angelsun

I was pleased as punch to be able to put my hands on both of these dogs over the weekend and meet their 'mom' LMWS as well. Was lovely to see the boy take out the junior in group (we got it on the friday with the other funny coloured shepherd!) Well done to all those involved with bringing in these lovely examples of the breed. Both are lovely and will offer a lot to the Australian breeding programs.

Can I ask who's giving/teaching? I'm always concerned about making sure the rules are followed so that we all are on the same page when it comes to it.

Unless you or the breeder has plans for a litter, there is no real good reason to allow her to remain entire. There are plenty of risks in doing so including pyometra (uterin infections) which can be silent and lethal when in closed form. Arguements are always out there that a bitch needs a season to mature correctly and be mentally more stable, but there are no documented facts that will stand by that statement. As an only dog in the family, yes it's possible to live with a bitch in season, but there are bitches that cycle every three/four months which is not only a pain for the owners to deal with, but very hard on the bitch. This is something to seriously consider when you are looking at the overall picture of the health of your dog.

I know of three Neo breeders in Victoria and can find out about more in NSW and SA. There certainly are a few around so that you wouldn't have to import. You are aware that the lifespan of this breed isn't the best on average? (thinking of the kids reacting to losing a dog again) Were you also aware of the special needs this breed can require for the simple things like eye care, and skin care? They are a nice breed in many ways, but seeing them and falling for them, and living with them are two different things. (yes I give this speech to everyone as it applies for every breed out there)

Looking forward to seeing you and your dogs there LMWS!

We got our numbers for Saturday in the mail today....hopefully the others come in tomorrows mail before we head out, but fortunately our mail mistress is very good about getting mail sorted quickly. Can I ask a dumb question from someone that is used to closing dates REALLY meaning that entries are closed....if a club is going to stick to a closing date, and I'm ALL for that, so no debate there....the idea being that we, the exhibitors get off our duffs and get our entries mailed in time to arrive PRIOR to the date listed as the cut off...then why are we continually getting numbers sent to us at the eleventh hour and in some cases, never arriving in time? Would it not be as courteous for the organizers if we get out entries in on time, to allow more than a few days (and the unsure schedule at times of Aussie Post) to get the numbers back to the exhibitors? Shows generally are slated to close three to four weeks in advance of the show...if these dates are adhered to, there is no reason that I can see, why numbers should not be in the hands of the exhibitors a week prior to the event. Am I missing some protocol here with this system?

Checks cashed here as well but no numbers today...hopefully tomorrow.

Waiting on our numbers and hoping they get here today or tomorrow as we are going up on Thursday. Hoping the weather behaves or we'll be changing plans and staying home in front of the warm wood stove instead of out tromping through mud and rain. (or at least I'll be pushing for that option!) PS..the pizza really that good?

I've also thought of pacing as the lazy gait and don't encourage it even at a walk. Pacing works different muscle groups than trotting (coming from a standard bred race horse background where I had both gaiters in my stable) so to build up a dog correctly, you must get them into the right gait. Pace is when both sides move forward together, that is the right front leg and right back leg reach forward at the same time, whilst the left front leg and left back leg are out back. It is a side to side motion which makes the back roll. The feet never risk touching as they move side to side at the same time. The trot however is a diagonal sequence with left front and right rear reaching forward whilst the right front and left rear are extended back. Although there are slightly different forms of a trotting gait (two beat and three beat and flying trot and double suspensions) that's basically the motion and leg action you want to see.

I agree with what's being said..I have small dogs and do NOT allow them to behave like snots and delinquents!! I am sick of what I call 'trolly' dogs at shows going off when anything on four legs walks past, and yet when one of our big dogs barks or even DOESNT bark, we hear comments about how aggressive or badly behaved they are, complete with the rolled eyes and snarky looks! It happens almost every weekend....comments about how our dogs will surely bark and carry on all weekend and by the end of that time, it's not our dogs carrying on...but theirs (non stop barking and lunging!) It's not acceptable for ANY dog to carry on that way, be it at a show or in public....small or large...same thing....and yes, for some reason, the small fluffies seem to be simply picked up and whisked away while the owner laughs or comments about how the behaviour was caused by some big dog at some point......hard to scoop up the adult great dane and do that sort of thing...and what about all the big dogs that have been scared sh*&^ess by some small snarky snappy thing.....apparently there is a double standard here. ETA: I watched a dog lunge at another at the shows recently....the recipient was a young and clearly unsure dog that was being socilized....after the lunge/bark/snarl..the owner pulled the lunging dog to them and patted them, cooing that it was 'all right' and to 'not be scared that dog was just being friendly' Great reward for bad behaviour to be coddled and patted....clearly the owners had no idea that they were doing everything to continue the bad behaviour!

I do not see anything wrong with what you are doing for you new pup. Crate training is amazing and I'm all for it....food change isn't a big drama if you go easy and pay attention to how it reacts to your dog. (would rather see you switch to raw/natural, but everyone has to do what they feel is best) This is YOUR dog now and although the breeder brought it into the world, they don't always know what is best. Angelsun A breeder who has seen many others still living in caves when it comes to how to manage the dogs they breed.

Friend of mine had semen relocated and was not informed and found out by ACCIDENT where it was....apparently the semen had been moved for some time....and yes we were told that GT really doesn't give a shit....why take over a business that deals in semen storage and services if this were the case? (I miss ICSB services!! and wish I could win the lottery and get this going for us) I'm SO glad I was dragging my heels about moving over my shipment from Spain! I've looked into local storage (much cheaper and just exactly the same enviroment) and will be sourcing out a competant vet when it comes time to use it.....such a shame that suddenly we breeders are dragged backwards. We have fantastic technology to use to breed with, in a place where importing is SO costly due to quarantine rules....and now we're being held back again....very frustrating!

The draw was held Sunday August 15th 2010 on behalf of the King Valley Kennel Club as a fundraiser for this new club. We are pleased to announce that the winner of the first place prize of a 30" LCD flat screen television was Sam Rossato of Myrtleford. (His Nanna bought the ticket for him!) Second prize of the home made dog treats, stained glass item and discount coupon for future work as well as some dog toys, was won by L. Edwards from Yass. We wish to thank all of those that bought tickets for this draw, and I"m happy to say we sold ALL the tickets we printed out, so it was a huge success. Every penny of the raffle tickets sold goes to help get the King Valley Kennel Club a bit closer to VCA affiliation and eventually to hold another set of conformation shows and obedience trials in Victoria's North East region! Thanks again for all your support. Angelsun (KVKC-Prez)

sorry which number ? sorry you are on 26 not 49 oops sorry. the rules don't say which return just that after the return the dog moves forward and doesn't sit...so I would do left but both are correct according to the rules That station 49 is excellant and is three steps backwards, which means both dog AND handler must walk backwards at least three steps, with the dog remaining in correct heel position. Dancers have no issues with this one...I personally suck at it (as do my dogs!)

It was just the do you allow the dog to lag behind and keep moving or do you pause while the dog lays down. Also with the back 1/2/3 I know it's call front. Step back dog steps with you while still in a front position it's just the end when you are moving the dog from the front. Handler must pause as the dog drops. This is not a like a moving stand where the handler continues after the dog stops....remember to pause so that the judge knows the exercise is finished. It only takes a second extra but not doing so, will result in dogs anticipating and popping up from the drop before their elbows touch the ground which results in a ten point hit as the dog has not completely dropped and therefore the station has not be completed correctly.

Exactly, as well, the dog should not stop before dropping. The ideal moving down has the dog IN MOTION slide to the drop position. Deductions occur for anything less than that.

It doesn't matter what you do to get your dog facing in the right direction. I often encourage people to do a finish and then heel forward, but you are not marked down for anything after your final 3rd step/sit. At that point, the exercise is completed and you simply move to the next one. There are many that just heel forward and let the dog fall into place. No deductions for that.

Want to add, those that honestly beleive a bitch in season shouldn't be shown either due to a risk of infection....I would love to see documentation on this...in ALL the time I've been showing, and showing bitches in estrus...I have NEVER had one of them pick up anything..however..I HAVE had bitch puppies with vaginitis or similar who have never been outside my own yard and are 3-5 months of age.... The arguement of a bitch in season with the alleged 'open cervix' amuses me all the time. As mentioned...females both human and otherwise continue to mingle with their own, subject themselves to possible contaminents and yet seem to handle it quite well. I don't think dog's on heat should be shown for the same reason you are not allowed to trial them. they distract the boys. but you see, I don't agree with that either...in my opinion...proof the males...I've had my share of stupid boys but have figured ways around it. no biggie..that goes for obedience as well. What about not letting the boys piss all over the posts on the way into the ring....that can be 'distracting' for a strong minded male.....never mind just rude and gross...but we see it all the time...how about people that exercise their dogs in the rings before the shows? There are FAR more important issues in my opinion than whether I choose to show my girl who is in season or not....some show like troopers, others stay home because they sulk....

K9: what happens if you dont have the tug handy? do you just feed your arm to the dog? How about realizing that tugging isn't always the BEST reward..there are others in case you weren't aware of that. K9: Yes absolutely, you may have missed my earlier post in this thread that identified why bites can happen, but the gloves are to use WHILST the dog is learning to target. that's funny as I haven't had to worry about that, and manage to teach targetting with my index finger and a pat on the head....clearly I must still be in the dark ages as you refer later in your reply K9: Mistakes happen, and when they do, protective clothing can be helpful and again, whilst handlers are learning to use a tug, these can be handy. Right tool for the right job....and I don't mean gloves...how about a bigger tug? K9: lol no band aid is what you use after you havent worn gloves lol... but seriously it isnt, this may be another case of "I havent tried it but it wont work because". My 6 yo does that with some foods I love how you consistantly put words in peoples mouths and claim that because someone disagrees with your methods, they are wrong or ignorant (def: not understanding) I have trained in schutzhund in case you missed that in my resume Some new (and old) handlers start to add avoidant steps into their tug work as they have been bitten a few times, the dog cues off this and starts aiming at the hands, this of course is a handler error but again, it does happen and wont happen when the handler starts with gloves. I'm not sure where you get that part from *dog starts aiming at hands* but if you beleive that to be true..so be it....in my opinion, it simply means the handler has moved ahead too quickly or used the wrong/incorrect size reward. K9: Correct, and some people are not comfortable because they are getting bitten during the learning phase, this leads to more poor tug handling. The gloves often produce a more relaxed handler. K9: I dont think anyone is saying, "wear these gloves and then let the dog bite your hands" but when you work multiple dogs as I do, dogs that are not mine, dogs that are untrained and puppies, bites will happen until the dog is taught to target better, in the interim, gloves. But you ARE in fact promoting the use of gloves, in fact you have people lined up to buy them if you get them in. How about instruction on how to target correctly without them? K9: Are we? says who? if we are then it may not be easy for them to teach their dogs to accurately target. I would also suggest that, Aussienot, Jeff Jones, Erny and Cosmolo arent average owners teaching their pets tug games.... Yes we are...although some as mentioned may be above average pet owners, these threads are read by MANY who are first time dog owners, moreso than those of us that have been around the block a time or two....first time pet owners NEED help to teach. Slapping a set of gloves on doesn't teach. K9: true, you will see in my post number 10 I have mentioned all of these things. K9: maybe the dog will respect your skin better when you do? and what sort of toys do we often give our dogs to chew on....rawhide leather chew bones etc.....sorry....can't agree there at all.....skin/flesh is different by smell/taste/texture and a dog knows this K9: OMG go back to the house and get them? gee.... you could also still just work without them, just as you do now... always the jokester....assuming we always train at home? Some of us do get out and for me, training happens all the time, not just in the back yard.....yes I work with out them but that is not the point of the statement...you imply that gloves should be mandatory and that without them, danger would happen....it's like those that choose to train ONLY using food rewards, wonder what happens when their pockets run dry? Protective clothes in any type of activity are smart, if I was using a grinder I could say "I would rather learn how to hold the grinder so it doesnt shoot crap in my eye" or just wear the glasses, all the arguments of "what happens if I leave my glasses at home" still are the same arent they? Put teh gloves in your gear bag with your tugs. I have played tug with dogs for 20 years plus, I can train a dog not to touch my hands, yes it isnt hard, once trained the dog will not target my hands, but he can still make a mistake or so can I. There are dogs that have learned to target the hands of the handler because it makes (or has made) the handler let go or react, these dogs need to be trained the rule that "you touch my hands the game ends". To teach them this, they have to touch your hands so that you may mark the event that you dont want to see. Our industry needs to come out of the dark ages and take care of handlers and dogs, gloves do both. I've never felt training dogs is an industry, nor do I feel that I am in the dark ages...I've used tried and true methods, without force or intimidation for years.....and I take the blame when my dogs make a mistake, because I trained them. If that is dark ages training....so be it...I'll be happy to stay in a cave and train this way, but I know that I won't need gloves for tugging and I won't lose any blood either. But Angelsun, no one is asking you to wear any... No, but your posts imply that anyone that does anything contrary to your methods, is archaic or just plain irresponsible *see above comment re: dark ages* I have tested a load of gloves from a few different industries, the tight fitting, highly protective non restricting ones that have beefed up protection in the high risk zones of the hand, work realy well! Try some gloves, it wont hurt! and in my opinion, it won't help.....

The question comes to mind....will these rules help or will they simply push a large number of people to drop their membership to their controlling body and breed anyway...seeing as these unregistered dogs will not be under the umbrella of people like the VCA? Sure they will not be able to show/trial....but the way many of the shows go and the blantent politics that happen (predetermined winners at 8am) Many are disillusioned now and ready to throw in the proverbial towel when it comes to dog shows. For those that truly adore their breed and want to protect it...a championship title isn't needed...good strong ethics to breed healthy dogs are.....being associated with the controling kennel registry won't stop people from breeding nice healthy dogs....suddenly those employed at our state registries may find they don't have the work load...and then *gasp* perhaps they won't have a job.....trickle down effect is amazing sometimes.

We asked the same thing and were told that no, Finley wasn't on this year.

And what about when you don't have these handy? Would it not make more sense to teach the dog to respect fingers and hands and not make the mistake? How about teaching the instigator of the tug or reward to not make the mistake of missing the target/handling the tug incorrectly etc which results in a nip? Putting protective clothing on (when not training sports like schutzhund), is a bandaid. If you as a handler are not uncomfortable, you will expect to see more nips/pinches which is in fact not creating a good behaviour for the dog. The dog MUST learn to respect hands and body parts, regardless of how high of a reward is offered. This goes along as well for those show dogs that snap at bait etc....it's not that hard to teach them how to respect fingers and stop snapping, just as it's not hard to teach dogs to not miss the toy reward. We are talking about the average owner, rewarding their dog with a tug or play remember! Important to remember that most handlers are not using the appropriate sized toy for the size of dog they are rewarding. That's HANDLER error and not the dogs. I would much rather teach the dog to respect my skin, than worry about whether I had my leather protective gloves on, or worse, have to say to the dog "sorry, I can't play with you, I forgot my gloves in the house."

After almost three years of misses and absorbtions, I had two litters two days apart...reason..I figured one bitch would miss as was happening...as fate allowed..both had pups. It's a case of simply being able to manage them...some breeders barely handle one litter, but a friend of mine had three within two weeks of each other and managed so easily. I was set up to manage two litters at the same time...not my idea of fun, but I did it from time to time as my girls tended to cycle at the same time as often happens. I would MUCH rather have two decent litters at the same time than one year where I ended up having four litters from January to December in the calendar year....all spaced nicely apart and without incident...now THAT was exhausting....I had a long period where I'd not had pups and had a long period after that I didn't breed....yes there were a few that snorted the words puppy farmer..so be it..I know what I am and how I breed and the ethics I carry....in this game, someone will always disagree no matter what you do, and others won't have any issues...the only one I have to satisfy is myself that I have done everything I could for my breeding program, no one else matters and I simply don't listen to the gossip that comes along regardless of what happens.

Ah...ok, this isn't what is being said....like most stories it's changed from the facts (as seen above) to a shortened version which states that ALL dogs exported from here MUST be desexed and that no breeding animals will be able to be sent overseas to anyone.

The latest to come off the rumour mill and is currently circulating around North America....Proposed rules from here in Australia that if any dog is exported, they MUST be desexed prior to exportation. Anyone heard anything about this nonsense?