Jaxx'sBuddy

Research and more research, sad part is many just want a puppy and want it now!! But how do people research? Where can they go to know they're getting completely non bias information? So many breeders talk the talk and possibly even health test, but then you can find out from other people they are totally clueless and dodgy. I could ask certain people in our breed, who have been in the show scene for a while and get pointed in the direction of breeders who I class as being terrible. Then there's breeder conflict, so again you could ask a breeder about other breeders, but you're only going to get their opinion, which if they don't like them, could be quite negative. I think another issue is actually educating the public that there IS stuff to research. I think for the majority of prospective dog owners, when they want a puppy they just find a breeder. I don't think a lot of people out there realise there are amazing breeders and not so amazing breeders. So how do we educate the public that they need to research? How do we get to them at that crucial point where they decide they want a puppy? As I said earlier you ask 5-10 people if they all tell a similar story there is some truth to it and requires further investigation. Firstly the profile of the Pure bred dogs needs to be addressed - The public need to be made aware we exist. ANKC/Breed clubs need to advertise where puppies are being sold - Petlink/Trading Post etc If you raise the profile you can then educate them, you can't educate those who can't find you. as i said before, i have almost been duped by dodgy breeders and i consider myself a very educated puppy buyer. dodgy breeders lie, they are slick at talking to the public and in one case the only reason i twigged was because they didn't answer a question about a breed health condition properly, in other words they didn't know their breed could suffer from a known genetic condition. how on earth do normal puppy buyers get to suss this stuff out easily?

Damn. I am breaking my ignore rule again (thanks for all the PM's everyone) There are some of PETA'S agenda that I 100% disagree with. I certainly don't subscribe to PETA's extreme view that all pets are slaves, and should be set free. So it's ok to agree with some of an organisations philosophies and not others, but still support them overall? sure it is....... just that annie cant see that ethical breeders can be members of the ankc but disagree with the selling to pet shops talk about double standards

Of course there are drug rings, paedophile rings, puppy farmers etc. Greedy people will do what they can to get rich. But I can assure you people who peddle drugs and cook them often end up in the clink, and not a place I ever want to be. well some activist you will be :D I never said I was an activist that would do the things in that link I posted. I said without them, many PF's would never have been exposed. It's not that complicated. Really! but it is easy to be an armchair activist sprouting rubbish to this forum but not having the balls to do what your heroes do. its cowardice by any other name

Many have looked into this with no luck, There has been a few threads on DOL in regards to this. thanks sway i will have a look at them because i am curious about this

Of course there are drug rings, paedophile rings, puppy farmers etc. Greedy people will do what they can to get rich. But I can assure you people who peddle drugs and cook them often end up in the clink, and not a place I ever want to be. well some activist you will be :D

That is exactly what has been happening for many, many years. Some people are passionate REAL dog lovers and will risk trespass charges and criminal record to protect and bring awareness of puppy farms http://www.prisonersforprofit.org.au/?p=385 this is madness you have got to be joking. militants of any persuasion are totally against my ethics and i deplore those tactics and anyone who undertakes them. Who are the people who have exposed the Puppy Farmers JB????? Is it people sitting around in suits being polite asking polite questions and never ruffling any feathers???. i have news for you, you have no idea what it is to be political and to make change. you would do much better to understand you audience and try to figure out what we may have done outside of this dog forum before you come in her as an expert. you are embarrassing yourself

you really know nothing about the dog world do you? If I left the ANKC my dogs would become unregistered and joining the MDBA would get me no where as they are not recognised worldwide. My bitches pedigree is tracable back something like 32 generations, it would be gone; poof; if I left the ANKC. No one would sell me semen to import, I would be unable to continue to breed registered pedigree dogs, if I wanted to keep breeding I would become a BYB. But there wouldn't be any point to that cause my breed aren't exactly popular. Why would you leave the ANKC ? annie suggested that breeders should do this because of the selling to pet shops went against her ideals

That is exactly what has been happening for many, many years. Some people are passionate REAL dog lovers and will risk trespass charges and criminal record to protect and bring awareness of puppy farms http://www.prisonersforprofit.org.au/?p=385 this is madness you have got to be joking. militants of any persuasion are totally against my ethics and i deplore those tactics and anyone who undertakes them.

How do they have a greater burden? There is no difference between an ethical ANKC breeder and an MDBA breeder. Only that the MDBA breeder member has coughed up more money to be a member of an extra organisation. if we use selling to pet shops, ankc breeders can sell to PIAA pet shops and mdba members can't so therefore a greater burden is placed on mdba members as they are not allowed to sell to pet shops which reduces a point of sale for them And you think an ethical ANKC breeder would? Selling to a pet shop wouldn't even enter the equation for the majority of ethical ANKC breeders. no of course not. this is not about breeders but the organisations. the ankc organisation says it is ok for its members to sell to PIAA pet shops. i know ethical ankc breeders would never do this and i assume they are not happy this is part of their code of ethics. the reality is though that the ankc has no problems if its members does sell to pet shops and this is what i am talking about Because the ANKC is an organisation, they can not legally restrict freedom of trade. It's not about allowing people to do it, they have to allow them to sell them to the 14 accredited pet shops should breeders wish to. Not something I agree with. i know sway you and other breeders don't like it one bit and for some of the puppy buying public it;s a confusion that could be done without. i wonder how the ankc could restrict trade to only PIAA pet shops and still be within the law?

How do they have a greater burden? There is no difference between an ethical ANKC breeder and an MDBA breeder. Only that the MDBA breeder member has coughed up more money to be a member of an extra organisation. if we use selling to pet shops, ankc breeders can sell to PIAA pet shops and mdba members can't so therefore a greater burden is placed on mdba members as they are not allowed to sell to pet shops which reduces a point of sale for them just because something is allowed does not mean people take advantage of it, I'd wager most ANKC breeders don't sell to PIAA petshops due to their own personal ethics, they too then have have one less point of sale. Well if i was part of a reputable org/assn SAY ANKC where some members sold to pet shops I would LEAVE - that simple! And I would join an org/assn that did not do it. So there could be NO confusion. That simple. oh for goodness sake. get a grip. after all of us trying to help you still don't get it so what is you agenda?

How do they have a greater burden? There is no difference between an ethical ANKC breeder and an MDBA breeder. Only that the MDBA breeder member has coughed up more money to be a member of an extra organisation. if we use selling to pet shops, ankc breeders can sell to PIAA pet shops and mdba members can't so therefore a greater burden is placed on mdba members as they are not allowed to sell to pet shops which reduces a point of sale for them And you think an ethical ANKC breeder would? Selling to a pet shop wouldn't even enter the equation for the majority of ethical ANKC breeders. no of course not. this is not about breeders but the organisations. the ankc organisation says it is ok for its members to sell to PIAA pet shops. i know ethical ankc breeders would never do this and i assume they are not happy this is part of their code of ethics. the reality is though that the ankc has no problems if its members does sell to pet shops and this is what i am talking about

How do they have a greater burden? There is no difference between an ethical ANKC breeder and an MDBA breeder. Only that the MDBA breeder member has coughed up more money to be a member of an extra organisation. if we use selling to pet shops, ankc breeders can sell to PIAA pet shops and mdba members can't so therefore a greater burden is placed on mdba members as they are not allowed to sell to pet shops which reduces a point of sale for them

That is interesting as I though Pet Shops were not allowed to sell purebred registered puppies. That is what I have been told by Pets Paradise and other shops annie you really need to read the posts. PIAA pet shops can sell ankc registered puppies we can't keep repeating the same information you really need to try to understand what we are saying

showdog i understood that mdba members had a greater burden on them rather than being above the law

If the org that say no to pet shop selling ever finds out about it, then there might be consequences. Whose going to tell them? Not the person being unethical, that's for sure. i agree with you rebanne but for me it's about the ethos of the organisation and what the organisation sees as acceptable rather than whether the members are 100% compliant

The MDBA don't allow their members to sell to pet shops. Doesn't mean it doesn't happen. The world is not that simple. As I sit here typing this I could have a small fluffy, mated to the small fluffy down the road, whelping in the spare bedroom, cause I knew I would be broke after Christmas. A quick sale to the petshop pays the credit card bill I ran up buying Chrissie presents. Who's to know? Really? but the mdba states that it does not want its members to sell to pet shops which is the point. and my point is you wouldn't know, you are relying on that person to be truthful, to uphold the COE of the organisation they are a member of. Whatever organisation it is. indeed but one organisation tells its members that they can sell to PIAA pet shops and the other doesn't so the one who won;t allow puppy sales to pet shops will have consequences for members who do so, the other obviously wont as it is allowable. i prefer a blanket no pet shop sales to sales to certain pet shops being allowable

No we wont be bagging breeders at all. The story focuses on one family's bad luck with buying a sick puppy from a pet store and I really need another to tell to make the point. We have also spoken to a vet at the local shelter who recommends saving a dog's life instead. Why exactly are you against pet stores? And I take it you are a breeder yourself? Where and of what? surely before undertaking this story you would have researched the reasons why buying from a pet shop is not a good idea. if you haven't done this then i fear the story will be another beat up with little facts

The MDBA don't allow their members to sell to pet shops. Doesn't mean it doesn't happen. The world is not that simple. As I sit here typing this I could have a small fluffy, mated to the small fluffy down the road, whelping in the spare bedroom, cause I knew I would be broke after Christmas. A quick sale to the petshop pays the credit card bill I ran up buying Chrissie presents. Who's to know? Really? but the mdba states that it does not want its members to sell to pet shops which is the point.

ha ha ha I have. And asked who the breeders are??? and I get told that "breeders discretion" stops them from telling me who they are. Also they tell me the parents of the pups are purebreds with papers..... but like i say, more confusion and deception..... and the parents might be but that doesn't mean ankc breeders are supplying the pet shop. i could have a dog and a bitch on main or limited register and i could breed them and sell them to a pet shop and what they have said is true...doesn't make me an ankc breeder does it? All I am saying is that from a consumers point of view it is very confusing to get any sort of information from the pet shops and the term Registered Breeder is bandied around a lot agreed that's why consumers need to ask lots of questions because at the moment it's the only way to sort the wheat out from the chaff

ha ha ha I have. And asked who the breeders are??? and I get told that "breeders discretion" stops them from telling me who they are. Also they tell me the parents of the pups are purebreds with papers..... but like i say, more confusion and deception..... and the parents might be but that doesn't mean ankc breeders are supplying the pet shop. i could have a dog and a bitch on main or limited register and i could breed them and sell them to a pet shop and what they have said is true...doesn't make me an ankc breeder does it?

annie pets paradise as far as i know is not a PIAA member so i doubt it is ankc breeders who supply them with puppies. also, any person who allows a bitch and a dog to mate and the bitch to whelp could be called a breeder. maybe you need to ask them more questions like which organisation the breeder belongs to?

not sure unless it is a voluntary restriction, ie agreement by breeders not to engage in that activity and ramifications by the organisation if they breach their voluntary agreement? Can someone tell me if this is right ANKC - sells to pet shop MDBA - does not sell to pet shops If that is the case, I will go with MDBA So you would rather support the MDBA who will allow it's members to breed cross breed dogs?? sway i am not sure this is true and also ankc breeders can cross breed dogs and sell them to PIAA pet shops and this is ok with the ankc as long as ankc registered dogs are not used to cross breed. (i found all this out when i was researching a puppy purchase, it took me months to get all the info)

Ain't that the truth i am a full time groomer & see these animals weekly where there loving owners are unable to spend 10 mins a week to brush them . Bad owners come in all forms i can only imagine showdog. people need to realise there is no black and white, if there was our lives would be so much simpler

Thanks for that clarification. So therefore, like it or not, ANKC is supporting puppy farmers - or at best allowing them to be part of their group. I would not call a group that supports sale of pups to pet shops reputable. Annie - you have claimed elsewhere to have a legal background/ training - surely then you are familiar with the Trade Practices Act and the concepts of exclusive dealing and anti-competitive behaviour. I am curious though - what involvement do you have with the dog world? Are you a dog owner? Very good questions. I will send you a PM actually i am curious about these questions as well, maybe you could let us all know the answers

Hmmm. Not sure if I would call puppy farmers hobby breeders. But I know some cat breeders who have over 30 female cats and call it a "hobby" as well. Hmmmm. More and more confusing. A very tangled web that has been woven. number mean nothing. years ago i knew breeders who had many dogs and all were looked after in a terrific manner.....quantity does not mean a lack of quality equally there are pet owners who have 1 dog who has a dreadful life as it hasn't ever seen the outside of its back yard