound trainer. That wouldnt go down well at all. If you want to pay your own costs then you can take dogs from whoever you like. If the trainer is paying you to take their dogs even better. I can't imagine that you will attract too many volunteers if you just work for the one trainer either. There are two big groups in Victoria , so don't write them off before you know what they do and how they do it. The people running the groups have been doing so for many years. There are laws in Victoria about animal businesses and you also need to familiarise yourself with all that might apply to you if you start an organisation. If the only dogs you rehome are the ones you foster yourself, you are probably better off just doing it privately and not starting a new organisation. Like others have mentioned, I would always advise carers to work with an established group so that the full support is there if needed.