Jaxx'sBuddy

I think that if bitches have a litter it may add a risk to desexing

The leather is quite thick but also I have a smallish dog and she just goes to sleep in the car. Maybe with bigger dogs it might not work as well

leather seats work for me

Boston's of course

Definitions of many: 1. Being one of a large indefinite number; numerous: many a child; many another day. 2. Amounting to or consisting of a large indefinite number: many friends. n. (used with a pl. verb) 1. A large indefinite number: A good many of the workers had the flu. 2. The majority of the people; the masses: "The many fail, the one succeeds" (Tennyson). pron. (used with a pl. verb) A large number of persons or things:

I owned 2 labs and they were not laid back at all. In fact they were very athletic and driven and a sight to behold when they dived into water to do their job A significant proportion of Labs (and other dogs) in this country are obese. Any obese dog is likely to be "laid back". If you can hardly move, its pretty much a given. ;) For sure. Labs that are too fat do nothing much at all. I was always told that my labs were skinny and they were not and they could run and jump and swim all without breaking a sweat. A Lab that is fit is a joy...and more work :D

I owned 2 labs and they were not laid back at all. In fact they were very athletic and driven and a sight to behold when they dived into water to do their job

Good post Jaxx's Buddy, this must be the first thread that you and I have ever agreed on something I am sure we almost agreed once before ;)

I didn't realize there was a direct correlation between the number of posts and anything at all really. This is where the personal denigration starts is it? All of you who stated you would have euthanised The Ark's cerebral palsy puppy have only served to prove his/her point. When you breed puppies, you are either going to keep them or sell them as show quality, rehome them as pets, or keep them as pets. In this case you are all agreeing it is not show quality, and you can't rehome it as a pet, and for whatever reason you choose not to keep it as a pet, so you would euthanise. So like The Ark said, breeders would have put this puppy to sleep. Get off your high horses. This is all about you getting offended by someone saying you would have done exactly what you said yourself you would have done. Maybe if The Ark had said some instead of most there would have been less offense taken, but I certainly haven't seen a majority of people here arguing they also would have kept that dog, seems the ones on the attack are the ones whose decision would have been to put it down. pot calling kettle black ....and all that other stuff.....you opened that can of worms by denigrating quite a few people who have contributed a lot to this forum.

Wow busterlove so much authority and so few posts

Some of us believe that there are worse fates than death for a dog. I am one of them. No one can say for certain what quality of life these dogs will have. How can you rehome them when you have no clear idea of what their needs will be? Comparisons between the situation for dogs and humans is irrelevant. The sooner that's grasped, the better. Totally agree PF. I would have euthanised the pups asap.

The issue for me is this: If a breeder kept those puppies and homed them they would be castigated and told they were a bad breeder BUT a rescue can do exactly the same thing and they are made out to be heroes. This is wrong on so many levels as it should not matter where these pups were whelped as IMO humans should leave their emotions out of this and start thinking about the quality of life(or lack thereof) that these dogs will have. These pups will need so much critical care throughout their lives and if the new owners cannot meet those needs the pups will need to be re-homed or be pts. We really do need to think about the ethics of this situation and tease out the ethical issues as there are many. To tease out these issues surely we must come from the position of what is best for the dog and look at this issue critically and honestly?

My point is that we don't know that these dogs are happy and we don't know they are not in pain. This means that it is necessary to be very careful not to think these dogs are ok based on how they look, ie looking happy. Ahh, ok. The converse of what I stated. Yes, true, they may not be happy and they may be happy. I guess we will never know. Yes, I agree, we don't know for sure.

coopex is a residual insecticide and if sprayed will get rid of ants, flies, mossies etc here is a link http://www.bayeranimal.com.au/default.aspx...0&ItemId=47

Thanks for the recommendation. What if you had a curious Kelpie puppy that likes to lick everything? It gets stuck on their noses as well when they sniff it. I tend to keep the dog away from it because after it has been down a few days even if the talc blows away the ants take a while (if ever) to use that path again. I used talc last summer and this summer I have had hardly any ants.

My point is that we don't know that these dogs are happy and we don't know they are not in pain. This means that it is necessary to be very careful not to think these dogs are ok based on how they look, ie looking happy.

I use talc as well. it works really well.

Anne, I had a little dog that was happy happy happy but one the day she stopped playing and seemed subdued but still happy. Took her to the vet and she had a serious problem with the bones in her neck and it had been there for some time. I knew that dog, she had lived with me for 15 years and I never knew how much pain she was in on that day or the months prior to that day. She was put on pain medication and the difference was significant. I felt awful because I did not pick up she was in pain. It taught me how stoic some dogs are and now I am much more careful when assessing whether a dog is pain free and to be honest, I do not believe these dogs are pain free. ETA The dog had seen the vet in those months as well and he hadn't picked up she had a problem either.

totally agree LizT...dogs deserve dignity and I too pts a dog who was losing control of her back legs. What quality of life will this dog have? Will it do all things doggy? If the answer is no then I believe it is human arrogance that is keeping it alive not human compassion. efs

We need to keep an eye on this but I suspect it won't go far because changes to any Act take time and resources. Many Councils bluff people into thinking they have more power than they actually have. Councils can make their own By-Laws BUT I think they must be based on existing legislation. Councils have a set of responsibilities that they must undertake and they cannot take on responsibilities outside their jurisdiction. They also cannot operate outside of the law.

Anne, how do you know these dogs are happy?

Great posts in this thread For me it is always what is best for the dog, no matter how hard it is for me to face the consequences.

I am not sure they can do this. Don't they have to have rules that fit under the State Dog and Cat management act? I do not think they can have tougher rules than the State laws.

I agree with you Anne. My position on things was that the dogs were alive and in need and that the time to pts them has passed but I was a little scared to say it. I think breeders and rescue have every right to decide if an animal is viable enough to live according to their own beliefs, values, ethics, whatever you want to call it. I've read on here about breeders doing everything possible to save a pup without knowing if it would be healthy long term. Same with rescue spending money on very ill animals with no guarantee of long term health or survival. Everyone does their best at the time. Having worked with physically and intellectually disabled young people I would readily take on an animal with special needs meeting the costs and doing my best in conjunction with my vet to know when human intervention wasn't enough. I can't be the only person willing to do that for an animal. I can totally understand the arguments presented against this idea when there are so many dogs in need, but my personal values mean that once something is alive it deserves a chance. For those of you who have watched the video I am surprised by the strength and mobility of two of the pups but the third one looks more dependant. That dog's future concerns me more than the other two at present. I also wondered what someone like the Bionic Vet would be able to do with their missing legs? To me I would want to know what is happening inside their skeletal and muscular structures and if their organs were ok before deciding on pts, but accept that others see things differently. With all due respect, I think the pain and retraining required to get a dog to use artificial limbs is animal experimentation taken to its worst end. I remember seeing the post about the cat and I was sickened at the lengths humans will go to in the name of science. I could not bear to see an animal struggle so much for what end? PTS is sometimes a better option than experimentation

Totally agree. These dogs can never be left alone because of their inability to defend themselves or their inability to move out of harms way. It is appalling that this has happened under the auspices of "rescue".