TessiesTracey

Let's hope so. I believe that Veronica Brown (Public Relations Officer for GB & NI Breed Council) has frequented the BBO forum, so hopefully she'll pick up on it, or if not I'll pass it onto her.

And again, it is genetically IMPOSSIBLE for a blue Stafford to have a black nose, no matter what The Kennel Club has to say about it. A dark slate nose can "appear" black but it doesn't MAKE it black! But gee, The Kennel Club has spoken so that automatically means that many hundreds of Stafford breeders and some highly esteemed International Geneticists must be wrong! And editing to add: I also note that nowhere in this missive does the BREED appear so in all fairness, perhaps you could post your actual letter/email TO the Kennel Club so that we can actually see that you were enquiring about the Stafford in particular. I should also remind you that whilst the reply you received is interesting....we are in AUSTRALIA and therefore whilst the Stafford did originate in the UK, the Kennel Club is not the organisation with whom we have affiliation. Hi Ellz. Here's my email (sent via the enquiry page on the UK Kennel Clubs website) in full. (I've only edited the part which shows my email address)..... Dear Ms Randall Thank you for your enquiry. The Kennel Club Breed Standard describes the ideal specimen of a breed. Whilst some dogs may not comply with all points as described, the judge must take an overview and decide which of the dogs being exhibited most closely meets the standard. The issue of colour is just one of several points described in the standard. However, we would disagree with your view that a blue dog cannot have a black nose as required by the standard. There are blue dogs exhibited in the UK which have black noses. We hope that this clarification will be of assistance. Yours sincerely Caroline Hallett -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 09 November 2010 05:57 To: CCS Admin Subject: Message from http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk The sender of this email has sent you the following information: Name:tracey randall Email: Location: Australia Telephone: Message: Dear Sir/Madam I'm a long standing Staffordshire Bull Terrier owner & have just discovered your information regarding the registration of merle litters within our breed.Great news!However a question regards blue SBT's please.The colour blue (permitted in the standard)as far as I'm aware,is a dilute gene of the colour black.Therefore a blue coloured Stafford cannot genetically have a black nose (as requested in the breed standard).How does that work?What is the KC's standing on this particular issue? Would appreciate your input. Regards Receive information by POST: Receive information by EMAIL: =================== http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk

Have posted it Ellz, on the bottom of the blue/CDA thread in Stafford Talk

Putting my reply here too from the UK KC.... Thank you for your enquiry. The Kennel Club Breed Standard describes the ideal specimen of a breed. Whilst some dogs may not comply with all points as described, the judge must take an overview and decide which of the dogs being exhibited most closely meets the standard. The issue of colour is just one of several points described in the standard. However, we would disagree with your view that a blue dog cannot have a black nose as required by the standard. There are blue dogs exhibited in the UK which have black noses. We hope that this clarification will be of assistance. Yours sincerely Caroline Hallett

Well.. I asked.... and finally got a reply from the UK KC. Despite how Caroline has worded her reply to me, please be assured, I ASKED if it was possible for a blue Stafford to have a black nose genetically, as I understood that genetically it was not possible. I did NOT STATE it was impossible, as Carolines reply might imply. Thank you for your enquiry. The Kennel Club Breed Standard describes the ideal specimen of a breed. Whilst some dogs may not comply with all points as described, the judge must take an overview and decide which of the dogs being exhibited most closely meets the standard. The issue of colour is just one of several points described in the standard. However, we would disagree with your view that a blue dog cannot have a black nose as required by the standard. There are blue dogs exhibited in the UK which have black noses. We hope that this clarification will be of assistance. Yours sincerely Caroline Hallett

I've seen that movie too.... Fingers crossed he's safely found BArtok! I know I've seen the movie too, but it's true. this was our Duke. edit to try to add a picture again Beautiful. The GSD I mentioned was in fact a GSD/Rough Collie cross... clever 'ole thing he was :D Fingers crossed again that you find the dog

Oh I hope he gets home, fingers crossed. If it's any comfort, I grew up with a GSD that used to trek across around 10 - 15 miles of fields to find my brother and I at my grandparents house where we used to spend most of our summer school hols, so that he could play with us.

LOVE it! May I add? 5. Their heads do not crack 6. They do not 'lock on' with their jaws

Was directed to an interesting document after asking for more information regarding blue / pigmentation on another forum... http://www.fci.be/circulaires/14-2009-annex.pdf

I am! Can't tell you the amount of times people say to me 'oooh he's so black!'... I say nope he IS brindle (yep ok there is only one small stripe of brindle, but you get my drift!)....

Ahhh... for the simple answers, I'm all for that Just a shame the simplest answers don't work eh? (And I'm not being sarcastic, I really really mean it!). I guess that's why we don't have so many blue's coming through rescue, they're too much of a money spinner for some......the BYBers.... Sad...

This is probably because when the standard was written people didn't know that genetically it was impossible to get a blue dog with black pigment. There is that, yes. But as the UK KC have recently stopped registrations of the merle colouration in Staffords, I'm surprised that they haven't altered the nose colouring part of the breed standard to reflect the blue colour that IS allowed. Perhaps I'll ask 'em The KC do not change standards. The breed clubs change standards. That's who I meant - the Breed Council. It was the breed council that was approached in regard to the merle colour and it was them who approached the KC and got registrations stopped. Interestingly the 'original' 1935 breed standard for the Stafford doesn't mention the blue coat colour, not is the desired black nose is mentioned - only that dudley nose is a fault to be penalized.

For the SBT breeders it's simple... don't breed blue and remove the accidents that crop up from the gene pool. But do you think they're going to do that? I'm only asking as has already been mentioned, MOST SBT breeders breed for type, conformation, health, NOT colour. But as the blue colouration IS permitted in the standard, do you really think they're going to 'remove the accidents'? As I said, not wanting an argument with anyone here, just genuinely interested (as a non breeder, and some time exhibitor).

This is probably because when the standard was written people didn't know that genetically it was impossible to get a blue dog with black pigment. There is that, yes. But as the UK KC have recently stopped registrations of the merle colouration in Staffords, I'm surprised that they haven't altered the nose colouring part of the breed standard to reflect the blue colour that IS allowed. Perhaps I'll ask 'em :rolleyes:

As much as some people don't like the colour blue, it is accepted in the breed standard. Problem as I've seen it, is that there aren't many GOOD examples of the breed in that particular colour, e.g. light pigmentation in the eyes, etc.... I still don't understand how it can be an accepted colour when genetically they can never meet the breed standard - please someone correct me if I am wrong here (I am no breeder or geneticist). Doesn't the diluted black gene make it impossible (or at least very unlikely) that they will ever have a black nose? (which is standard). You're not alone, I don't understand that part either, eye colour is PREFERRED to be dark, but CAN bear some relation to coat colour, and yes nose black, but blue IS included in the breed standard nontheless. Perhaps it's a question for the breed club? There are blue staffords with 'good' pigmentation, i.e darker noses, eyes etc, but you're right, they're certainly not black black. Good question ... food for thought...

As much as some people don't like the colour blue, it is accepted in the breed standard. Problem as I've seen it, is that there aren't many GOOD examples of the breed in that particular colour, e.g. light pigmentation in the eyes, etc....

The stats http://www.awlqld.com.au/downloads/Statistics200910.pdf

Has anyone mentioned merle Staffordshire Bull Terriers? (I did do a search on the topic, but it didn't come up with any!). Not a colour recognised by the UK Kennel Club (registrations refused from 05/01/2010), and not one I'd like to see in the breed, but it has turned up nontheless (good old cross breeding for ya! tic).

What is the name of the dog you adopted? (The name the AWL gave her). Was it very recent? edited to add, just seen you've said Ipswich AWL, so my questions are irrelevant sorry!

It seems, from the first post, as if all the suggestions you made (above) have been tried without success. If the other dogs are not barkers and one is, debarking is necessary. Lots of dogs are debarked, and seem to suffer no ill effects. Better debarked than dead, in my opinion. Well, no, that's why I said 'I'm sure you've thought of these things, but thought they were worth suggesting anyway'.... dog whisperers were mentioned, trainers etc and the fact that the dog only seems to bark when the owners aren't around and there wasn't mention of a dog walker/sitter that's all I hope the OP manages to find a workable solution.

Could you not hire a dog walker or sitter? Is she an outside dog? If so, would it be worth a try keeping her inside somewhere secure and seeing if that helps? I'm sure you've probably thought of all these things, but thought they were worth suggesting anyway.

http://www.cesarsway.com/dogwhisperer/epis...son-5-episode-8 I think this is the episode people may be referring to. Coco is the name of the 'red zone' Chi that was rehabilitated (and in fact now lives with) Cesar at the centre.

And short haired mid to large sized cross bred dogs are also common and popular - these are the very dogs labelled as "pit bulls" the second one should happen to bite. So it's to be expected that Labs, GSDs and ACDs are commonly represented in bite stats because they're common. It's NOT ''OK'' that other popular types which just so happen to be not to your personal liking to be similarly represented in bite stats. Personally I think the best solution is for EVERYONE who owns a dog to have to be able to prove they are capable of giving their dog the right sort of care. Some people are capable of controlling the biggest and most aggressive dog, others shouldn't be in charge of a dead Basset. I am a responsible owner of Staffordshire Bull Terriers. Why the hell should it cost ME more to own my chosen dogs than it costs my brain dead neighbour across the back who owns two Border Collies that do nothing but chase everything that passes their fence, fight with each other, bark all day and on the one occasion I have seen them out, were uncontrollable and menacing a small child on a bike (yes I did step in). Hear hear. Amazing isn't it that some of us CAN be responsible owners (tic).

Omg, here we go again, if you bother to read the whole thread, you will know that I am referring to the idiots that should never own a dog, let alone a powerful one. I have read the whole thread, hence my reply. Your own sentence states "yet another bull something or rather being responsible for another attack. It's the deed not the breed Blah Blah Blah, so sick of hearing it. Sorry but the d!ckheads that own these sorts breeds have much to answer for." Again, hence my reply. Interestingly though, no response regarding the two newspaper articles I also happen to have posted. Shock, horror - NOT a bull something responsible. No interest there then? I didn't write the report did I? I am simply stating my feelings here, if you don't like well tough. What a delightful way of debating you have! Tough??????? I'm not talking about the report, I'm talking about how YOU have responded. Magnificent way of twisting things. And still no comment on the other news reports...

Omg, here we go again, if you bother to read the whole thread, you will know that I am referring to the idiots that should never own a dog, let alone a powerful one. I have read the whole thread, hence my reply. Your own sentence states "yet another bull something or rather being responsible for another attack. It's the deed not the breed Blah Blah Blah, so sick of hearing it. Sorry but the d!ckheads that own these sorts breeds have much to answer for." Again, hence my reply. Interestingly though, no response regarding the two newspaper articles I also happen to have posted. Shock, horror - NOT a bull something responsible. No interest there then?