angelsun

Clarifying, it is not against the LAW..it is against the rules of the registery in that state, (Dogs NSW). Many back yard breeders mate on the first season and every subsequent one...they provide what RSPCA requires for housing, food/water etc, and never have an issue. They are not charged with abuse, nor are they put out of business, in fact, they thrive much to the exploitation of their animals being used. ANYONE can take a bitch, breed it on the first heat cycle and sell the pups without risk of being charged by a LAW...in VIC, just add a microchip, and all is well with the world. It is ONLY the registries that make these RULES, and they only apply to purebred dogs, in that, by breaking them, the dogs will be ineligible for registrations. Unless of course you're in Vic and have a litter of unknown parentage, and then you'll still get papers on them..but that is another story! Actually in NSW it is against the LAW as these things are standards written into the NSW State Government's Code of Practice for Breeding Dogs and Cats (see section 10.1.1.) and non compliance is subject to prosecution under the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals Act 1979, and/or the Prevention of Cruelty to Animal (General) Regulation 2006. Has there been prosecutions then?

Clarifying, it is not against the LAW..it is against the rules of the registery in that state, (Dogs NSW). Many back yard breeders mate on the first season and every subsequent one...they provide what RSPCA requires for housing, food/water etc, and never have an issue. They are not charged with abuse, nor are they put out of business, in fact, they thrive much to the exploitation of their animals being used. ANYONE can take a bitch, breed it on the first heat cycle and sell the pups without risk of being charged by a LAW...in VIC, just add a microchip, and all is well with the world. It is ONLY the registries that make these RULES, and they only apply to purebred dogs, in that, by breaking them, the dogs will be ineligible for registrations. Unless of course you're in Vic and have a litter of unknown parentage, and then you'll still get papers on them..but that is another story!

I was chipping baby chinese cresteds without issues at six weeks..why suddenly is there such an outcry about the size of the chip or needle now and the assumption that a toy breed can't be chipped at a young age due to the size (and therefore the apparent need for a micro micro chip?) The law is simple...you adverstise a single animal, you include the chip number..I'm not getting what the big deal is on this.... I can advertise that a litter is born, what gender, what colour etc...as a GROUP.....I advertise a single pup or pups and include a chip....I simply don't see what the problem is. I have heard, first hand....from some mutt breeders who have said flat out...because of the new law, they 'can't make any money breeding' and so have stopped...this is not a bad thing....so clearly at least in my area, in some cases, the new rule is working. As for registered breeders.....wait til they impliment mandatory DNA testing....boy are we going to hear them scream....been there, done that..agree with it full on....then we have no more 'irish wolfhound' situations and the resulting pedigree problem....

It's important at this point to clarify that it's not against the law to breed a bitch on her first season, but it IS against the registeration councils RULES that apply to members.... I'm a believer of back to back matings, and young if possible. I've tried other ways and not been as successful. The bitches are then spayed and retired and live long happy lives. The new Vic rules which say my breed can not be MATED until 18 months are insane.....(in my opinion) but it seems that my voice as a registered breeder and one of two in my state for my breed, goes unheard. I do continue to snort at the 'rules' which many are based on old style beliefs passed down for generations and upheld by canine councils.....new technology is NOT embraced (ask anyone who's brought in semen and/or registered it for use and the paperwork involved) as well as one of the most influencial repro specialists in the WORLD, who's recommendations seem to be ignored by those in power of the canine councils that CLAIM to be protectors of purebreds.

You only need one pup..if it's a good one! :) Honestly, after my last work to import semen, it would have been less stressful and cheaper to put the dog on a plane and send him over for six months or so....testing is still the same whether he came or just the semen which in my opinion is absolutely nuts.

I thought it was 6 in Vic with any litters after that needing vet certificate for health status? I agree what people are saying, to have a blanket rule about maximum is ridiculous....but they won't listen, just the same as they didn't when they brought in new minimum ages, without consultation of registered breeders for those breeds being changed...

I'll go for seven...

Exactly, and when many of our modern breeds were developed, years ago...it wasn't for immediate financial gain. There was a bigger purpose to the matings that occured. Many kennels had hundreds of dogs there, kennel help etc...yes a wealthy owners game then....but they often never sold a pup or a litter...hardly a profitable hobby, or one with finances being the main drive to the development of a breed. My own breed for example, close to extinction, was bred back to the smaller version to get some genetic material that was almost lost.....these dogs were never sold, but held by the man in charge of bringing the dogs back to life, and it was in fact generations before they were put out in others hands. The mating that brought into play our larger cousin, also were done without profits. It seems that our modern day breeders have the distinction of doing it for cash.....the DD breeders only concern because they don't worry about development of a new breed, breeding true or consistant. I groom hundreds of dogs, and a huge percentage of those are mutts...maltese/shihtzu crosses mostly....a wider range of size, coat type and structures you won't ever see....I am seeing some second generation offspring right now...from a malt/shih father and a malt mother....again, all over the map in looks and size and coat type....these pups were purchased for healthy sums....why were they bred in the first place....because they figured they might as well do it, sell them and pay for either the desex of the bitch later, or their upcoming holiday. There are no other motivations....anyone that argues that point is clearly living in a cave and has been for some time.

This is correct, but the end game with the modern purebreds was to create something to breed 'true' and consistant. DD's do not have this goal, only financial rewards. Therein lies the BIG difference!

Manchesters aren't to be sparred either...I was asked many years ago, refused and asked to leave the ring...yup, that judge got a complaint filed on them! Anyway.... When done correctly, it's amazing...doesn't promote aggression, just alertness. Sparring terriers at the big shows in the states gives one goosebumps....bringing out the big male airedales at Montgomery County show in October in Pennsylvania, is not for the wimpy hearts but is spectacular to watch and participate in....never are any at risk of injury. So much is misunderstood about sparring....it's a dying art for both handlers and dogs....many of the dogs now, are too soft and uninterested on any level to spar correctly...such a shame...but it's similar to the gundogs that bolt and run at the sound of a shotgun....

because they slap a 'cute' name on the pups, tell potential buyers a bunch of lies about the cross only having the best of the good parts of each parent and assure them that they will have something noone else will....welcome to todays society,

I beleive you can advertise a newborn litter (as a litter), but when you advertise individual pups, they must include the chip number. No one seems to be doing it though..all you have to do is look at DOL advertising for breeders in Vic and see how LITTLE they abide by the rules. I brought this to the attention of the owner of the website and was told there wasn't anything they could do to police it....I beleive that there has been some checks and balances put in place to ensure that anyone advertising from Vic, includes the chip number. As for chipping, I do mine at 4-5 weeks...(and mine are smaller than dobes) Yes the needle is big, but that's irrelivant and often the arguement used by toy breeders to not chip. Over the years I have chipped thousands of dogs of different breeds and never had any ill effects. I have never hit a nerve, a vein or caused any physical damage (unlike what some vets and supposedly approved chippers have done)My chips don't migrate....they stay where I put them. I'm in the middle of a fairly heavy puppy farm district (or back yard breeders if you will) and BOY are they pissed off that they are told that they have to chip before selling....another vet bill??? Most simply don't do it, because the law is difficult to enforce....mark my words, the sale of backyard pups will now soon include the statement.."well if you don't want it chipped, it'll cost you only this much", much the same as we hear about 'papers'. It's a good intention law, that won't really solve too many problems, but kudos for trying. (from someone that's been d tattooing for over twenty years because it's the right thing to do, not because I was legislated into doing it!)

Before and during is a layer of newspaper and a polar fleece blanket. I find it works quite nicely. Once finished, things are cleaned up and fresh polar fleece is put in. Day two is when I start using vet bed....reason is because the bitch is usually digging up for a day or two and the polar fleece I clamp in place to the sides of the box to prevent it from moving around and burying pups. Once she's over the digging, the vet bed goes in.

My pups never sleep outside, regardless of age. We have them inside at night and if the weather is fit, they go out into a puppy pen with extra expens that get larger as they need it, but we often just turf them out in the yard to wander on their own. (no enclosure) When they appear to get tired, if they crash on the front step, we move them to the puppy pen with their kennel and bed and they have a snooze. Often at 4 weeks or later, they put themselves to bed during the day. This winter has been cold and they didn't get much outside time before 10am and were inside by 2pm. Last summer, the pups were out at 5am and stayed out til dusk quite happily. (they need to come in then, because the mozzies will eat them!)

Sad day at the vet today. One of the pups that was to fly to a family on Friday has a very severe and life threatening heart murmur, so the decision was made to put him to sleep. The pup I was to keep will be sent instead to the lovely family. Not fun doing this at 8 weeks of age....

I have a 2/2 hips and she puts them straight out behind her....the other 2/2 girl does the wide froggie thing...so not sure about that one!

A tiny bit of paper, that you can see has been cut from a full sheet so they got probably 20 of them....yup, that's a huge expense. The fact that more and more want this sort of information to help plan their weekend and make it a more enjoyable experience....bet the show organizers would really love to see less bitching on show day. If the shows closed ON TIME...then there would be no rushing to get any paperwork done, be it show secretary or cataloguer....I'm pretty sure that would save some headaches and to those that depend or only do late entries...guess you might want to change your habits. (or offer to do the show sec. job sometime and see what a pain of a job it really can be when it comes to late entries and demanding exhibitors!) When I did the job...a breakdown not only of the breed, but of the sex was done....we had to list males/females and 'specials' (which are champion class) All breeds and groups were done, as well as times for starting each group (you were not permitted to start before the time given on your paper, but if the organizers did it right, you always ran about 10 minutes behind...no one got a surprise and missed a call, and there wasn't a ring sitting empty, waiting for the time to tick to the top and begin again) It's seriously not a lot of work, nor is it any great expense....we (the clubs) used to pay postage too.....so count yourselves all lucky I say. In this age of electronic wonders....it's common to get breed counts online...it's not a big ask as many clubs work on computers for their stuff..either entrys or catalogues..if the judges get the breakdown, it should be posted. Half hour more work? Not even....but the results of such a simple thing, could make not only shows run smoother, but a whole lot happier crowd, and as we know...dog shows can bring out the crankies.

That's a big height difference..I'd be doing AI's as it's far easier on both male and female. She doesn't have to stand on tippy toes (and yes, they will when tied) and he doesn't have to slouch down.

My little twerps at four weeks, just before the big breakout over the wall of the whelping box....can't you just hear this one telling the others the best way to do it?

Dogs don't read the books...keep an eye out...I've had bitches go on day 58 after mating, and as long as 65. It's not a case of when she 'stood the best' it's when she was ovulating. Some of my girls are absolute tarts and in the end, you gotta go by progesterone to know precisely.

Or walk all the way over to the other ring? (there are only four rings)

My Cavaliers do that but I've never seen a GSD do it! Our Bekki does it all the time and no, she doesn't have 0/0 hips, but she's got good scores. Our GSD babies also do it regularly. On the subject of hips and flexibility!! A breeder friend of mine, often told me that she watches her bitch puppies very closely at about 6 weeks onward when they pee. If they almost touch their knees to the ground when they do it, they will have correct angulation in the rear. I'd never heard anyone else mention this, and in truth, her girls she kept all were superior for their breed in that department. I wonder if anyone else has heard this one?

The gang at 23 days old.

Agreed on the topline. In regards to specific standards...many will call for a roach and then describe where and what exactly that entails...the difference between a rise and a roach is location....in my breed (and in Manchesters before) we had a rise in the loin...that explains that the higher point is on the loin, not over the mid range back, where some of the sight hounds are. Agreed on the comments about east/west feet, however because most standards are up to interpretation, slightly turned out, to one person, may be east/west to another.....it's important to read the standard for the breed and base the photo on that standard and not slap one rule over all of them. Bassett for example are to be slightly turned out and I know many out there that will continue to call them east/west when in fact, they aren't. The same with elbow space...being 'out at the elbow' can be bad, but in some breeds with smoother ribs (not curved as much) the spacing is more and will give to those that don't know the finer points, the impression that they are 'out'. Neo's for example are to have large round flat feet....but a bullmastiff, another giant heavy breed, doesn't call for this. So seeing round flat feet on a bullmastiff would be very wrong, but not incorrect on a neo. Cresteds should have the two middle toes noticably longer than the others and yet if I was to have that in my GP's it would be 'pet quality' :) To reiterate...it's important to remember that some structures are not faults in some breeds and to be able to educate those wanting to learn, that this is the case.

I don't have a problem with your list...as a buyer, you have as much right to scrutinize a breeder as we do, you as a buyer...breeders often ask this many or MORE and demand a LOT more of the buyer, and many will take offense to being asked so much...way I figure it, I love that you give a rats patootie about the dogs, and where they come from enough that you would ask all this. I as a breeder would have no issues going through each one, and putting an answer to it....you might not get a big answer each one, but you would get something.