angelsun

Why bother to have big books of rules, when either people ignore them, break them or those that do follow, can do nothing to correct those that won't? Remember, dog shows were originally designed to judge BREEDING stock...if it can't be bred from, it doesn't belong in competition unless a specific class is offered. I would love to see hair samples taken to enforce the 'foreign substance' rule...shall we start with the poodles/shihtzu and many terriers of wire coat?

GIPFEL German Shepherds announces the arrival of Kes' pups on January 1st. She's still whelping so numbers shortly, but so far 1 b/t boy, 1 sable boy, 1 sable girl. We think there is at least four more in there. Dam: Ch.Gipfel Black Forest [A][Z] Sire: Ch.Ramorra Warp Core Reaction [A][Z] *update* 3 sable bitches-1 black/tan bitch 2 black/tan dogs-2 sable dogs

And a lot of people tag that label to themselves because they THINK they deserve it after giving a few obedience classes. Be wary of anyone that slaps any 'superior' sort of title to their name. Good trainers don't need titles, they just get results.

I will be going for Luna's championship title Working towards getting Angel ready for CCD and preparing for the upcoming Rally titles that will be available soon! I have plans for a litter out of M I will be bringing in an import I will be bringing in some semen from dogs I've bred that live around the world

What is the cost for the testing? I agree that some purebred breeders of some of these listed breeds should get a few dogs done without mentioning anything about their pedigree. What a cash grab for people simply feeling the need for having a 'breed' name to their mutt...if they really wanted that, they'd stop buying 'designer dogs' and go for a dog with a pedigree history.

Definately would want to know.....buyers are getting smart, they know the answers we want to hear....and they can keep giving us those answers for a long time and in the mean time, the damage is done.

I would ask if there is an interest in the newly developed 'dog rug' Covers the floor nicely by command, adds warmth to any decor and doesn't need vaccuuming (tell it to go out and shake)This is the older model, but new colours are currently in the works.

Parvo is always 'around' unfortunately, we get lulled into a false sense of security because we don't hear of cases and think it's not out there, and poof..when we do hear, now it's 'around'. Hence the reason why there is no point getting bent out of shape about it really....I can bring it home from a dog show, or the supermarket. that is the reality. There is no higher risk at a dog show than a parking lot. Remember, the MAJORITY of the dogs attending shows are fit and healthy and innoculated....the dogs that stroll through the carparks and on the sidewalks may not be so.....where is the bigger potential risk then?

Correction: German Shepherds are GIPFEL and my name ends with an n ;)

I have a friend that did that test just to see what was what and came back that her GSD rescue is actually mostly Tibetan Terrier.....waste of money if you ask me...

Yes the Manchester should have pencilling on the toes as well. As for Hackney....what's up with the FCI where it's not permitted? I have been told this and am shocked as I thought it was the hallmark for the breed? German Pinschers CAN have pencilling on the toes but it's not really desired and no, we don't want hackney but boy, we have some good ones out there!

Do you not get that some breeds colour IS one trait of the dog? I hope that people like you stay out of my breed, so it can continue to function the way it has for many many years and there is no chance of people trying to make a quick buck by basterdising the breed with inferior quality dogs of disqualified colours. A disqualified colour does not make for an "inferior" dog and it is certainly not a "bastard" either. It's the same in GSD where the occasional white pup appears, most breeders would baulk at that and perhaps opt to cull it but at the end of the day it is still very much a GSD with the same traits and temperament and guard dog abilities as your typical black and tan, for example. That is what I am trying to say....dogs of a disqualified colour can still 'FUNCTION'....THEY may not attract ducks (STILL not convinced of that one, lol) in the case of tollers but for those not interested in that field what does it matter if ducks are not going to take solace in red tollers? I beleive Von Stephanitz stated "there was no wrong colour GSD" It's the breed fancy that determines the acceptable colours and usually comes up with a reason for them. Yes the Toller of another colour could RETRIEVE them, and would do so with gusto, however what has been stated is true. The "little river duck dog" as it is also known was bred specifically as a lure in colour and actions, much like a fishermans lure. Lets face it, a plain worm will catch a fish, but a lure specifically designed to attract specific fish works much better, and this is in effect what the Toller is in all sense of the word. Although they make a great pet, the breed primarily is used for what it was designed for, and the bright red with white markings are in fact a hallmark of the breed. To lose this, would be to lose the essence of the breed. To the uninformed, colour may see inconsequential, but to the breed fancy, who have taken the time to learn the breed history and why it is what it is, they appreciate the strict guidelines often put in place for something as simple as colour, to keep the breed as it was intended when developed. We see the black sammy for example, but although it's interesting, it's not desired for many reasons...remember where this dog lived/lives? Sure a black one can pull a sled, warm its master and check for cracks in the ice with its sensitive feet.....but the white fur was selected for a purpose. The same with the Westies when the white coats helped keep these small hunters from accidently being shot because they blended into the terrain like their beige and brindle relatives the Cairn. I used to get into great discussions with Manchester breeders that dismissed the lack of thumbprints as an issue, stating it was only one simple thing and just not important....they are wrong in my opinion. That little black smudge on the front of the wrist, labelled a hallmark of the breed, defines them as a breed and separates them from being just another generic black and tan sleek small dog. For the Min Pin, to have thumbprints is a fault (DQ? not sure on that one) As for other oddities, anyone got a photo of a sable headed white collie rough? Highly desired in North America but I believe not accepted here? I have friends in the breed working their whole lives to breed them with success. I personally don't care for them but I'm not a collie person either! I have a friend that bred a lovely little Silky Terrier, normally tan with the steel blue overcoat, this one was red and tan.It's siblings all the normal colour for the breed. We often are told by those that don't know, that our Sable GSD's are riddled with health issues....this often from the die hard black and tan crowd. But we also know that there is colour paling in Shepherds, as well there is a bright orange where it should be tan or gold. I've been loving the photos....some great ones I never realized existed! Keep 'em coming!

I have been meaning to ask about your Greys Greytmate, they are stunning . My contribution is dapple Daschunds..... They arnt rare, and u can show dapples.. Double Dapples are more uncommon and now not acceptable in the USA which in my opinion is a shame.

Solid red like Min Pins, not the bi colour like Dobes (that call them red) Our breed, brought back from the brink of extinction in the mid 1950's did so by the use of a chocolate/tan min pin named Onzo along with some others. Introduction of the dilute gene came about ten years later when a red min pin was used again to help build pedigree and poof....fawn came out....we test for dilute now in hopes we don't get them as blues are full of both internalhealth issues and massive coat issues. Fawns are beginning to show a disturbing amount of liver and kidney issues which are fatal.

She is a lovely girl, I think she's gorgeous too. They were parked next to me at a trial when she was a little puppy :D I have seen some rare colours in Tenties (I believe it was called a dilute fawn?) but can't find any pictures :D The only colour Manchester Terrier I can find apart from Black & Tan is blue: There is quite a history to this photo. This blue dog was shown at a specialty in the states BEFORE they changed the standard to read that ONLY Black with Tan/Red markings was the only acceptable colour. The dog was not awarded however could not be disqualified as there was no DQ for colour at that time. It didn't take long for the AMTC to bring in that little blurb. The breeder of this dog did attempt to produce a line for a while and many got onto it right off and soon the line died out (thankfully)

Mismarked tri Aussie Shepherd (she was mine and her name was Glory) Chocolate German Pinscher(right and sitting beside her litter brother who's black/tan). Four colours permitted here, only two in Canada (thank goodness!) Here are all four accepted colours in the states and Australia. Dilutes are riddled with health issues but they keep insisting on breeding with them and for them

May I ask why some of you suspect your bitch to be in less risk taking her for good long walks on public footpaths compared to a show grounds or other such place? This falls in line with the Parvo issue where many beleive that they can't pick it up on simple errands to a shop for example, walking where an infected or carrying host may have sat tied to the post waiting for its master? Again I stress I don't think whelping at shows should be condoned, however there are always situations that many do not know, and no, it's not always black and white in these things. I've taken my share of preggy girls along, because they were far less stressed by being with me and coddled than left at home with my very competant son who's whelped litters before, many times. I do my best to figure out when the bitches are due but for example we have now, a bitch we feel is due, but have no real clue as to when. We have a window of about 10 days based on AI's and natural matings, simply because she leveled out (we feel, not based on actual progesterone testing however) but on days in season, and the males nose. Even just going by the count on days she was mated naturally, we have over a week of unsurity as to actual delivery date. As for the rule about no bitches over six weeks pregnant being to shows.....we don't ultrasound the big girls, and most of our girls don't show until they are at least 7-8 weeks as they are deep ribbed and carry high....to look at our girl at six weeks from the first mating, you would no indication she was pregnant what so ever. Will we be soon required to prove our bitches are NOT pregnant to be permitted to have them at show grounds? Although there are always exceptions to the rule, the majority of people that show/breed are more than competant to know whether they should be there in the first place or not.....the high number of posts have indicated that in this thread alone. Because they choose to do things one way, will they chastise anyone that does not abide by their practices? I have no issues with visitors for my new pups, and yes, my breed is very suceptable to Parvo, however the benefits of socializing with strangers in my opinion, far outweigh any possible risk due to my vaccine protocols. Because this does not go along with some people (my OH included) that will allow no visitors before the first injection, will I be painted with the incompetant brush?

I agree with you with this analogy...as well as those that commented about the bitches whelping under the porch and all went well. With the number of capable hands at a show, what better place to get help....those of us in the game long enough have probably had some vets that don't know what our peers at the shows know, when it comes to whelping a bitch! As for dogs at shown who are not entered....can someone find the definition of "precincts" regarding the show? This must mean the spectators walking their mixed breed fluffies must be asked in future to leave dog shows. CKC boundaries for official shows were 10 feet outside the building (if held indoors) and 30 feet around the rings. We had someone once try to stop people taking extra dogs/pups etc to the shows (outside) only to be told that since the show was on a public area, they couldn't enforce anything.

I have seen a few litters born in the parking lot of shows both in Canada and the States...no, it's not really allowed either, and yes, it's frowned upon....however...why would it jeopardise or create Council havoc if done by a competant person? We see PLENTY of morons attempting to whelp bitches in their homes, only to have catastrophic problems due to inexperience. I'm not saying I"m in favour of a bunch of bitches whelping at shows, but I"m also not going to say that the moment I mate a bitch, she and myself remain home with her wrapped in bubble wrap. As I mentioned, I got almost got caught once....24 hours.....and recently we had a litter where the bitch was a week to go, gave no signs of any impending labour/delivery and whelped her first pup on the back porch with the gang watching. It was only the squeek of the pup that gave indication (as it was dark) At least at a show, perhaps there would be less chance to go hide under a porch or in some far corner of the yard if an early whelping happened. I would say, that no fingers should be pointed too harshly in the OP's situation as no one here other than perhaps them, knows the circumstances of the whelping.

It does happen....I almost got caught with a bitch that was due late the following week....took her with me to keep watch, when I set up my stuff on the Friday evening....was at the show on Saturday and my son was on whelp watch, only to call me to say she'd started...clearly she didn't read the gestation calendar I stuffed in front of her nose after the mating was done!

I'm sure there is a rule because isn't there a rule about taking pups to shows under a certain age? However if the bitch decided to whelp early (as can often happen) it could be quite unexpected and best to finish the job in one spot, regardless of where it is, than dash home in what often is hours long drive, leaving a bitch to whelp in the back seat or a trailer.

I'm not sure what happened...I thought I had converted the PDF file.....it's too big to load...anyone wants it...email me [email protected] Sorry..will try to sort it out and post if I can!

I wanted to add for clarification on the speed change as the last station before the finish.....because you NEVER count the Start/Finish as stations, this is why you can do this. Remember, neither Start, nor Finish is numbered. although you must remember to keep the signs on your right and failing to do this, you can be deducted a maximum of 10 points for handler error, they are not counted as stations. This allows the speed change to sit at the final (numbered) station and thus allow the team to pass the Finish at the speed indicated.

Agreed...as many that come under my pen can attest....this isn't designed to be an easier form of obedience, nor was or is it designed to be the slack 'fun' sport that many places are making it out to be by adding 'fun' stations (or pet tricks in some cases) this has always been intended to work with traditional obedience, enhancing the experience for both the Rally teams and the Obedience teams...it's always important to remember that the name Rally-O stands for Rally OBEDIENCE. Unfortunately we still will have a number of traditional obedience instructors and judges that can not or will not see the value in another sport such as this. We have a big climb ahead of us to encourage these people to open their eyes and see the possibilities that this sport offers everyone. Attached for interest are the ANKC draft for Rally rules..with very few exceptions it's the canadian kennel Club rules ANKC_Draft_Rally.txt

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