angelsun

Hey, bring both...it's not big deal..... And a word of advice....not having seen the application your speaking of for the iPhone....please don't go all out and practice stuff that may not be correct....you will end up VERY confused... Remember peoples...this is a FUN thing and yes can be a lot to learn but once I'm done with you on the Saturday you will have a VERY clear understanding of the sport and you DONT have to come into the seminar with any experience or knowledge of either obedience or rally for that matter....(yes I"m that good! haha) Don't make this out to be more complex than it is....it's fun, simple and challenging all wrapped up into one.

Positive is not permissive. This sums things up totally. I am a positive person with a positive attitude towards training, however I am NOT permissive when it comes to dogs actions/behaviours. I have been hearing (from my class of 'problem children') similar methods of training, which are not effective for the majority of dogs or owners. Dogs and owners being told that they are disruptive (and not because they are late, but because of either the owner or the breed involved!) Dogs deemed unsuitable for class because they are leash aggressive, dogs asked to not return to class because they quite simply, have issues beyond the instructors ablility to fix by feeding them. This is why I have an obedience class now. These people and their pets need structure and yes, with a positive twist. I allow food but instruct when the best time to use it, I also like to see a toy reward if a dog is more toy/play motivated, but again, only when suitable. I will not allow head halters or body harnesses on my dogs in class because it does not help fix any problems, and hence why you see all those dogs yanking their owners around. They are simply not taught to respect the lead. I will not hurt any dogs in my class, but I do make them mind. I do not advocate yelling at the dogs, but a stern 'no' won't crush their spirit. We don't have chairs or mats, because sitting down isn't teaching a dog to stop pulling on a lead. The first ten minutes of class is usually a bit spirited but they all settle down and begin to focus and work. We teach focus with praise and not allowing the dog to sit around and be bored. We teach attentiveness with quick direction changes when heeling. I teach the handlers to use a correction collar properly, and the goal is to move to a flat collar when the dog earns that reward. In a short period of time, we have the leash aggressive dog, walking about 2 metres from other dogs without lunging. We have the barker, not barking and we have the sniffing gundog more focused and wanting to work. Many of these dogs in my class attempted the so called 'positive reinforcement' classes and yet are now with me. They are learning and are happy owners that say their dogs are like new animals because of some basic rules. I won't compare dogs to kids...as it usually incites a riot on the forum, but I will say flat out....can you imagine your frustration if you didn't speak a language and you were surrounded by it and clearly being asked to do something which you weren't sure of. Asked to behave or move a certain way and yet because you don't speak the language and have no negative impact from an action, you continue to act a certain way, not knowing that in fact it is the undesired behaviour. It's hard to explain this properly, and I do it much better in an inclass situation! I recently heard a statistic of in the course of one year, three CGC graduates for a club and this was considered to be a 'great' achievement. After digging into the CGC issue (as noted in another thread) and learning more about the current methods of teaching by those that hold these tests, I can in a way see why they consider this to be a big deal......I've watched dogs that have moved through these instructions and taken course and level after level, to be substandard when it comes to behaving in an acceptable manner (in my opinion and compared to counterparts with similar starting issues using other training methods) There will always be a debate when it comes to who's right and what method is more correct, but I will add that the current major positive reinforcement trainers from what I have seen/witnessed do not take into account the individual breeds and their predisposition towards certain behaviours and attempt to lump all dogs into one pile and apply one technique to deal with them. I have a wide variety of dogs in my current class, all with separate issues which I know have not been handled by the instructors out there with their 'diplomas' in positive reinforcement training. These dogs that when they came to me, were in fact a bit chaotic, have made drastic changes and all positive.

I'm thinking that the host club in Perth will be running classes prior to this event, however I know that most clubs wait til after the seminar and when they have a better understanding of the sport and stations, to run classes so that they don't risk teaching things incorrectly. I use some of the rally stations in my regular obedience class that I am teaching to break up the boring bits that can happen in those. My class is starting to get very excited when they come and see the signs pegged to the ground, knowing that they must warm up their dog correctly and quickly in order to go 'do the fun stuff'! We are looking at an officially sanctioned event by next year (2011) if all goes as planned. Many are working very very hard to see this happen. I'm also beginning to do the judges education seminars starting in a month or so, which means we are very close to seeing this sport finally come here and be enjoyed (by the masses!)

Guarantee that all will enjoy and do well (ok, well maybe after the first run which traditionally everyone chokes on!) This is a very fun sport, and after you get to listen to me talk all day on Saturday, you will be MORE than ready to put the lessons to practice. Besides....on the Sunday, I'm not allowed to talk when judging....which might be a good thing!

Just remember....the seminar is to teach YOU to teach your dog....when you are marked on the Sunday, it's not about what your dog can do or not do, but if you have learned from the lecture on the Saturday. Only the bare bones basics of obedience are really needed and only so you don't get frustrated doing the courses. Do not underestimate your dogs ability..you will be amazed at what you as a team can do in this sport compared to traditional obedience work.

A judge change entitles an exhibitor to get a full refund for that event only, however the request must be put in writing and in the hands of the Show Secretary no less than one hour prior to the event starting that day.

I am going to pursue this further as I dig deeper into this simply because I'm getting more and more emails and PM's from folks that have been turned down by the organization that offers both the training and the testing simply because the owners might have a quirky dog with some issues that are above their ability to 'feed' better. First off, let me say that I do not beleive in specific CGC training. To find the true test of the dog based on the criteria above, you need to go in cold and with only the basics of sit/stay/recall for example to know for sure if you have a social animal or a well trained one. I have a dog here that with a touch more training, would easily pass, and yet I consider him to be a 'problem child' and in my opinion, not worthy of the title for which it is intended. Yes I've seen dogs fail CGC however the test isn't to the level that the Temperament Testing is done or the WAC testing done in some working (utility) breeds overseas, never mind the 'spidar' testing done in Sweden on the Pinschers which a majority of dogs would fail that pride themselves on their CGC's here. I personally think the CGC requirements aren't strong enough, however, they are what they are. I believe that we DO need something for the average pet owner that isn't interested in trialling (although this is where Rally Obedience will fill the void as well) and the benefits of TRULY having Canine Good Neighbours instead of dogs that are trained to pass a test, will benefit society overall in this day in age where dog legislation is strangling us with more rules and restrictions everytime we turn around. I also have a problem with only one faction of training (or methodization if you prefer) that is deemed appropriate to allow dogs and their owners to attempt this test. I personal do not believe that Delta is the be all/end all. They have aspects of their methods that are positive and work well, a lot of other aspects do not. I've seen the result of dogs attending these training classes that after months and months of work still can not walk to heel or sit when commanded unless there is food stuffed in their faces. Lord help the owners that go for a walk with their pet and forget to fill their pockets with hotdogs..... Because of this, I feel that a huge percentage of average pet owners are not able to get the satisfaction out of working with their dog in a test such as this, and getting the rewards as well as understanding if the dog does not pass, where they need to focus their attention on making the dog a better behaved and more well trained social citizen in today's world.

Thanks for all the responses...keep them coming, I am VERY interested in this topic and am seriously considering lobbying the ANKC to bring in a program similar to the Canadian one or the American one (they have only ten steps but it's basically the same deal)

I found the PDF file of the Canadian version of the CGC which is known as the Canine Good Neighbour. I would be interested to find out peoples comments on this test versus what is available now. I am somewhat concerned to read that the only dog eligible for the CGC here, must attend a training course and it must be through Delta to be invited to attempt this test. What about the people and their dogs that Delta deems unsuitable for participation in training? I"m running across a staggering number of dogs and their owners that have been 'kicked out' of Delta organized training classes as they are deemed too unruly or 'a distraction' to the other dogs. If these dogs can't be trained, what will happen to them? (it's a retorical question to which I know the unfortunate outcome) 1. Accepting a friendly stranger This test demonstrates the dog’s ability to allow a friendly stranger to approach and speak to the handler in a natural, everyday manner. NOTE: Tests 1, 2 and 3 may be combined to flow from one to the other. Description of Test The evaluator will walk toward the handler and dog and greet the handler in a friendly manner, shake hands with the handler and ignore the dog. The evaluator is assessing that the handler is in control of the dog and that the dog is not threatened by the approach of a stranger. Handler and Dog 1. As the evaluator approaches, the handler may tell the dog to sit and quietly reassure the dog. 2. The handler may not hold the collar tightly or in any other way restrain the dog. 3. While it is not necessary for the dog to be sitting, it is important that the dog does not break position, move toward or interfere with the evaluator. Dogs that exhibit the following will be rated as “Not Ready”: • The dog displays an overly exuberant attitude. • The dog leaps or attempts to leap up on the evaluator. • The dog hangs back or tries to avoid the approaching evaluator. • The dog exhibits fearfulness, resentment or shyness. 2.Politely accepts petting This test demonstrates the dog’s ability to allow a friendly stranger to pet it while it is out with its handler. This test is a natural progression from Test 1. In most instances, when encountering a friend or acquaintance with your dog, the dog will be included in the conversation and will usually be petted. Description of Test The evaluator will request permission to pet the dog and will then proceed to pet the dog on the head and shoulders. The evaluator is assessing whether the dog remains calm while a stranger pets it. Handler and Dog 1. The dog is to be sitting beside the handler (either left or right side is acceptable). 2. The handler may talk to his/her dog throughout the exercise. 3. The dog does not have to maintain the sitting position but must remain in place. 4. If the handler commands the dog to sit and the dog does not respond, the handler may lightly touch the dog on the hindquarters but may not physically force the dog into a sitting position. 5. The handler may not physically restrain the dog either by use of the collar or any other method. Dogs that exhibit the following will be rated as “Not Ready”: • The dog is not steady when a stranger pets it. • The dog attempts to jump up. • The dog exhibits resentment or shyness. 3. Appearance and grooming This practical test demonstrates that the dog will accept being groomed and examined and will permit a stranger to do so, such as a veterinarian, groomer, friend of the owner etc. It also demonstrates the owner’s care, concern and sense of responsibility for his dog’s well being. Description of Test The evaluator will ask for the grooming tool before the test begins. The evaluator will inspect the dog to determine if it is clean, groomed, appears in good health and in good weight. The evaluator will lightly examine the ears, teeth, eyes and each front foot of the dog and softly comb or brush it on the body. The evaluator will then walk behind the handler and dog, returning to face the team. The evaluator is testing for shyness and/or resentment. Handler and Dog 1. The handler will provide the evaluator with the grooming tool before the test begins. 2. The dog is not required to maintain a sitting position. 3. The handler may encourage the dog during the test. 4. The handler may use light collar pressure in positioning the dog, but no physical restraint. Dogs that exhibit the following will be rated as “Not Ready”: • The dog exhibits shyness or resentment. • The dog is not clean, well groomed, does not appear healthy or in good weight. 4. Out for a walk This test demonstrates the ability of the dog to walk politely on a loose leash as well as the handler’s ability to control the dog. Description of Test At the beginning of the test, the evaluator will indicate to the handler the area in which they are to walk. The handler will walk in a straight line, demonstrating at least one right and left turn as well as a 180-degree turn. The evaluator will be assessing the dog’s ability to walk quietly near the handler without pulling the leash taut. The evaluator will note that the dog responds to the handler’s changes of direction. Handler and Dog 1. The dog may be on either side of the handler. 2. The handler may speak quietly to the dog throughout the test. 3. The dog is required to walk near the handler without pulling or straining. 4. The leash should be loose in order to demonstrate that the dog is under control and is not being steered by the handler. 5. The handler and dog are required to walk a straight line, make at least one right and one left turn as well as a 180- degree turn. 6. The dog is not required to sit when the handler stops walking. Dogs that exhibit the following will be rated as “Not Ready”: • The dog does not respond to the handler’s movements and changes in direction. • The handler must pull the leash taut to control the dog. • The dog does not walk quietly without restraint. • The dog is not attentive to the handler. 5. Walking through a crowd This test demonstrates the dog’s ability to walk politely beside the handler in pedestrian traffic while remaining under control at all times. NOTE: The requirements for this test are the same as test 4, except the dog may only show mild interest in the strangers. Description of Test The evaluator will instruct the handler to walk with the dog (on either the handler’s left or right side) through and by a group of several people (at least 5). The evaluator is assessing the dog’s ability to maintain a position close to the handler without being unduly stressed or becoming unruly, as well as the handler’s ability to control the dog. Handler and Dog 1. The dog should remain on one side of the handler for the duration of the test. 2. The dog is not required to maintain a heeling position beside the handler but may not be so far ahead or behind the handler as to create an impediment to individuals walking by. 3. The handler may talk to the dog and provide verbal encouragement and praise during the test. 4. The handler may not steer the dog with the leash. 5. The dog may show mild interest in the strangers but should not go to them. Dogs that exhibit the following will be rated as “Not Ready”: • The dog displays more than mild interest in the strangers or goes to them. • The dog is straining on the leash and displays excessive exuberance. • The dog exhibits shyness, resentment or is jumping. • The handler is unable to control the dog. • The dog becomes stressed or unruly. 6. Sit/Down on command and stay in place (long line) This test demonstrates the dog’s ability to respond to the handler’s commands to sit and down and to remain in place on command. NOTE: Tests 6 and 7 require the use of a long line provided by the sponsoring organization. Description of Test The evaluator will provide the handler with a 6 meter (20’) line, which the handler should attach to the dog’s collar prior to the commencement of the test. The short leash should be removed once the long line is attached. The evaluator will instruct the handler to place the dog in either a sit or down position, command the dog to stay, and walk to the end of the long line. The handler will then turn to face the dog and promptly return to the dog. The evaluator is testing for the dog’s response to basic commands. Handler and Dog 1. The handler may take a reasonable amount of time and may use more than one command to sit or down the dog. 2. The handler may gently touch the dog in an effort to assist the dog in assuming either the sit or down position. 3. The handler may not physically place or force the dog into position. The handler may repeat a command and use signals and gestures to assist the dog as well as a light touch. 4. Once prone, the dog must remain in place. 5. Once the dog is in either the sit or down position, the handler is to command it to “stay”, then walk away from the dog to the end of the long line. 6. Once reaching the end of the long line, the handler will turn to face the dog and without pausing return to the dog. 7. The handler is not required to walk behind the dog in returning to heel position. 8. The handler is not required to wait for the evaluator to indicate an end to the test after he returns to the dog. Dogs that exhibit the following will be rated as “Not Ready”: • The dog does not respond to basic commands of sit or down. • The dog does not obey the command to stay in place. 7. Come when called (long line) This test demonstrates the dog’s ability to come when called by the handler. NOTE: Tests 7 and 8 may be combined so as to flow from one to the next. Description of Test The long line remains attached to the dog’s collar. The evaluator will stand near the dog and instruct the handler to position the dog in either a sit, down or stand position. The handler will command the dog to “stay or wait “ and then will walk a distance of 3 meters (8 – 10’), before turning and calling the dog. When called, the dog must come close enough for the handler to touch it. The evaluator is checking whether the dog will remain where left and will respond quickly to the handler’s command to come. Handler and Dog 1. The dog may change position, but must remain in place when waiting for the command to come. 2. When called, the dog must come at a reasonable speed without stopping to sniff or wandering off. 3. The dog may drop its head to sniff, but must continue towards the handler. 4. The dog must come close enough for the handler to touch it but is not required to sit. 5. The handler may use body motions and verbal encouragement. Dogs that exhibit the following will be rated as “Not Ready”: • The dog does not remain in place when the handler walks away. • The dog does not come on command at a reasonable speed. • The dog sniffs or wanders off (It is acceptable if the dog drops its head to sniff, but continues toward the handler.) 8. Praise/Interaction This test demonstrates that the dog can be easily calmed following play or praise. Description of Test The evaluator will instruct the handler to command the dog to “Come”, and then to commence a play session with the dog. After about 10 seconds of play, the evaluator will then instruct the handler to calm the dog. The evaluator is assessing both the handler’s control of the dog and the dog’s ability to respond quickly to the handler’s command to settle. Handler and Dog 1. The handler may use any combination of verbal praise, and playful postures, gestures or actions to engage the dog in play or in the performance of tricks. 2. When calming the dog, the handler’s voice may be firm but must not be loud or angry. 3. The handler may use more than one command to calm the dog but the dog must display an attitude of controlled behaviour following calming efforts on the part of the handler. Dogs that exhibit the following will be rated as “Not Ready”: • The handler is using forcible leash pressure to calm the dog. • The dog does not settle quickly. • The handler does not have control of the dog. 9. Reaction to passing dog This test demonstrates the dog’s polite behaviour while in the presence of other dogs and handlers. Description of Test The test is set up using another handler/dog team that are not being evaluated. This team is placed 6 meters (20’) from the handler and dog being tested. The handlers and their dogs will approach one another, stop, shake hands, briefly chat and continue on past each other for approximately 2 meters (6’). The dog being tested should exhibit no more than casual interest. The evaluator is assessing behaviour on the part of the dog and the handler’s control of the dog. Handler and Dog 1. The handler should command the dog to heel before beginning to walk toward the other handler/dog team. 2. Upon reaching the other team, the handler should command the dog to sit, thereafter greeting the other handler and chatting briefly. 3. The dog may not be restrained. 4. The dog may show mild interest in the other handler and dog but may not move toward the other dog, or exhibit shy or aggressive behaviour. 5. The handler may use additional commands to ensure a response from the dog but may not jerk or grab it. Dogs that exhibit the following will be rated as “Not Ready”: • The dog does not respond to the handler’s instructions. • The handler is forced to jerk or grab the dog. • The dog moves toward the other dog. 10. Reaction to distractions This test demonstrates that the dog is confident at all times when faced with common visual and auditory distractions found in everyday life, such as the sudden opening or closing of a door, crutches, wheelchair, baby stroller, loud noises, etc. Description of Test The evaluator will instruct the handler to begin walking with his dog on a loose leash beside him. Several people will walk by in any direction using one or more distractions. The distractions will not be an attempt to frighten the dog, but rather something the dog encounters in everyday life, such as baby strollers, walkers, canes, someone carrying a ladder, etc. The evaluator is observing the dog’s reaction to the distractions as well as the dog’s response to the handler’s commands. Handler and Dog 1. The handler may command the dog to walk at heel while the individuals walk by. 2. The handler may speak encouragingly to the dog, but may not steer the dog with the leash nor attempt to restrain the dog. 3. The dog may startle but should recover quickly. 4. The dog may express natural interest and curiosity. 5. The dog may bark once or twice. Dogs that exhibit the following will be rated as “Not Ready”: • The dog shows panic, tries to run away. • The dog does not respond to the handler’s commands. • The dog shows fear. • The dog continues to bark. 11. Supervised isolation This test demonstrates the dog’s ability to be left alone with a trusted person other than its handler, while maintaining a calm acceptance of the situation. Description of Test The handler will walk with the dog to a designated person (assistant evaluator), and hand over the leash. The handler may command the dog to sit or lie down and wait/stay. Then the handler will leave the area and go to a pre-designated location, out of sight of the dog. The handler will wait 3 minutes until called to return by the assistant evaluator. The evaluator is observing the dog’s ability to maintain good manners when left alone with another person. The dog may show some mild stress, but should not bark, pace or pant excessively. Neither should the dog attempt to climb up on the assistant, nor pull away. (If the dog should become excessively agitated, the evaluator will call the handler back before the time required, and the dog will be judged “Not Ready.”) Handler and Dog 1. The dog does not have to maintain position or place with the assistant evaluator. 2. The dog may not show signs of excessive stress. 3. Mild stress or nervousness is acceptable behaviour. Dogs that exhibit the following will be rated as “Not Ready”: • The dog attempts to climb on the assistant evaluator. • The dog continually barks, whines, howls, paces or pants excessively. • The dog pulls on the leash in an attempt to get away. 12. Walking through a door/gate This test demonstrates the dog’s response to the handler’s commands as well as the handler’s ability to control the dog in a restricted area while moving ahead of the dog and through a door/gate. Description of Test The handler will command the dog to sit and wait. The handler will then walk through the opening (door/gate). Once through, the handler will instruct the dog to walk through the opening and return to the handler’s side. Alternatively, if the opening is large enough for the two of them to pass through simultaneously, then the handler may instruct the dog to maintain a steady position beside the handler as they walk through the opening together. The evaluator is assessing the dog’s ability to respond to commands from the handler as well as the handler’s ability to control the dog in a restricted area. Handler and Dog 1. The handler may talk quietly to the dog as they approach the opening. 2. If walking through the opening simultaneously, the dog should maintain a loose leash throughout and should not lunge forward in an attempt to pass through ahead of the handler. 3. In the event the opening is too small, the handler may quietly command the dog to wait (or sit and wait) while the handler walks through. Dogs that exhibit the following will be rated as “Not Ready”: • The handler does not have control of the dog or jerks the dog in an attempt to maintain control. • The dog does not obey the handler’s command. • The dog lunges or charges ahead of the handler.

Could someone out there send me a link or post the requirements for the CGC here in Australia. I know the rules in Canada and the States but have been told that the testing is different here. I would like to ask as well the training clubs out there, if training for this test is routine here or is it something that isnt' really trained for but regular obedience prepares the dogs for this testing. If your club does hold training for this, how long average are you finding it takes and what is your success rate for attaining a title? As well, is this an accredited ANKC title? Sorry bout all the questions and thanks in advance for answers or even partial answers.

Kerry can correct me if I"m wrong, but if memory serves, it's about the same with Sunday a bit higher (I think I heard 419 for last years second show)

When you mentioned things could go wrong, did you flat out say his beloved pet could die? Often hitting between the eyes with something like that is enough to push the owners to do the right thing.

Because they see the 'bite work' and because the media stirs things up and calls it 'attack work' or other nonsense, the general public sees this as a display of aggression in the same vein as they do when they see dogs attacking people/kids on TV. It's called ignorance. The other issue are those that train that have no idea what they are doing and push dogs that do not have the inner strength to perform this sport.

It takes a lot to push my button and then hence make me push THAT button, but I have. A few times when comments have become personal and a few other times when the thread has been contaminated by clearly someone of younger age trying to stir things up.

Thanks Steve....am hoping we can clear these off quick and bug you for more. Will be in touch.

Just a reminder Steve about the two books of raffle tickets that are to be sent to us...we can't sell them if we don't have them....and believe me....we can sell them. We had a lot of people asking where they were at Tumba.

Yes I agree...I was very delinquent in putting in any nominations for this year, but will put the effort into it more for the 2011 awards.

Bob that what I was getting at with my post. I was looking at the GT Website today and they where quoting the 50% 25% ratios. Its 2 out of 4 carrier, 1 out of 4 clear and 1 out of 4 affected per each egg and sperm. So above result is entirely possible. We have VWD in my breed so we run into this sort of thing all the time. What was mentioned for clear to carrier: applies for carrier to carrier as well. Because each parent has one clear marker and one carrier, each puppy of a carrier to carrier mating has a chance to be clear (taking that one clear from each parent), it also has the chance of taking a clear and a carrier marker to become a carrier, and then the chance of taking a carrier marker from each parent to become affected. It's not about the total numbers in the litter as that will vary. These figures apply to each individual pup within the litter. I have a friend that did (before the DNA test to conclusively determine carriers with vWD) a carrier to carrier, and although the odds seem to read that there is a 25% chance of getting a clear from this, she got of five pups, three carriers and two affected. The odds certainly were against her in that litter. Regardless of the state, or the regulations set in place, I do not beleive there is just cause for doing a carrier/carrier breeding regardless of the health issue discussed. Would people that did not have to worry about the legislation, give this a second thought? Or is it simply because 'big brother' is watching, would they change their breeding plans?

A majority of shows in the USA have toys and terriers in covered areas...there is never any conflict about this from either the inside or the outside dogs. There are positives and negatives on both sides of the arguement. Show people generally segregate themselves here I find regardless of this sort of situation. Very seldom will you see anyone other than those in your group, visiting, or socializing outside the area of their rings. It's very apparent when the rings are spread around and only a few touching.

Tony and I would like to extend our personal congratulations to Troy as this years recipient for the Dianne Gunn-Scarcella award. It was two years on Sunday that she departed this world and clearly she is still missed. We can not think of a better person to receive the award this year and Troy is now in great company with last years wonderful winner Julie (Steve) and the 2008 winner Bob (Kojak) We hope to attend next years event and inspite of Tony's dislike to speak in public (which is odd as this man can talk under water most times!) he will be able to present his late wifes award to next years lucky recipient. Congratulations to all the winners!

Closing is coming up very soon and we are hoping that folks will come to these shows in Myrtleford Vic. I will be taking entries at Tumbarumba if anyone wishes to drop them off (look for our 8 berth dog float and probably the red large gazebo over top of it) and I"ll be sure they get to the Show Secretary.

Have been chatting with my co breeder who has the dog and we are working on things to keep her in Canada as long as we can to avoid extended quarantine times..I agree...isn't my first choice but given the set of conditions with my friend and her moving for work, makes things a bit tricker! Thanks to all that have PM'd me re: information...very appreciated!! Boy, it's certainly a complex peice of work...I need more patience....lord help me, I"ll be doing this again early next year too! (should be easier as I should know what to expect....I hope!)

Yes Canada is a catagory 4 country. Will let my co breeder know she needs to get moving and get those bloods drawn as the countdown starts then! I may still have to import a bit earlier and just suck up the quarantine fees, to accomodate her moving!

I"m bringing in a dog from a litter I bred in Canada, but I'm getting conflicting information as to exactly when I can ship her here based on things like date of rabies injection versus date of blood drawn for titres. Is there anyone out there that has imported recently that could offer up to date information on exactly when I can fly this dog out, and the requirements for quarantine based on the shots/titre testing? One import company has told me AFTER rabies, wait a month, do titres and then 60 days before you can import, and have 30 days quarantine...another company is telling me that it must be 150 days AFTER blood drawn for titres before shipping to have 30 days in quarantine....there is a huge difference between these answers. I have the AQIS forms, but they tend to not be clear on this (at least that I can sort through) Am hoping someone that has real life experience, might be able to offer up some info. Dog was born October 5th, had Rabies shot on February 8th and is going in this weekend to have blood titres drawn. (is this a case of me just being more patient??? My co breeder is caring for this dog, and is going to be doing a major move due to career in three months so I was really hoping to have this dog out of her hair to make her life easier as she's gone over and above already with this pup!)

I agree that loopholes need to be tightened...I don't think any ethical registered breeder would argue that and I agree that as the holes are found, ANKC needs to be made aware of them as weird as it sounds, often everyone else thinks someone has reported a problem when in fact, no one has said a word. Quite simply, the head office often isn't aware of the problems til someone speaks up. However don't kid yourself that Mr.Irrisponsible Breeder can't get his brother in law to cop up a certified copy of his DL....gotta remember, only honest people are concerned about this sort of thing....and most of these folks spin a good tale to anyone that will listen about how mean the ANKC and affiliated state registries are. I've heard it all before in reference to a breeder that was banned by the CKC for life...can never show in their system, nor breed dogs that are registered with them....so she registers (sometimes) with the UKC, the well reknowned 'we're register anything "registration"' and will shout to the rooftops that SHE is the one that chose to NOT use CKC because they wanted such things as limited registrations and that breeders should permanently identify (tattoo or chip) before the pups left the breeder and *gasp* make sure that buyers get registration papers as per canadian law.....you would not beleive how many people beleive this load of crap, and how many have stood in line to help this schyster!