Wobbly

Thanks Persephone :D I'm delighted with today's walk - she trotted happily all the way to the bush loop in front of me. No hesitancy at all, we had a lovely walk. :D :D :D I don't even think I need to keep this diary now, somewhere along the line she's developed into a fairly sensible dog, cautious if she has reason (and that injury should certainly give pause for thought) but not concerned once it's proven safe. I don't anticipate any issues here, I'm just gonna follow all the advice I've been given here and it looks like it'll be fine. If I'd been told when I first got her as a crazy adolescent that she'd turn into a sensible dog given some time to settle and learn appropriate responses, I'd have laughed, or more likely I'd have buried my head in my hands in despair :laugh: But she has, I think developed a reasonable amount of doggy common sense. Now if I could just convince her cats aren't chasey toys, she'd be perfect, well at least she always sits for her chasey toys, which is the next best thing I guess. :laugh:

What a great idea, maybe she could walk them somewhere really pretty, a bushwalk or a walk on the beach, if she has a good friend with a dog maybe they could go together?

What a great idea, i hope it works out well for them.

Well I thought I'd just keep a little record of how it's going here, coz I am terrible at dates and the forums date each post, so if I need to know what happened when in the future, it'll be here for reference. "D Went to the Bush Track Loop today. She was hesitant about getting there, looking back over her shoulder, but with a bit of vocal encouragement she was willing. Once on the Bush Loop, she realised she wouldn't have to go the quarry, so she lost her hesitancy and was her usual happy grinning, prancing self. A little bit of off lead running, mostly on lead walking though, certainly no frisbee. So far so good, same again tommorrow.

You're welcome BC Crazy. I'm not sure it would be a good enough deterrent for a really aggressive dog rushing you, I wouldn't rely on it in that case. But for dogs that are ill mannered it works wonders. Also it's pretty funny, so you'll likely be laughing as the other dogs runs away as fast as it's legs can carry it, and for your fear aggressive dogs to see you laughing as another dog bolts away is probably a really good message to be sending to your own dog.

One thing that I have found useful against errant off leash dogs rushing you is to carry a water pistol and squirt the miscreants. Serial offenders will very quickly learn to recognise the flash of bright plastic water pistol and beat a hasty retreat when they see you coming. :D

I'm a long way from Qld so I don't know any behaviorists there but I did happen to notice this event in Cairns in my web travels: The Nth Qlders helping to host it are Dogzcairns.org, I can't actually recommend them because I've had nothing to with them, but Grisha Stewart is very good (I will definitely go to her Sydney talk), so perhaps the people organising her seminar in Nth Qld are worth investigating further to see if they can provide what you need? 3rd & 4th November 2012 CAIRNS Behaviour Adjustment Training (BAT) with Grisha Stewart MA CPDT – KA For Aggression, Frustration & Fear Grisha Stewart MA CPDT – KA When : 3rd & 4th November 2012 Where : Smithfield High School, Cairns http://www.dogtrainingseminarcairns.com/ for more information contact [email protected] Hosted by DogzCairns Inc

I'm glad your boy got over it Bullmastiff mum. It's great to hear all these stories of dogs getting over their fear of places without too much of a fuss, it makes me feel very positive about this. "D When I first took Jarrah back there, she was kind of OK with it, I mean she didn't like it, but she came with me without any sort of struggle, she clearly wasn't enjoying herself though, so I just took her home. But when my husband said the next day she flat out refused to go I started to get a bit worried. I have read that these neurotic behaviours either get better or worse, but will never stay static. And from what he said about that day it was getting worse. So I figured it best to work out a strategy and have that checked and vetted by people with experience and knowledge. Yay Erny! My husband is dying to have her run with him, he'd just started training for a half marathon when she got hurt, talk about bad timing. For the moment we are just walking around our suburb, my husband knows all the distances around here and tells me our route today was 5kms, no sign of the injury flaring up again so it's looking good for the behavioural rehab work at the quarry in a few weeks. It's funny, I never really walked around our suburb much in the past. When I first got her she was SUCH a brat in public, I was continually mortified by her behaviour, ground swallow me now! please!? every single time. She'd see a cat and just about tear my arm off trying to chase it kind of stuff. So I stopped walking her around the neighbourhood and just stuck to our bush walks. I took her to an obedience class once and she was so terrible - that was when I first got her and she was very mouthy (in a play way, but very pushy), I was covered in bruises and blood from her nipping that first week, she was monstrous with all the other dogs, trying to leap all over them and dominate them that I was so embarrassed I never went back. She really was terrible when i got her and I was completely unprepared to deal with her. But she has a fundamentally sound temperament so we muddled through without any serious problems (just really embarrassing ones ). I guess I kind of got myself an aversion to walking in our neighbourhood with her from those bad old days (even though she's been good in other neighbourhoods for years now), we had our quarry walking routine and it's such a good spot it never occurred to me to really deviate from it. Well, it seems it's true that from bad things good things do come - the injury has been terrible, but it made me discover that walking round our pretty leafy suburb and stopping to chat to other local dog owners is in fact a very pleasant outing.

Here's 2 pics of her in the quarry, 1 with her playing frisbee tug of war with my husband (we use a canvas frisbee so she can play tug with it, I get them sent from the US, 10 at a time, they're supposed to be "combat tested" & last reasonably well when used as a special treat a couple of times a week), and 1 pic of her just having a hoon in the sand. It's a great place, 3 dams and lots of sand to run in, definitely got to get her back to loving the place.

hi Erny, Good ideas. Yes, you're exactly right, now that you've said it, I can see that's a far better approach. :D So I will be less structured about it than the plan above, and instead play with the frisbee between her comfort zone (initially the loop) and anxiety zone, and increasingly throw the frisbee further & further into the scary zones, whilst ensuring there's no chance anxiety might override her play drive. Good idea about playing there before we try to walk past too ofc, I don't know why these obvious things escape me, but they do, so I'm glad I asked for help. This approach is actually a lot better for me too, I get a bit bored with highly structured stuff, this more organic approach is far preferable, it'll be way more fun to just play in the general vicinity without being concerned about the exact spot we're in each day. It makes it play rather than work. I've never really pushed the limits of her drive before like this, it'll be interesting to see, with this new approach I'm anticipating anything from about an hour to a few weeks till success. XD A similar approach worked for me before, she used to have a bit of an aversion to brooms - something had happened to her before I got her and she didn't like them at all, so I used to play fetch with her in the kitchen and throw her ball progressively closer to where the broom was leaning. She'd hesitate and look at me like "can you rescue my ball from the evil broom pls?" then when she realised she was on her own with it, she'd run in and grab the ball, always keeping a very suspicious eye on the broom and get out of there as fast as she could. It wasn't a bad phobia, I'm quite sure she'd never been mistreated prior to me getting her, I think it was probably just a broom falling on her when she was very young or something. At that time I had only just got her - the ball was her toy rather than mine - I was pretty clueless then, hadn't even heard the term drive, it was really just a lucky experiment - we were just learning eachother's boundaries, but the happy upshot is that 4 or so years on she doesn't even notice brooms at all any more. So this is a similar approach, which is great, it's worked before so should work again. Her drive for the frisbee is magnitudes of order stronger than her adolescent ball drive ever was, but so too I think her aversion to the quarry is magnitudes of order stronger than her broom fear ever was, she really did hurt herself quite badly there that day. As you say, it'll be a while before I can let her run and play, especially with the way she plays with the frisbee - she's crazy about it. I'm really going to have to work her strength fitness back up to previous levels before we start. We're up to about 5km walks now, I still haven't let her run or even be off lead yet outside the house. I will keep working on restoring her fitnes & strength a few weeks, perhaps even a month before we can start. Thankyou so much Erny for your input, I appreciate it more than I can say. Having this space to run and play off leash in is a huge quality of life issue for Jarrah, and me too. She's a very active dog who LOVES to hoon around, and this the only place near to us that's suitable for her. Thankyou Thankyou Thankyou and a big lick from Jarrah. "D

I should mention that all of this is not set in stone timewise, it depends on how she goes, my aim is as you've suggested Erny, to push her but without ever allowing anxiety to overrule her drive. She should be OK here, her frisbee drive especially is very strong, I really suspect there is no anxiety that could over rule her frisbee excitement. The frisbee has always been very much MINE, not hers and I worked quite hard to make it the best thing in the world to her for emergency recall purposes after going to one of K9 Force's Drive training workshops and watching some Ivan Balabanov dvds I got. I reckon both Steve and Balabanov would be pretty impressed with the frisbee drive she has now.

Thanks Rosie and Erny, I really appreciate your advice. Especially since its advice that will be easy for us to follow. We are good with the easy stuff - ToT for example is an automatic given in our house, so simple & effective, but I'm terrible with the more difficult stuff, I wanted to try obedience trials at one point, but had trouble wrapping my brain around the courses, so I never managed it. I'm happy to hear Rosie is fine on that stretch of road now, your success makes me think we will get over this without fuss so long as I approach it right. I will do exactly as you have both suggested. So this is my plan, it's simple enough I am confident with it: We'll avoid the area for a little while to begin with. we are enjoying our walks around the suburb at the moment (we haven't done this much, so it's interesting for both of us to explore) so we can leave it a few weeks before tackling the issue. This also fits in with the need to make sure she's 100% better before we embark on our rehab program too. Our spot is an old quarry with an approx 1km bush track leading to it. I drew a picture of the geography so I can detail my plan clearly. Its very much not to scale, but will serve. Gate: She is fine going through the gate to the track. Bush Loop (Blue): 1 week here. About 200m down from the gate there is a bush track loop. She is completely happy to go down that track, it's where my husband took her when she wouldnt go all the way to the quarry with him. So I think we will start walking that loop to begin with. Perhaps a week of walking here? On leash or off leash? I think she feels more secure on leash, so perhaps on leash is better, at least to start with? Half Way mark (Green): 2 weeks here. Anxiety likely starts here, but is very mild. As you say Ernie, the body language is not overt at this point, but trepidation has begun, she didn't stop, but slowed to look back over her shoulder when I took her, my husband reported the same. Happily enough, just at this spot there is a reasonable sized grassy area, and I will do as you suggested Ernie, use drive and have a little game of frisbee here with her. I think perhaps a week of frisbee here, she'll think all her Christmases have come at once, throwing a frisbee is the penultimate reward for her, tug'o'war with the frisbee is the absolute ultimate reward. We will do both fetch and tug for sits and downs and a few other more silly tricks she knows (high 5s and the like). The next week I will put her through her tricks with food rewards here. At the end of this she's gonna love this spot. It'll be associated with tricks and treats. Three Quarter mark (Orange): 2 weeks here. This is where anxiety is plain. She refused to go past this point with my husband, I got her all the way to the quarry, but she wasn't happy about it. Again, fortunately geography is with me here, there is a nice flat area for some frisbee and tricks, and even a little creek to splash about in (she loves that). I will repeat the same procedure as for the half way mark, 1 week of frisbee for tricks followed by 1 week of food reinforcement for tricks here. The Quarry, Our Goal (Red): 1 week walking past entrance, 2 weeks drive training at entrance It is difficult to plan this far ahead, since I don't know where she will be at this point, the plan is already over a month long. I am thinking I will probably walk her past the quarry for a little while before we venture in. The track leads to a National Park about 1 km from the quarry entrance. I will likely walk her to the National Park boundary, and then back, passing the quarry entrance but not entering. A week of this. Then perhaps 2 Weeks of frisbee and food for tricks at the quarry entrance before we venture in. Once we actually get all the way in, more frisbee! Fetch in the water and tug o war too - her very favourites. Does this sound like a good plan? It will probably take longer than I have detailed here, because some days I will just want a walk instead of working with her, so we will walk elsewhere for that. I'm thinking I will alternate with working on this every 2nd day or so, and walks around the suburb on the other days? Any advice, suggestions or tweaks to this?

Well the thread about her injury is here (definitely not required reading, just there for interest, it's a soft tissue injury): http://www.dolforums.com.au/topic/239317-sluggish-stiffish-gait-please-help/ It was a sprain I believe she got swimming after ducks when she was insufficiently warmed up. It was a very painful injury for her, so now when we get to the walk spot, she just doesn't want to go in at all. She flat out refuses to go with my husband, just plonks herself on the ground and won't move. She will go with me, but she's not at all happy about it, she kept stopping and giving me "Let's go home now" looks. I want her to love it again, is that possible? It's such a great spot to walk, and crucially it's my spot where there is never anyone else. She is not immediately reactive to other dogs, but we had incidents of her biting other dogs when I first got her (adolescent from pound) and although nothings happened for years and she's fine with known dogs in controlled, calm environments I wouldn't ever trust her off leash with unknown dogs. So this spot is pretty important to us for her off leash runs. She is strictly on leash for another week or so until I'm positive she's all healed up, and I'm also not going to take her there until I'm sure she's 100% on top of the world again. She LOVES her frisbee, more than anything else in the world - it's the best most exciting thing ever. She goes mental for it. I could use this in my favour for sure. She's also quite food driven, not as much as she is frisbee driven but she's still very, very keen on treats, so I could use this too. She has some tricks, she enjoys doing them but I don't think enough to get her over this, at least not initially. I am really not the best trainer out there, so I would love to hear suggestions and advice as I want to fix this, and I really don't want to inadvertantly do the wrong thing and make the aversion worse. Look forward to hearing from people and appreciate any help

O Esky. I am so sorry for your loss. Sometimes life can be so hard, I really feel for you. Big, big hugs for you. And if my dog could see your hurt, she would lick your face thoroughly, so big face licks from Jarrah (be sure to close your mouth, she'll try to slip the tongue in!)

Hey! Gapvic I already Private Messaged you in this regard, but now I've found this topic, I'm hoping JRT RESCUE and other rescues/fosters may know of a suitable dog. There is a lady who has posted in General Discussion who is looking for a dog for her autistic son. The boy has decided he wants a JRT. I thought a rescue would be the best bet for this lady since a careful match between dog and owners will be very important. It looks like she will really need the advice of an experienced dog handler to get a suitable dog if the boy is adamant about a wanting a JRT. Perhaps you know of a calmer JRT (is such a thing possible?) or a mixed breed JRT who possesses a suitable temperament? Anyway, hopefully you guys can help her, the thread is here: http://www.dolforums.com.au/topic/239960-which-breed/ OK off to hassle JRT RESCUE by PM in case she doesn't see this. XD

That's a good idea too, explain your situation and perhaps they may know of an appropriate dog for you. If your son has his heart set on a JRT, I think approaching JRT rescue would be better than contacting a breeder. The rescue may be able to find you a suitable dog who is a JRT mix, and in all honesty, for an autistic child a pure bred JRT is probably not an ideal breed. While the JRTs are great for kids with their inexhaustible energy and lovely temperament, they might be a little too full on for an autistic child. A JRT rescue will likely be able to match you with a mixed breed JRT which may be a little calmer than the average pure bred, but still enable your son to feel as though he got the dog HE wanted. There is lady who works in JRT rescue here on DOL, she may know of a suitable dog for you. I will try to find her for you and direct her to this thread.

For those who have difficulty understanding Jefferson, maybe try Martin Luther King Jr.

Couldn't be simpler IMO.

Yes! You should definitely come up with Bruno "D Does he swim? We have the best doggy swimming spots here, both dams and ocean. Jarrah's actually OK with other dogs these days, which I'm delighted about, not sure when and how it happened, I've just been careful about socialisation, and she's slowly come good. I'll still never fully trust her to rough & tumble play with other dogs, I definitely keep her leashed when other dogs are running around & playing, but in terms of hanging out in a low excitement scenario, she's fine. Italy has been postponed due to some medical stuffs (I'm all good though don't worry!) & I have enough trouble deciphering medical jargon in English, so the thought of doing it in Italian is.... well it'd be comical for the Italians at least I guess. XD Still definitely moving there at some point, but it'll be later than we'd hoped for. In the interim we did some travelling round Australia for 7 months - some pics in the APBT & Amstaff thread.

Ideally you want a dog who has been assessed as suitable for your needs by an experienced dog handler. Breed is a good general indication of temperament, but individuals can vary. Calling up a reputable rescue and telling them your needs and asking them to match a suitable dog to you would probably yield good results. They will let you have the dog for a trial period so you can be absolutely sure it's the right dog for you and your son. If you mentioned what area you are in perhaps someone could give specific advice on where to look or who to contact? A local dog training group might also be able to offer some practical help in finding a good match.

Hey Ruth! Your new dog looks beautiful. Another stunning Am Staff rescue added to the pack. "D Jhonboy, It's great to see you're considering a rescue, but understandable that the kids want a puppy. Pups do come up in rescue though, so it's worthwhile keeping an eye out. In terms of BSL - it's an issue in some areas and a non-issue in others, as I mentioned previously I don't know the situation in Brisbane. Since you're researching the subject and asking questions, you'll definitely get an awesome pet. For a pedigree dog the breeders already mentioned here - Mischief Maker, Amseraph and Iron Klad are all excellent, they have posted here alot and we have seen numerous pics of litters and major show wins, as well as pics from people who own dogs they've bred. So tonnes of people here can vouch for their reliability as breeders of the best quality Am Staffs. If you go through the Amstaff thread you can see many of those pics and discussions for yourself, response times there can be slow though - I guess the Am Staff owners are busy so it's a quality rather than quantity kind of thread. XD Anyway, good luck with your search, I hope a suitable pup turns up soon, and we'd love to see pictures when you do get your pup. :D

Haha yeah she's the Staffy looking dog in my sig! Actually more AM Staff than staffy, apparently the odd yogi contortions, I believe can be something of a breed idiosyncrisy. XD Definitely nothing to do with this injury though, which I think she sustained during madcap exercise. Wow, I do love DoL I would never have thought of seeing a greyhound vet, but of course it makes sense that they'd be the unparalleled experts in soft tissue injury in dogs. For the moment she seems OK, she had her little half hour walk today and there's no sign of stiffness or limping. Fingers crossed all stays well. In the event that her symptoms reemerge, I would really appreciate the recommendation of a good greyhound vet Stan'sMum (Jarrah sends ankle licks, knee licks and ofc back licks) or your chiro sounds great too DancinBCs. I am in the Central Coast, but if this flares up again I'm willing to drive to Sydney for the best advice and treatment. If you guys would be so good as to let me know the contact details of those vets (either in the thread or via Private Message) I would be very grateful. Hopefully things will stay good & I won't need to use them, but if not, having the numbers to ring order to make appointment ASAP would be wonderful. Thanks guys

Well, an update, this seems to be dragging on forever. I kept her quiet & without walks for five days, as per veterinary advice. On the 6th day, she seemed fine, full of beans & no evidence of pain or stiffness, so I took her for a short walk, on leash so no running, no excitement. She seemed fine after it, all good. On the seventh day my husband took her for a walk, he ran with her :/ Not good. Once the adrenaline gets going she ignores pain, which she obviously did here. Next day she was back to square 1 and so we went back to the vets for painkillers and more checks. This time I kept her quiet & with no walks for 7 days, as per veterinary advice. On the 8th day I took her for a small walk, which she enjoyed immensely and sniffed everything, no evidence of pain or stiffness, so all good. Since then I have been doing the same, small half hour walks, on leash so I can ensure no excitement or running. I'm going to keep this up for at least another 2 weeks and slowly increase the amount of time we walk for (providing her gait stays normal). I want to build her up to running again slowly, the one thing I don't want is this developing into any kind of recurrent sports injury, I had one of those as a kid from an ankle sprain (I bet parents wish they could leash children for this sort of thing) and it's no fun, so I want to spare her the pain. So we're just walking and sniffing everything for the next little while, and she gets a marrow bone half every day to keep her mind off the limited exercise. We are both getting fat from no long walks. XD

"Support for Elderly and Disabled Dog Owners" That can be shortened to SEADDO. IMO Get the important information about what your group is all about into your name. If you're catering to the elderly and disabled you want to make it as clear as possible who you are and what you do. Remember many members of your target demographic may be less able to use social media, the internet etc to search for more detailed information, so a descriptive name will be very helpful to them. Its a great idea, keep us posted on your progress.

Don't forget there's plenty of Amstaffs in need at pounds as well. There are downsides to getting a dog from the pound, you will never have papers for the dog, which can present a problem for Am Staffs in some areas. Many councils however, won't interfere provided a dog never comes to their attention for any reason. I am not sure what the situation is in Brisbane. Blacktown pound in Sydney is where I got my dog, there are always so many Am Staffs in there. Its a tragedy that so many good looking, healthy dogs with great temperaments are put to sleep. Here is a link to the current list at Blacktown pound, lots of Am Staffs, as usual. http://www.dolforums.com.au/topic/239871-blacktown-pound-week-beginning-23072012/ In checking rescues, be aware that rescuers and pounds usually don't have access to pedigrees so American Staffordshires may be mislabelled as Staffy crosses or other similar variations, and unrelated cross breeds may be incorrectly labelled Amstaff. Closer to you, I just did a very quick search of QLD animal rescue. I didn't go through them all, there's far too many, but here is a small selection you might be interested in: http://www.petrescue.com.au/view/148652 http://www.petrescue.com.au/view/168536 http://www.petrescue.com.au/_feed/view/?animal=131939 http://www.petrescue.com.au/view/162626 http://www.petrescue.com.au/view/153572 http://www.petrescue.com.au/view/164698 http://www.petrescue.com.au/view/168433 http://www.petrescue.com.au/view/168148 http://www.petrescue.com.au/view/158164 http://www.petrescue.com.au/view/165145